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msxyz
09-09-06, 03:10 AM
United States Patent Application 20060069752
Kind Code A1
Chatani; Masayuki (Chief Technical Officer of Sony Computer Entertainment Inc.)”

Title: Incentivizing software sharing through incentive points

Abstract:
A method for incentivizing sharing of a software product through awarding incentive points utilizing unique identifiers including removable storage identification, user console identification and user identification. The granting of access permissions and the awarding of incentive points are facilitated through a host server.
I'll leave to you to fetch the whole patent text.

Essentially, this patent allows the resale of 2nd hand games between individuals through the use of "market points" (or whatever they will be called in Sony on-line structue). Here is how it works:


Each disc as han unique Id tied to a person account
"A" wants to sell a game to "B". "A" authorizes the transaction on Sony network
"B" receive the disc and spends a certain amount of "market points" to unlock it
The disc (with an Unique ID) now can be used by the 2nd account
Person A receive a modest amount of "market points" in payment
Sony receives the rest.


It will cut down the 2nd hand market done by stores (which is very profitable for the store owners) but -worse- it will put an end to people swapping their games between themselves. This is, frankly, intolerable, because it's a serious limitation of a people freedom of lending/selling or even giving away for free their old games. We're are not talking about unauthorized copies, software piracy or the like. We're talking about a perfectly legal practice which can be done with a book, a CD or any other object and which has been done since the dawn of human society.

This patent addresses the problem of game companies losing revenue due to second-hand sales but in the worst possible way for us gamers.

Here is an article on the subject: http://www.neogaf.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=29&Itemid=32

AthlonXP1800
09-09-06, 04:30 AM
Oh Sony...
and what if my buddy wants to test a game and I give it to him for a week or so? Stupid.

Well that is "borrowing" for a week, Sony's patent is very good idea for us who want to sell games which no longer playing any more, it certainly much better than Steam accounts that not allow sell it to second users, if people are attempt to sell Steam accounts to other people will result freeze accounts and ban users from using Steam and also lost all Steam games they owned.

ArturNOW
09-09-06, 05:28 AM
But imagine I've got nice multiplayer game and my friend has a meeting where 4 people would like to play this particular game. I can't just take the game to him because it won't play, instead I should bring PS3 with me which isn't reasonable.

I have to read this article before making any judgement, but if it works like this that's not good. Maybe they should make it like this: you can freeze your rights to play one game for not more then e.g. one week so you could lead it to anybody or play it on other console. Freezing would mean that after this period of time game can be played only on you system.

What Sony is doing is good for developers because it mean bigger profite to them so developers will be more eager to publish games for PS3. But their other side of the coin what if gamers boycott it.

msxyz
09-09-06, 05:51 AM
Well that is "borrowing" for a week, Sony's patent is very good idea for us who want to sell games which no longer playing any more, it certainly much better than Steam accounts that not allow sell it to second users, if people are attempt to sell Steam accounts to other people will result freeze accounts and ban users from using Steam and also lost all Steam games they owned.I sold HL2 (boxed) and the Steam account I was forced to activate to a friend. The user info I submitted was fictional anyway. Unless you go bragging about in steam forums, nobody will notice that an account has changed user.

And no matter of how some silly notice/end license says I'm allowed to privately resell to other people the stuff I own. Valve owns the intelelctual property over the software in the same way a manufacturer of any trademarked product is the sole entity entitled to replicate it and benefit from its sales; but private transactions are contemplated and permitted by law and Valve or anyone else doesn'r have the right to restrict it.

Back to the topic, I wonder how stores will react. Most of their income nowadays comes from 2nd hand sales and a lot of people are more keen to buy a second hand game when the price is beyond the 40-50 bucks point. Unless Sony will devise a way to "compensate" stores, I think many storekeepers will try to boycott Sony by promoting the competitors' products. Software/hardware resellers have usually an easy time doing this as the vast majority of people buying into electronics have poor knowledge.

