Unreal 2 Has FOREVER Spoiled Us All...

[cavalier]

Hi y'all

Say what you will about the gameply (I personally love it, kinda reminds me of the Raven classic Star Trek Voyager Elite Force in terms of cinematics, gameplay etc.)

But one thing NO ONE CAN DENY is this game is friggin beautiful to look at!

A big "kudos" goes out to Cliffy B and the Legend boys for milking these kind of graphics out of today's technology (even if performance lags on less than a high-end system).

In this department, Unreal 2 has SPOILED US because all other games of lesser graphical standards will leave me wanting Unreal 2 quality graphics, just because Lengend has proven what can be done graphically when you set about wringing those most from todays 3D cards.

From the screenshots I've seen of Doom 3, I think Unreal 2 may even best it is some areas (pipings and ductwork In U2 looks even, if not better, than that in D3). Wonder if U2 is making Carmack do a little fine-tuning graphically as a result?

I'm curious about whether this is indeed the case that U2 looks better than D3, but have a lowly dial-up connection and can't d-load the D3 beta version.

Those who have it, and also have Unreal 2, let me know which you think has the better graphics.

While we're on the subject, I'm tired of reading posts about how Unreal 2 really plays choppy and is a system/video card hog.

Sure I'll admit it is really laggy in some spots but hey, don't people want developers to push technology and make games as stunning as these? I'll personally take a little lag and chop to enjoy graphics of this calibre.

Those who b*tch and moan about it are only holding back the developers by scaring them off and making them pander to gamers of the "lowest common denominator" (as in low-end systems).

I'm sure the next-gen video cards from NVidia (NOT the FX, but NV35) and Radeon (R400) will run Unreal 2 buttery smooth, so it'll be worth developing games like this NOW, not later, to whet our appetite for things to come.

[-=DVS=-]

Unreal 2 looks good compared to other current market games .

Buts its nothing special :rolleyes: Doom3 or DeusEx 2 look way better with all the shadows , perpixel lighting all Unreal 2 have is high res textures that is all , its basicly DX7 game , hardly any real enviromental shadows :rolleyes:

[Smokey]

Originally posted by -=DVS=-
Unreal 2 looks good compared to other current market games .

Buts its nothing special :rolleyes: Doom3 or DeusEx 2 look way better with all the shadows , perpixel lighting all Unreal 2 have is high res textures that is all , its basicly DX7 game , hardly any real enviromental shadows :rolleyes:

Although what you said is very true, both games have different strenghts. Ureal2 - High res texture, high poly and hunge areas. Doom3 - Great lighting/shadows, bumpmaping also good textures.
Unreal2 is about size
Doom3 is about scaring the crap out of you, mostly indoors if not all, in the dark.

I think with current games, the trade off is either one or the other, not both :( Unreal2 makes you feel very small, and Doom3 will have you crapping your pants. Unreal2 would have been nicer, if they had used bump mapping, although I liked seeing the pipes made out of pollys in some places, and in others just a texture.

I think Doom3 is going to be the better looking game, but withought the HUGE maps and structures of Unreal2.

[SavagePaladin]

'dx7 game' is not correct.

'As the most important new feature of latest generation graphic cards (such as NVIDIA's GeForce3 and ATI's Radeon 8500), U2 makes use of pixel shaders and vertex shaders through DirectX. (Shaders are supported by DirectX 8 and U2 is written to make full use of all DX 8 features. See next question too.)

As explained in this preview on Gamespot UK:

Much of the graphical wizardry on show in Unreal II is made possible due to the implementation of DirectX 8.0, the streamlined utility that makes a full debut with Legend Software's shooter. The important thing here is that version 8.0 allows greater control over the graphics shaders, of which there are two - vertex and pixel. The vertex shader allows the programmer to control body and facial movements, while the pixel shader enables comprehensive pixel combination to replace the traditional multi-texturing approach. In the words of Tim Sweeney from Epic Games: "We are working on really cool effects based on the DirectX 8.0 pixel shader. These effects are aimed at the Xbox and Nvidia's NV20."'
-
'If anybody's wondering what kind of "cool stuff" you would see exclusively on a DX8 card, Epic's Rich "Akuma" Eastwood explained in this thread on the BeyondUnreal forum:

they're talking about material effects & particles'

This is all ripped from TetrisLs prerelease Unreal 2 FAQ

UT2003 was mostly dx7, no doubt, but I obviously don't think Unreal 2 is.

