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View Full Version : Microsoft confirms XBOX 360 HD DVD addon decodes Dolby TrueHD 5.1 Lossless audio!


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Ruined
08-22-06, 06:42 PM
Color me impressed. While Toshiba's HD-A1 firmware 2.0 upgrade to be released this week will reportedly upgrade that unit to decode Dolby TrueHD 5.1 Lossless audio, Microsoft has just confirmed that the HD DVD addon for the XBOX 360 will decode Dolby TrueHD 5.1 lossless audio as well!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8214978&&#post8214978

Note that the cheapest Blu-Ray player that is slated to decode TrueHD 5.1 Lossless audio costs $1299.

evilchris
08-22-06, 06:48 PM
Hm, we still need a way to get it to our receivers ( at least 7.1 ). I have 7.1 inputs on my Denon but no player with decoding has 7.1 analog outs. My Toshiba only has 5.1 analog outs.....

Unfortunately when the signal goes over HDMI it is not decoded, your receiver would have to, which none do.

Ruined
08-22-06, 06:55 PM
Hm, we still need a way to get it to our receivers ( at least 7.1 ). I have 7.1 inputs on my Denon but no player with decoding has 7.1 analog outs. My Toshiba only has 5.1 analog outs.....

Unfortunately when the signal goes over HDMI it is not decoded, your receiver would have to, which none do.

Not true.

The Toshiba HD-A1 decodes the TrueHD 5.1 signal internally, then re-encodes the decoded output into lossless 24bit/96khz multichannel PCM for transmission over the HDMI 1.1 output; your receiver as long as it supports 24/96 & HDMI will be able to decode the HDMI PCM signal and you will get the full effect.

Similarly, the analog 5.1 outputs can be used as you mentioned.

While there are no HD DVD that can output 7.1 yet, 99% of movie sound masters are actually equivalent to 5.1ch 24bit/48khz digital. In addition, 7.1 was originally only designed for very wide commercial theaters in order to provide surround for the middle section without blasting out the side sections; home theaters are not large enough to have this issue, therefore 5.1 will sound just as good (or better, as 7.1 can localize the surround field).

evilchris
08-22-06, 07:00 PM
Not true.

The Toshiba HD-A1 decodes the TrueHD 5.1 signal internally, then re-encodes the decoded output into lossless 24bit/96khz multichannel PCM for transmission over the HDMI 1.1 output; your receiver as long as it supports 24/96 & HDMI will be able to decode the HDMI PCM signal and you will get the full effect.

Similarly, the analog 5.1 outputs can be used as you mentioned.

While there are no HD DVD that can output 7.1 yet, 99% of movie sound masters are actually equivalent to 5.1ch 24bit/48khz digital. In addition, 7.1 was originally only designed for very wide commercial theaters in order to provide surround for the middle section without blasting out the side sections; home theaters are not large enough to have this issue, therefore 5.1 will sound just as good (or better, as 7.1 can localize the surround field).

I disagree, Ruined, I'll look for supporting evidence. There is no way to get DTS HD to a receiver over a digital connection at this time and have all 6 channels discrete.

npras42
08-22-06, 07:09 PM
Right, this is not intended to be the start of a flame war, nor a massive veering of the topic off course. Just a simple question, which hopefully someone could answer:

Does the/Will the Blu-Ray format support this? Will the PS3 be able to do it?

I have an X360 but I will never buy the HD-DVD add-on. I would rather wait till the format war is over, and by then the stand-alones will probably not cost quite so much.

I will however, by default own a Blu-Ray player within 6-9 months when I buy a PS3. So it would be good to know.

Ruined
08-22-06, 07:19 PM
I disagree, Ruined, I'll look for supporting evidence. There is no way to get DTS HD to a receiver over a digital connection at this time and have all 6 channels discrete.

Read my posts, I am talking 5.1 as it was indicated in the original topic. 99% of movies original masters are discrete 5.1, not 6.1. There are a handful of movies that actually have true 6.1 masters.

That being said, using the Toshiba HD-A1, you can get 5.1 TrueHD lossless audio via HDMI - the Toshiba decodes the TrueHD 5.1 stream internally then re-encodes it to lossless 5.1 24/96 PCM for output over HDMI to your receiver. Of course, you can also use the analog 5.1 outputs to get full resolution TrueHD5.1 from the HD-A1 much like you would multichannel DVD-Audio/SACD.

Ruined
08-22-06, 07:24 PM
Right, this is not intended to be the start of a flame war, nor a massive veering of the topic off course. Just a simple question, which hopefully someone could answer:

Does the/Will the Blu-Ray format support this? Will the PS3 be able to do it?