It should also be noted that people reselling their software with Sony system don't receive actual money but points to be spent only in Sony online network system. So they are forcefully locked into a vicious circle. Gone will be the days when people sold their old consoles and game collections to invest in new hardware.

russ_3d
09-09-06, 06:25 AM
weird isnt it, times are a changing

rflair
09-09-06, 06:36 AM
What SONY is doing is saying you never owned the game.

ArturNOW
09-09-06, 06:46 AM
Right now it's only patent and it doesn't say anything about what Sony will do. It says what's possible. Let's hope it's gonna be the old way anyway.

Bad_Boy
09-09-06, 07:13 AM
What SONY is doing is saying you never owned the game.
Did you even read the thing?
If anything, it says you still own the game after you give it to someone.

It kinda works like this..

you pay for a game. say 60 bucks.
you stop playing the game, decide to sell it to a friend or back to a gamestore.
you sell it for say 45 bucks.
the next person who gets the game may get like a large chunk of the game, but probably not the complete game. they pay another 5 bucks to sony to unlock the complete game, and since you were the orginal owner, sony splits that 5 bucks with you probably through some kind of 'sony bucks'. you probably wont get 2.50 in cash back, but you will probably get 2.50 in some kind of 'sony bucks' if you will to buy things on the marketplace.
anyways after that 5 dollar transaction, you the orginal owner are no longer the owner (like in real life deals), and the person who bought the game is now the owner, which then can repeat that cycle.
so you made 47.50 off your used game, and the guy who bought the game got the full (used) game for 50 bucks. sony makes 2.50 + whatever they usually make off a game sale.

so in the end, the consumer, the developer, and sony are probably on the good end of this deal, while the retailers probably lose the most. the reason why this probably wont even be implemented is because a large chunk of the world still probably wont be able to "activate" the rest of the game due to not being online. not to mention taking the game over a friends house on their ps3 probably would be difficult unless linked to your playstation ID somehow. also renting games would be a problem, not sure how that works. this is probably another one of those patents that wont see the light of day for a while, or never. maybe in the ps4 though who knows. :p

btw, i was just throwing numbers out there, i have no idea how much this **** would cost. but if anything they could probably sell games for cheaper with this in effect because sony and publishers would make more money in the long run.

|MaguS|
09-09-06, 08:37 AM
I find it funny that you all think Sony is the only Publisher that dislikes used games... in reality, almost the entire industry dislikes them since a developer/publisher doesn't make the money in relation to the amount of people who actually "bought" the game but rather of those who purchased it new only.

Does it suck for the consumer? Yup, but hopefully Gamestop/EB will actually lower the cost of used titles that have this feature since the person wouldn't be purchasing a full game initially. But I dout it since most cosumers are idiots and have no knowledge of whats actually going on, only hardcore follow the industry.

msxyz
09-09-06, 10:34 AM
I find it funny that you all think Sony is the only Publisher that dislikes used games... in reality, almost the entire industry dislikes them since a developer/publisher doesn't make the money in relation to the amount of people who actually "bought" the game but rather of those who purchased it new only.I would concede the point if we were dealing with software pirates. However, the software companies have already received money once when someone originally purchased the game. The issues that this precedent would set for any used item would be huge and absurd at the same time.

The problem is its limiting ownership rights. Video games are just regular goods that don't have any special regulation (unlike weapons or cars which must be owned, operated and traded under certain restrictions for obvious safety reasons).

hordaktheman
09-09-06, 10:38 AM
I find it funny that you all think Sony is the only Publisher that dislikes used games... in reality, almost the entire industry dislikes them since a developer/publisher doesn't make the money in relation to the amount of people who actually "bought" the game but rather of those who purchased it new only.The same thing applies to all non-consumables. A publisher whining about a game being sold second-hand is no different to a car manufacturer doing the same thing. The argument that 'it's a lost sale' has always been flawed in that regard, as it assumes that the developer has a right to demand each instance to be a new sale.

If someone offers me a game at $30 it's up to the competition to match that offer. If they won't it's their loss. It's a lost sale because they refused to match the offer, not because it was second hand. I think it's flat out dishonest of them to claim otherwise.