[cavalier]

Um, you guys are either visually impaired (as in blind) or haven't even PLAYED Unreal 2.

There is BOTH bumpmapping ALL OVER in the game and real-time shadows are everywhere as well (take the stairway off the command deck, for instance, and tell me what those shadows off the bars are if not real-time shadows).

DirectX 7? Have you played games very long? Unreal 2 is completely DX 8 made, hence the inclusion of DX 8.1 on the install disc. It's evident in the visuals.

Please, if you haven't played the game at all don't weigh in on this post. It was meant for an intellectual conversation by those WHO ACTUALLY OWN THE GAME!

Keep the kiddy commentary for another Unreal 2 post, PLEASE!

INTELLECTS PLEASE SAVE THIS POST BY REPLYING TO IT!!!

BTW, DVS, have you PLAYED Deus Ex II or Doom 3? Didn't realize Deus Ex II had a demo, let alone an alpha. Based on screenshots (all we have) I'd beg to differ on that!

Better to keep you mouth shut and make people belive your stupid then to open it and confirm their suspicions!

[SavagePaladin]

Thanks for being yet another flamer dear.

By the way, directx 8.1 is included with a lot of games. That doesn't really mean anything.

[Sazar]

I personally love playing the splinter cell demo :)

the lighting is dynamic... just wish the shadows were rendered more evenly in scenes.. some places there is a shadow... others there is not...

and that RIDICULOUS nvidia... the way its meant to be played splash needs an ati hack just like ut2k3... :)

[The Baron]

You know the reason Deus Ex 2 will look better than Unreal 2?

BECAUSE IT USES THE SAME ENGINE AND IS COMING OUT SIX MONTHS LATER, BUB

OK, I feel better now. ;)

[Sazar]

Originally posted by cavalier
Um, you guys are either visually impaired (as in blind) or haven't even PLAYED Unreal 2.

There is BOTH bumpmapping ALL OVER in the game and real-time shadows are everywhere as well (take the stairway off the command deck, for instance, and tell me what those shadows off the bars are if not real-time shadows).

DirectX 7? Have you played games very long? Unreal 2 is completely DX 8 made, hence the inclusion of DX 8.1 on the install disc. It's evident in the visuals.

Please, if you haven't played the game at all don't weigh in on this post. It was meant for an intellectual conversation by those WHO ACTUALLY OWN THE GAME!

Keep the kiddy commentary for another Unreal 2 post, PLEASE!

INTELLECTS PLEASE SAVE THIS POST BY REPLYING TO IT!!!

BTW, DVS, have you PLAYED Deus Ex II or Doom 3? Didn't realize Deus Ex II had a demo, let alone an alpha. Based on screenshots (all we have) I'd beg to differ on that!

Better to keep you mouth shut and make people belive your stupid then to open it and confirm their suspicions!

inclusion of dx 8.1 does not mean the game is dx 8 or dx 8.1 :) I have bought dx7 games wth dx 8.1 on the cd :)

also bump-mapping is a dx7 feature...

however... yes.. unreal II is for the most part a dx8 game :) per the grape vine

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by The Baron
You know the reason Deus Ex 2 will look better than Unreal 2?

BECAUSE IT USES THE SAME ENGINE AND IS COMING OUT SIX MONTHS LATER, BUB

OK, I feel better now. ;)

because Deus Ex2 has real-time shadows and lighting :p

[SavagePaladin]

Originally posted by StealthHawk
because Deus Ex2 has real-time shadows and lighting :p
What he said is just as true :)

[jAkUp]

u2 does not have real time shadowing... in doom3, a light sways, the shadows move, shoot out a light, shadows disappear... much like splinter cell, but to greater effect

[volt]

You mean real-time shadows = dynamic shadows :confused:

As jAkUp said, dynamic shadows / lightning are not present in U2 :)

Nor does it have bump mapping in my opinion...more like cube maps :)

[Lamentation]

What about landing on the strange planet and having a couple of little lizard thingies walking out of caves at you? Oh yeah, that's where it's at! They should have given you a wiffle ball bat weapon specifically to kill them with. I can't wait for space invaders 2003.

