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DarkJedi664
08-08-06, 01:17 PM
Ok, so I have a few of my friends who have recently purchased Opteron 165's; and claim they can easily OC to 3.0Ghz (becuase of the certain stepping). They also claim that performance is GREAT at those speeds. Now what I'm wondering is, how would an overclocked Opteron (at FX60 speeds) actually perform against an FX60? My other friend isn't believing the "hype" and that a FX60 will be faster no matter what. I'm honestly not sure anymore as I haven't seen any specific benchmarks where they overclock the 165 to 60 speeds. Now if it WAS faster, how and why would AMD be selling a chip for $300 that can easily match or beat the performance of their $800 CPU? If anyone can shed some light on this, I'd appreciate it.

Bearclaw
08-08-06, 02:08 PM
Ok, so I have a few of my friends who have recently purchased Opteron 165's; and claim they can easily OC to 3.0Ghz (becuase of the certain stepping). They also claim that performance is GREAT at those speeds. Now what I'm wondering is, how would an overclocked Opteron (at FX60 speeds) actually perform against an FX60? My other friend isn't believing the "hype" and that a FX60 will be faster no matter what. I'm honestly not sure anymore as I haven't seen any specific benchmarks where they overclock the 165 to 60 speeds. Now if it WAS faster, how and why would AMD be selling a chip for $300 that can easily match or beat the performance of their $800 CPU? If anyone can shed some light on this, I'd appreciate it.

I can't shed any light on that for you but it certainly is very interesting.

JayG30
08-08-06, 02:35 PM
This might be a good read...http://forums.amd.com/index.php?showtopic=60249

I haven't used the opteron CPU's but I remember a while back discussing this with people. They are very good processors but I don't know about hitting FX-60 specs on the opteron 165. Don't they fall more in line with the upper end X2 line maybe even lower?

JayG30
08-08-06, 02:55 PM
I wanted to add this link for you too http://forums.amd.com/index.php?showtopic=61008&hl=. Specifically read post #47 at the end. He basically says his 165 opteron is around a 4400+ and to reach FX-57 levels you would need a higher end opteron processor.

So IMO (unless I'm missing somethign here) is that a opteron 165 will fall short of an FX-60 and from what I see will not hit 3Ghz as your friends are suggesting. if they are hitting 3Ghz then all bets are off, but with my 5 minute search I did not find anything like that. But for the record there is no difference between the opteron processors and the athlon series of processors. At least none that make a significant difference.

Riptide
08-08-06, 04:04 PM
There is no such thing as a guaranteed overclock IME. I would never assume that every Opteron 165 will hit 3.0 and pass Prime.

DarkJedi664
08-08-06, 04:08 PM
I never said EVERY, I said if you have a specific stepping (CCBWE I think), you are almost guaranteed 3.0Ghz. But even at 2.6, does it match the performance of an FX60?

Riptide
08-08-06, 04:10 PM
No but when you don't have something in the statement you made like "most of" or "nearly all" then the way that reads is that yes, pretty much they all do.

Regardless I'm glad we're on the same page now.

BTW how do you like your X-Plosion?

DarkJedi664
08-08-06, 04:31 PM
I just mainly want to see actual benchmarks comparing the two :\

I LOVE my XPlosion actually. I'm only using them with my Z-5500's, and would sound SO much better on a high quality receiver, but it sounds great on my Logitechs. What's great is, since most games support at least some sort of surround audio, it takes that, pumps it up to DTS 5.1 at full 1.5Mbps. Sounds so much better than regular audio. Listening to music is DTS is loud for sure, but listening to music at 96/24 stereo makes the music a whole lot better to listen to as all music (besides the crappy SACD, and DVDA) is stereo. I wouldn't get the XPlosion now as they are coming out with a much better card in the next couple months :D

JayG30
08-08-06, 04:44 PM
It's hard finding benchmarks on opterons.

If you can actually find an opteron with the correct stepping and hit similar clock speeds as an FX-60 there will be little to no difference in performance. I did a little more searching and found that there are in fact a few people reaching high 2.8GHz+ stable with the correct stepping. I'm not sure which are best though as I've never used one. What I'm not sure of is are these dual-core or single-core hitting these numbers?

EDIT: to add to the endless list of links I've posted here is another...http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=28&threadid=1798849. Not benchmarks but like I said I can't seem to find any of those, just a lot of discussion.