Does it suck for the consumer? Yup, but hopefully Gamestop/EB will actually lower the cost of used titles that have this feature since the person wouldn't be purchasing a full game initially. But I dout it since most cosumers are idiots and have no knowledge of whats actually going on, only hardcore follow the industry.It's not a 'feature'...

rflair
09-09-06, 10:58 AM
Did you even read the thing?
If anything, it says you still own the game after you give it to someone.

It kinda works like this..

you pay for a game. say 60 bucks.
you stop playing the game, decide to sell it to a friend or back to a gamestore.
you sell it for say 45 bucks.
the next person who gets the game may get like a large chunk of the game, but probably not the complete game. they pay another 5 bucks to sony to unlock the complete game, and since you were the orginal owner, sony splits that 5 bucks with you probably through some kind of 'sony bucks'. you probably wont get 2.50 in cash back, but you will probably get 2.50 in some kind of 'sony bucks' if you will to buy things on the marketplace.
anyways after that 5 dollar transaction, you the orginal owner are no longer the owner (like in real life deals), and the person who bought the game is now the owner, which then can repeat that cycle.
so you made 47.50 off your used game, and the guy who bought the game got the full (used) game for 50 bucks. sony makes 2.50 + whatever they usually make off a game sale.

so in the end, the consumer, the developer, and sony are probably on the good end of this deal, while the retailers probably lose the most. the reason why this probably wont even be implemented is because a large chunk of the world still probably wont be able to "activate" the rest of the game due to not being online. not to mention taking the game over a friends house on their ps3 probably would be difficult unless linked to your playstation ID somehow. also renting games would be a problem, not sure how that works. this is probably another one of those patents that wont see the light of day for a while, or never. maybe in the ps4 though who knows. :p

btw, i was just throwing numbers out there, i have no idea how much this **** would cost. but if anything they could probably sell games for cheaper with this in effect because sony and publishers would make more money in the long run.

Did you read it? You go on about a cash system, there is none, its a points sytem. You talk about how the cash (really points) is dispersed, the patent mentions none of that. Then you also talk about an 'unlocking' system for when games are transferred, that isn't in the patent either.

I've read it, basically works out to a lease. You buy the game you have the lease for life, you decide to sell the game your basically breaking your lease and your repayment rate is that SONY/Publisher collect a transfer fee and re-lease the software.

six_storm
09-09-06, 12:06 PM
Silly Sony . . . . when are they just gonna come out of the closet already? :D

This is prolly the most retarded idea ever. Think about it, this means the end of RENTING games at a local video store. Oh well, I want Blockbuster to hurt a little bit. Their employee benefits suck and the hours are horrible.

Peoples-Agent
09-09-06, 05:17 PM
The second hand market is HUGE in the UK, kill that off and it's bye bye Sony in Britain, that's a fact.

LycosV
09-09-06, 07:28 PM
Forget the second hand market, what about renting games?

Rakeesh
09-09-06, 07:33 PM
I find it funny that you all think Sony is the only Publisher that dislikes used games... in reality, almost the entire industry dislikes them since a developer/publisher doesn't make the money in relation to the amount of people who actually "bought" the game but rather of those who purchased it new only.

Well just because you dislike your mother in law doesn't mean you just go murder her one day.

This is prolly the most retarded idea ever. Think about it, this means the end of RENTING games at a local video store. Oh well, I want Blockbuster to hurt a little bit. Their employee benefits suck and the hours are horrible.

I agree but for a different reason. Blockbuster goes out of their way to scam the customer. They have been the target of several lawsuits for it as well.

Ninja Prime
09-10-06, 05:14 AM
Lets review:

Random news site: "Sony's new console, Playstation 3, has been found to harvest your organs during the night."

Magus: "I find it funny this is a big deal, I mean you only need one kidney anyway. And its not like other people aren't doing it."

Bad_Boy: "Did you even READ the article?!?!111oneone? It clearly says it only harvests organs you don't need, stupid fanboys. I heard some people even feel better and live longer without organs."

Yeah, sounds about right.

saturnotaku
09-10-06, 07:33 AM
Lets review:

Random news site: "Sony's new console, Playstation 3, has been found to harvest your organs during the night."