[-=DVS=-]

Originally posted by cavalier
Um, you guys are either visually impaired (as in blind) or haven't even PLAYED Unreal 2.

There is BOTH bumpmapping ALL OVER in the game and real-time shadows are everywhere as well (take the stairway off the command deck, for instance, and tell me what those shadows off the bars are if not real-time shadows).

DirectX 7? Have you played games very long? Unreal 2 is completely DX 8 made, hence the inclusion of DX 8.1 on the install disc. It's evident in the visuals.

Please, if you haven't played the game at all don't weigh in on this post. It was meant for an intellectual conversation by those WHO ACTUALLY OWN THE GAME!

Keep the kiddy commentary for another Unreal 2 post, PLEASE!

INTELLECTS PLEASE SAVE THIS POST BY REPLYING TO IT!!!

BTW, DVS, have you PLAYED Deus Ex II or Doom 3? Didn't realize Deus Ex II had a demo, let alone an alpha. Based on screenshots (all we have) I'd beg to differ on that!

Better to keep you mouth shut and make people belive your stupid then to open it and confirm their suspicions!

LOL you one little kid with bad attitude :D My first word of my post was MY OPINNION IS DIFFERENT opinion freedom of speach you dummy :p

And as for Unreal 2 i finished the game in 10 hours in single day , to say the truth graphics did not impress me at all , it seems to me you don't play much games your self :rolleyes: sure it have nice textures high polys but that is all.

If game uses DX8 it doesn't mean its have all the nice features possible with it The vertex shader allows the programmer to control body and facial movements, while the pixel shader enables comprehensive pixel combination to replace the traditional multi-texturing approach so it uses vertex power to animate characters big deal :rolleyes: same can be done with CPU like in hundred other games , uh oh it uses pixel shaders for particle effects aka gun fire and to applay textures , all same can be done with DX7 like in UT2k3 or any other todays 3d shooter :rolleyes:

What all this means is it utilizes DX8 engine to accelerate some effects on todays newest hardware that is all ;) It doesn't use DX8 pixel shaders for nice enwiromental shadows and it doesn't put any bump maps on walls either.


DOOM3 however uses alot more then Unreal 2 , enviromental bump mapping , true perpixel/shadeing/lightning , all levels are bumb mapped ect ect...... all features from DX8 and possibly/probably DX9 (for the record i do have Alpha)

And as for DeusEx2 offcourse i didn't play it , but you don't have to play it to see from screenshots that programers have put more effort in it then in Unreal 2 :cool:

Oh i forgot to add if you would have played Aquanox it uses DX 8.0 engine and was released a year earlier and have alot more to offer then Unreal 2 :D

[StealthHawk]

does Unreal2 look any different if you have a DX8 card than if you have a DX7 card?

if you call it a DX8 game that says to me that it either a) requires a DX8 card(which it U2 does not), or b) renders more effects when using a DX8 card(like Morrowind water).

i don't know about U2, but UT2003 looks exactly the same on a gf2mx as it does on a gf3, barring FSAA/AF or speed differences.

[Mojo]

Originally posted by cavalier
Um, you guys are either visually impaired (as in blind) or haven't even PLAYED Unreal 2.

There is BOTH bumpmapping ALL OVER in the game and real-time shadows are everywhere as well (take the stairway off the command deck, for instance, and tell me what those shadows off the bars are if not real-time shadows).INTELLECTS PLEASE SAVE THIS POST BY REPLYING TO IT!!!
Unreal 2 doesnt actually implement bumpmapping in any shape or form AFAIK. The engine now supports it, but its too costly to put in at the moment. It does however make extensive (excessive) use of cubemapping on almost every single surface (spare soft surfaces like grass, concrete).

Perhaps you are confusing the two?

Yes to the light sourced shadows however - theyre really darn pretty. But that said, theyre likely an engine thing more than a DirectX thing...

To be honest, even comparing Doom III to Unreal 2 is like apples and oranges - theyre not really comparable.

Unreal 2 doesnt really do an awful lot of pixel shader stuff (ala D3) but it isnt by a long shot a DX7 game...