DarkJedi664
08-08-06, 04:55 PM
GRRRR that's exactly what I'm talking about. I see all these posts saying they get 60 speeds or higher, but nothing about actual performance, and game performance. I paid $500 for my 60, but selling that and getting a 165 for $300 (and hopefully get the right stepping), might just be the best thing. Sure I don't have an unlocked multi (or would I?), but I think the whole appeal of the FX series is just the name and "look, I have a $1000 CPU". If I can find actual benchmark scores showing that a 165 can meet or beat a 60, I will buy one right away.

shungokusatsu
08-08-06, 05:18 PM
GRRRR that's exactly what I'm talking about. I see all these posts saying they get 60 speeds or higher, but nothing about actual performance, and game performance. I paid $500 for my 60, but selling that and getting a 165 for $300 (and hopefully get the right stepping), might just be the best thing. Sure I don't have an unlocked multi (or would I?), but I think the whole appeal of the FX series is just the name and "look, I have a $1000 CPU". If I can find actual benchmark scores showing that a 165 can meet or beat a 60, I will buy one right away.
It's like that with all cpu's, it's even been shown that the lower end e6400's can be o/ced and smoke the x6800. Will that stop people who know this and save them $700-$800? Nope, I still plan on getting an x6800 when I can find one not overpriced, then I'm gonna vapochill the hell out of it.

JayG30
08-08-06, 05:19 PM
Well the reason benchmarks are hard to find for the opteron is because it was never marketed as a mainstream or gaming CPU. They were initially marketed for servers. But people immediately noticed that there was really no difference except for better pricing and actually more stable cpu's.

Check www.extremesystems.org as they have tons of information on opteron. For instance here are two stickied links there http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=75211 and http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=96900
The second link there will give you a list of which steppings are good and which to avoid for all dual core opterons.

There not benchmarks run by websites but there benchmarks none the less and are probably less biased and more informative. Hope that helps. :)

DarkJedi664
08-08-06, 05:26 PM
Oh man :( such temptations :( I'm so tempted to sell my FX60, and get a 165, AND the DFI Expert board as well, AND have money left over, lol.

JayG30
08-08-06, 05:50 PM
It would still be cheaper to sell your current setup and go Conroe. :p

I know you don't want to hear it and won't do it but it's well within reach if you sell the cpu, board, and ram. It's funny that for $250 you can get a e6400 that will outperform both those cpu's. :)

Here is a little read for you just for kicks...http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=103239. But I realize there is probably no hope getting you to convert.

lukrad
08-08-06, 07:39 PM
Oh man :( such temptations :( I'm so tempted to sell my FX60, and get a 165, AND the DFI Expert board as well, AND have money left over, lol.

You got be kidding me...

Dude get second 7900GT card...you don't need Opteron 165 over FX60

Bearclaw
08-08-06, 10:27 PM
You got be kidding me...

Dude get second 7900GT card...you don't need Opteron 165 over FX60

Just get a conroe if your going to be upgrading at all.

a12ctic
08-08-06, 10:59 PM
It would still be cheaper to sell your current setup and go Conroe. :p

I know you don't want to hear it and won't do it but it's well within reach if you sell the cpu, board, and ram. It's funny that for $250 you can get a e6400 that will outperform both those cpu's. :)

Here is a little read for you just for kicks...http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=103239. But I realize there is probably no hope getting you to convert.
really? i havnt seen the 6400 beating the fx 60, i havnt seen the 6400 beating anything above the 4400+, this post is retarded, you do realise that new ram, mobo, and cpu will cost a lot more in the end.

JayG30
08-08-06, 11:14 PM
really? i havnt seen the 6400 beating the fx 60, i havnt seen the 6400 beating anything above the 4400+, this post is retarded, you do realise that new ram, mobo, and cpu will cost a lot more in the end.


Very cute. Name calling, how mature of you.

I've read over the countless benchmarks and it clearly notes in many that even the e6300 has taken quite a few tests away from even the highest AMD processors.

As far as price goes I know that new ram, mobo, and cpu would be more expensive then a straight cpu upgrade. What I SAID was that the CPU (got that?) is cheaper then both. I never said anything about the rest. But I would be willing to bet taht he could easily get the moeny needed for a new mobo, ram, and CPU if he sold his current setup.

EDIT: let me even go out of my damn way and quote for you...

From anandtech
Overclocking changes everything though, as our 2.592GHz E6300 ended up faster than AMD's FX-62 in almost every single benchmark.