There is a large difference between supporting TrueHD5.1 and decoding it. Supporting it means you will pass the signal digitally undecoded, as the PS3 will via HDMI 1.3 - requiring a brand new $1000 HDMI 1.3/TrueHD5.1 multichannel receiver to hear it. Note that even if you had the cash receivers that support this standard won't be available until 2007.

Decoding it as the Toshiba HD-A1 w/fw2.0 (http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/08/08/hd-dvd-2-0-firmware-soon-enables-truehd-5-1/) (also here (http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/08/20/hd-dvd-2-0-firmware-to-be-released-on-tuesday/)) and now XBOX 360 do means you can run it to your current receiver via analog 5.1 or HDMI and get lossless truehd 5.1 without dropping a grand on a new receiver.


I have an X360 but I will never buy the HD-DVD add-on. I would rather wait till the format war is over, and by then the stand-alones will probably not cost quite so much.

I will however, by default own a Blu-Ray player within 6-9 months when I buy a PS3. So it would be good to know.

According to the current official specs, in addition to the PS3 you will need to buy a $999+ receiver that has an HDMI 1.3 connection and TrueHD 5.1 decoding when they are released next year in order to get TrueHD 5.1 out of a PS3. The cheapest Blu-Ray player that actually decodes TrueHD5.1 is the $1299 Panasonic DMP-BD10 - over double the price of the HD-A1 or 360+HD DVD.

In other words, you are getting a lot more bang for your buck with the HD-A1/360 HD DVD in terms of nextgen sound formats as you can use your current receiver to get full resolution TrueHD5.1 so long as it has 5.1 analog inputs or HDMI.

Masq
08-22-06, 07:32 PM
Thank you, very informative. We will see how the PS3 pans out.

evilchris
08-22-06, 07:40 PM
Hm, sucks for the PS3 as the "be all end all HD experience". The new sound formats are freaking awesome. Video is not the only thing HD is about.

evilchris
08-22-06, 07:42 PM
Read my posts, I am talking 5.1 as it was indicated in the original topic. 99% of movies original masters are discrete 5.1, not 6.1. There are a handful of movies that actually have true 6.1 masters.

That being said, using the Toshiba HD-A1, you can get 5.1 TrueHD lossless audio via HDMI - the Toshiba decodes the TrueHD 5.1 stream internally then re-encodes it to lossless 5.1 24/96 PCM for output over HDMI to your receiver. Of course, you can also use the analog 5.1 outputs to get full resolution TrueHD5.1 from the HD-A1 much like you would multichannel DVD-Audio/SACD.

I wasn't aware of v2.0 as far as decoding.

I don't care however what "99% of masters are". I care about what my system supports, which is 7.1. I don't mind the mono rear ( 6.1 ), but am tired of 5.1 with a matrix'd rear channel.

Ruined
08-22-06, 07:50 PM
I wasn't aware of v2.0 as far as decoding.

I don't care however what "99% of masters are". I care about what my system supports, which is 7.1. I don't mind the mono rear ( 6.1 ), but am tired of 5.1 with a matrix'd rear channel.

I actually avoid 6.1 like the plague as I feel it is just a gimmick Dolby used to attempt to one-up DTS when DD was losing popularity in the high-end crowd; also to help THX regain its fame with THX EX. Of course, DTS one-upped DD with DTS-ES discrete 6.1.

IMO, you are actually harming the surround field with the use of rear channels in a home theater - too many surround speakers that muddle and localize the surround channel. That's a debate for a different thread though. :)

evilchris
08-22-06, 07:51 PM
I actually avoid 6.1 like the plague as I feel it is just a gimmick Dolby used to attempt to one-up DTS when DD was losing popularity in the high-end crowd; also to help THX regain its fame with THX EX. Of course, DTS one-upped DD with DTS-ES discrete 6.1.

IMO, you are actually harming the surround field with the use of rear channels in a home theater - too many surround speakers that muddle and localize the surround channel. That's a debate for a different thread though. :)

I'm using dipoles as surrounds as bipoles as back surrounds. Very non directional, sounds very good.

Bad_Boy
08-23-06, 03:37 AM
Not saying your wrong Ruined, just asking for confirmation.
Has it been confirmed that the PS3 will not offer processing for TrueHD + DTS-HD? All I know as of now is that the cell handles the sound processing, but nothing more on those specific details.

EvilEye
08-23-06, 03:55 AM
If you look at the pic below it is more or less confirmed that the PS3 will support at least DOLBY TrueHD.
(pic taken from playstation.com)
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=19959&d=1156323325

Bad_Boy
08-23-06, 03:58 AM
Yeah, I know. But will the ps3 decode TrueHD and DTS-HD? I don't think it's been confirmed.

npras42
08-23-06, 10:34 AM
There is a large difference between supporting TrueHD5.1 and decoding it. Supporting it means you will pass the signal digitally undecoded, as the PS3 will via HDMI 1.3 - requiring a brand new $1000 HDMI 1.3/TrueHD5.1 multichannel receiver to hear it. Note that even if you had the cash receivers that support this standard won't be available until 2007.