Besides, when comparing graphics between the two games - keep in mind that if you thought your framerates in Unreal2 were far from satisfactory, for Doom, take that figure and divide it by two...

now if the overall graphics superiority between the two games is arguable, but one runs twice as fast as the other - i think which one i'd choose!

-Mojo

Edit: Doom III bumpmapping looks strange anyway - in an zombies covered in shrinkwrap kind of way

[SavagePaladin]

Yo DVS...

It also uses pixel shaders for material surfaces and things, according to that unofficial FAQ. Which is an amalgamation of a bunch of info from previews, last updated a long time ago. So anyway.

I never said the info was correct or well represented, I just threw it out there. I don't think any of us have any idea what tech this game really uses. People just talk too much. (Like me!!!)

DirectX 8 shaders are very limited. Back in reality, Doom 3 will undoubtedly CHOKE on my gf3ti200 on the settings I play Unreal 2 at.

Now the thought of this doesn't make ME want to buy it, since I have no option to upgrade...

Technology sucks.
(especially when you're broke)

[raystone57]

Graphics enthusiasts (graphics nuts) like me eat up this kind of thread. I could read graphics threads all day long, I get games for the looks mostly. Action, rpg, adventure, as long as it has some of the visual features mentioned in here. And I don't have to worry about commenting on gameplay except for things I like, like player or object shadows when fighting.

Anyway I have it, and with just enough of a system to enjoy it for the most part. There are all sorts of detailed cabling, panels, equipment and shiny effects to see indoors. It may not keep me busy for very long but at least the quality is there. And yeah I noticed some blurry textures but all 3D games have to do that in some areas of the screen to keep the game running at a decent speed.

Raystone

1.6 ghz p4, Intel d845wn mobo
Radeon 64 mb 8500 retail - no overclock
Maxtor 40 gb 5400 rpm, Toshiba 16x40 dvd rom
Creative 12x10x32 cdrw, 512 mb pc133 sdram
On board sound, cable, Win XP Home
19" Iiyama 450 shadow mask

[Sazar]

Originally posted by StealthHawk
because Deus Ex2 has real-time shadows and lighting :p

dynamic lighting ?

:)

/me likes dynamic lighting...

[Pafet]

gees I think u scared this guy away :D

[AngelGraves13]

Unreal 2 does not have realtime shadows!! The character you play doesn't even cast a shadow. The shadows are impressive, but they mess up too often. I noticed when I was walking in a hall there were 2 monsters in a room closed off and their shadows came out through the wall!! That's not realistic is it? No way. Doom III has realtime shadows, which are always drawn correctly. And if there is a light in back of you and you walk in front of a wall, you cast a shadow in Doom III, but that's not the case in Unreal 2. Why?? Who knows, maybe they thought we wouldn't notice. I sure as hell did. I want to see my own shadow!

[-=DVS=-]

Yeah "99 to Life" developers offten speak of BIG progress BIG advancement in graphics ,cinema like graphics :rolleyes: , and we see hardly any improvements in games , same old same old only minor changes with added complexity :p hopefully DOOM3 will change that for the better :D

[Mojo]

Unreal 2 does not have realtime shadows!!
Haha, so whats the alternative? Pre-rendered shadows? I wonder how that would work :confused: ;)

It DOES have real time shadows silly, just not the whole big unified lighting system crap that the late JC.... i mean John Carmack rabbits on about all the time.

It the same traced-fuzzy shadows that UT2003 had, but in certain circumstances coded into the level (i presume) like near the big fires in the Hell level the shadows are calculated in relation to the light source which is actually just a single actor or point.

The system does indeed have a few bugs such as the shadows showing through walls, but to be honest most (well, alot of) games have that problem - its just that its harder to see especially seeing as many games havent yet gone beyond the 'blob' shadow at the characters feet.

in the game options you can actually select stuff like number of shadows that will be drawn onscreen at any one time.... the distance at which it starts drawing them etc... perhaps if you ramp all that stuff up to max it will include stuff that you wouldnt normally notice.... like the players own shadow?

-Mojo

[sxotty]

Quake 3 arena has stencil shadows man, you just have to turn them on, and the reason games don't bother with them , is that if they go thru the wall they suck.
cg_shadows 2, r_stencilbits 8, I think is the command to turn shadows on in Quake3.