I'm not saying that it will destroy it but it will defenitly be on the same playing field.

a12ctic
08-09-06, 12:05 AM
ya, because its not possible to overclock amd chips? if you get a fancy cooler and good ram you can overclock just as good, sorry to break your bubble :(

Bearclaw
08-09-06, 12:10 AM
ya, because its not possible to overclock amd chips? if you get a fancy cooler and good ram you can overclock just as good, sorry to break your bubble :(

Haha, you guys are arguing like first graders. :thumbdwn:

JayG30
08-09-06, 12:11 AM
ya, because its not possible to overclock amd chips? if you get a fancy cooler and good ram you can overclock just as good, sorry to break your bubble :(

Never said you couldn't. I can't find the article but I remember reading it and it specifically stated that even with an overclocked FX-62 the overclocked E6400 was right on par and sometimes faster then it.

Regardless you calling me names for making a statement is not needed. He is talking about swapping his CPU for something of similar performance. I simply stated that I thought it was funny that a similar performing CPU, the E6400, was cheaper then both the opteron and FX-60 at current time.

If you have a problem with that then we can discuss it via PM. I was not and will not polute this thread any more. I offered help to the original poster the best I could. If you are unhappy with my ability to help him then maybe you should have. But in either case don't treat me like some punk kid or fanboy who you think you can try and throw insults at. I won't take them lightly like others around here might.

DarkJedi664
08-09-06, 09:08 AM
First off, I refuse to buy Conroe because I wont see ANY performance difference, and also because I don't like Intel after them screwing me with the P4. And second, why waste money on a second card when the G80 is coming out in September? I'm not getting in an arguement over Conroe as that's NOT what this thread is about.

I'm honestly thinking about selling my 60 and getting a 165 and the Expert board. Why? Because if the 165 can OC to 2.6 and get the EXACT same performance of a 60, but be $500 cheaper? Why not get it? Plus I'll still have money left over.

JayG30
08-09-06, 09:20 AM
First off, I refuse to buy Conroe because I wont see ANY performance difference, and also because I don't like Intel after them screwing me with the P4. And second, why waste money on a second card when the G80 is coming out in September? I'm not getting in an arguement over Conroe as that's NOT what this thread is about.

I'm honestly thinking about selling my 60 and getting a 165 and the Expert board. Why? Because if the 165 can OC to 2.6 and get the EXACT same performance of a 60, but be $500 cheaper? Why not get it? Plus I'll still have money left over.

Thats if you can sell the FX and sell it for waht you want. I don't know how easy or hard thats going to be.

Again I was not trying to make anyone go conroe. But when you are comparing a 165 to your FX-60 to get the same performance I thought it might be informative for you to know there are other options. Why do I think conroe might be a smart move? Well if you sell your current AMD rig you will get more for it now then you will later. With that money you could easily get a conroe setup that performs at the same level. Then when you want to sell and upgrade again you will most likely get back more for your money on selling the conroe rig a year from now then if you try to sell your AMD rig a year from now.

I was NOT trying to make anyone do anything. Just share some knowledge. I don't care if you want to do it or not. Thats none of my buisness. but the option is there so I commented BREIFLY on it.

It all comes down to what your plans are. When do you plan to upgrade if at all? Do you plan to sell your current rig? What will you be happiest with? These are all answers I can't answer but I feel that listing ALL options regardless of fanboyism is the best thing to do so you cna make the best performance/price decisions.

I stand with my comments. Your options still remain to stay with your FX-60 which is a very good CPU. Change over to a Opty that will hopefully perform on par with your current CPU and sell the FX-60 for HOPEFULLY more then what the opty cost (this IMO is the key factor to if its worth it or not). Or sell your current setup and go with a Conroe that performs equally well so that you cna get the most money out of your current rig now (which all depends on your long term plans with your current and future PC's).

Riptide
08-09-06, 09:23 AM
The best price on pricewatch for the 165 is $265.

I wouldn't give anyone more than $325 for an FX60 when you can get a brand new retail 4800+ X2 for $310.

ViN86
08-09-06, 09:34 AM
GRRRR that's exactly what I'm talking about. I see all these posts saying they get 60 speeds or higher, but nothing about actual performance, and game performance. I paid $500 for my 60, but selling that and getting a 165 for $300 (and hopefully get the right stepping), might just be the best thing. Sure I don't have an unlocked multi (or would I?), but I think the whole appeal of the FX series is just the name and "look, I have a $1000 CPU". If I can find actual benchmark scores showing that a 165 can meet or beat a 60, I will buy one right away.
you wouldnt have an unlocked multi with an opteron. so, you might not be able to hit the 3GHz if your board cant hit a HTT speed high enough. for an 11x multi, youd need about 275-280 on your mobo. your asus might not hit it.

id test it before taking the plunge.