Magus: "I find it funny this is a big deal, I mean you only need one kidney anyway. And its not like other people aren't doing it."

Bad_Boy: "Did you even READ the article?!?!111oneone? It clearly says it only harvests organs you don't need, stupid fanboys. I heard some people even feel better and live longer without organs."

Yeah, sounds about right.

:lol2:

sytaylor
09-10-06, 10:18 AM
Yeah, this is sony wanting a peice of that second hand game market. Which I can understand, I just REALLY dislike this method. Anyone have the numbers for what percentage of UK Xbox owners subscribe to live? I'm willing to bet its less than 50%, and thats with a proven track record of good online content. Sony will have to build an entire platform, then convince people to pay this premium to own the last bit of a game. Its protracted and not practical, it could only be used by force, people won't choose it. Therefore, its a bad idea. Wouldn't it be much easier for sony to sell games with a lisence that states you own the game fully, but upon selling have to pay sony a fiver? It still sucks but its way less complicated.

Toss3
09-10-06, 12:25 PM
Lets review:

Random news site: "Sony's new console, Playstation 3, has been found to harvest your organs during the night."

Magus: "I find it funny this is a big deal, I mean you only need one kidney anyway. And its not like other people aren't doing it."

Bad_Boy: "Did you even READ the article?!?!111oneone? It clearly says it only harvests organs you don't need, stupid fanboys. I heard some people even feel better and live longer without organs."

Yeah, sounds about right.

Hahahah! Good one! :clap:

Imbroglio
09-10-06, 12:55 PM
Well that is "borrowing" for a week, Sony's patent is very good idea for us who want to sell games which no longer playing any more, it certainly much better than Steam accounts that not allow sell it to second users, if people are attempt to sell Steam accounts to other people will result freeze accounts and ban users from using Steam and also lost all Steam games they owned.

what? i traded doom3 for brade_andersen's steam account, no freeze no nothing? i don't understand what you are talking about. i know a lot of ppl that sell and trade steam accounts... sorry to get off topic

also, people should know enough to setup a seperate steam account for seperate steam games purchased, so that they can be sold and traded at a later date and still have all of their games.... this post has left me very confuzzled

t6_shadow
09-10-06, 01:06 PM
So I hope this IS how Sony will be handling second hand games for the PS3. Then I hope the it fails terribly after gamers get pissed off about this ridiculous attempt to screw over the industry. As hordaktheman already said their lost sale argument is bull**** its just like buying a used car.


Oh and I am sure the people remember that this was a rumor before. Remember someone posted that Sony was going to make their games locked to the console they first played on. Well this is EXACTLY whats going on here, only now if you PAY SONY MORE ****ING MONEY you get to use it on another console.

Greed drives me insane sometimes if you make a good game you will make money even with pirating etc. Give it a ****ing rest.

six_storm
09-11-06, 12:01 AM
I agree but for a different reason. Blockbuster goes out of their way to scam the customer. They have been the target of several lawsuits for it as well.

Agreed. I've been working for Blockbuster around 1 1/2 years now and I hate the job. Ever since I moved to my new store (moved for college), this store is so uptight!!! People asks us "Is this good?" but all we can say is no because we can only watch/rent out movies that are 31 days + old. How in the hell are you supposed to answer that question with a crappy employee benefit like that?

Pay sucks, store owners suck, policies suck, rules suck, promotional packages suck, customers sucks . . . everything there just sucks. I have a job interview on Weds for another retail store so wish me luck lol :D

Bearclaw
09-11-06, 10:49 AM
weird isnt it, times are a changing
Times are changing, that is for sure.

thor1182
09-12-06, 08:31 AM
Lets review:

Random news site: "Sony's new console, Playstation 3, has been found to harvest your organs during the night."

Magus: "I find it funny this is a big deal, I mean you only need one kidney anyway. And its not like other people aren't doing it."

Bad_Boy: "Did you even READ the article?!?!111oneone? It clearly says it only harvests organs you don't need, stupid fanboys. I heard some people even feel better and live longer without organs."

Yeah, sounds about right.

I was a bit O.o about what they were saying, then I saw this, and it was all better.