Decoding it as the Toshiba HD-A1 w/fw2.0 (http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/08/08/hd-dvd-2-0-firmware-soon-enables-truehd-5-1/) (also here (http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/08/20/hd-dvd-2-0-firmware-to-be-released-on-tuesday/)) and now XBOX 360 do means you can run it to your current receiver via analog 5.1 or HDMI and get lossless truehd 5.1 without dropping a grand on a new receiver.



According to the current official specs, in addition to the PS3 you will need to buy a $999+ receiver that has an HDMI 1.3 connection and TrueHD 5.1 decoding when they are released next year in order to get TrueHD 5.1 out of a PS3. The cheapest Blu-Ray player that actually decodes TrueHD5.1 is the $1299 Panasonic DMP-BD10 - over double the price of the HD-A1 or 360+HD DVD.

In other words, you are getting a lot more bang for your buck with the HD-A1/360 HD DVD in terms of nextgen sound formats as you can use your current receiver to get full resolution TrueHD5.1 so long as it has 5.1 analog inputs or HDMI.

Hmmmm... yes I see. Thanks for that.

As for the Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD bang for buck, I would never have entered this battle if the PS3 didn't have blu-ray by standard. I'm no Blu-Ray fan or HD-DVD fan and I would have waited until this war was beginning to resolve itself before purchasing either. However, I want to buy a PS3 for the games (shock horror, Sony! :p ) and its gonna have a Blu-Ray whether I like it or not.

In the end I know I'll end up picking up a few Blu-Ray films to see what its like (curiosity ya know) and if the PS3 had TruHD Dolby 5.1 decoding, I could have hooked it up via the analog inputs on my receiver (in sig) which would have been cool and got this new format. So as you've explained, this probably wont be possible, which is a shame.

npras42
08-23-06, 10:37 AM
Hm, sucks for the PS3 as the "be all end all HD experience". The new sound formats are freaking awesome. Video is not the only thing HD is about.

Absolutely. When I go to the cinema, I usually could care less whether they use digital projectors or whatever. I care about the sound system they use. Sound makes all the difference in real HT system.

I watch films on my PC monitor more often than not, just because my speaker system for that is far superior to the one hooked to my TV.

Zelda_fan
08-23-06, 12:23 PM
Absolutely. When I go to the cinema, I usually could care less whether they use digital projectors or whatever. I care about the sound system they use. Sound makes all the difference in real HT system.

I watch films on my PC monitor more often than not, just because my speaker system for that is far superior to the one hooked to my TV.

Honestly, I find that DLP projectors are worst than 35mm ones.

Zelda_fan
08-23-06, 12:24 PM
If you look at the pic below it is more or less confirmed that the PS3 will support at least DOLBY TrueHD.
(pic taken from playstation.com)
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=19959&d=1156323325

I would be shocked if the PS3 decoded DOLBY TrueHD.

S.I.N
08-23-06, 12:25 PM
I would be shocked if the PS3 decoded DOLBY TrueHD.

Well be shocked its says it right there.

Zelda_fan
08-23-06, 12:58 PM
Well be shocked its says it right there.

Obviously a newb to Home Theatre.

That logo dosen't mean it decodes it. It just means that it supports it (by support meaning that it passes an undecoded signal through HDMI).

Bad_Boy
08-23-06, 01:13 PM
I would be shocked if the PS3 decoded DOLBY TrueHD.
Why would you be shocked?

|MaguS|
08-23-06, 01:17 PM
According to the standards set by the Blu-ray Disc Association all players must support Dolby TrueHD decoding up to 8 channels. So since the PS3 is a Blu-Ray player it has to support Dolby TrueHD decoding, it is up to the movie studios to decide which audio codec they use.

http://www.blu-raydisc.com/assets/downloadablefile/2b_bdrom_audiovisualapplication_0305-12955-13403.pdf
http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_audio_codecs

Bad_Boy
08-23-06, 01:19 PM
If you look at the pic below it is more or less confirmed that the PS3 will support at least DOLBY TrueHD.
(pic taken from playstation.com)
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=19959&d=1156323325
I just notice this logo list may be old. Gaming-Age has gotten some new PR shots of the console...

http://gaming-age.com/media/2006/august/ps3_newshots/36.jpg
seems like just a hdmi and new dts logo were added.

|MaguS|
08-23-06, 01:23 PM
I just notice this logo list may be old. Gaming-Age has gotten some new PR shots of the console...

http://gaming-age.com/media/2006/august/ps3_newshots/36.jpg
seems like just a hdmi and new dts logo were added.

BWAHAHA Gaming-Age owned you!