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shungokusatsu
09-22-06, 01:49 AM
http://streamingmovies.ign.com/ps3/article/734/734183/mgs4tgs06_092206_wmvlowwide.wmv
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3153899

Screens (http://www.1up.com/do/media?cId=3140656)

Yes, that's real-time.

http://image2.ruliweb.com/data/news7/09m/tgs2006/22/ps3/mgs4_12.jpg

Edge
09-22-06, 04:19 AM
Is it just me, or does it look like the graphics took a HUGE hit in that screenshot? It's nice to see that it apparently IS running in 1080p (as the resolution indicates), but yikes...the lighting looks extremely cut back. The shadowing is totally non-existant: there's no self shadowing on the models or even shadows cast by the characters on the backgrounds. Also the high resolution almost seems to be a double-edged sword: the edges are extremely sharp, but the background textures look extremely fuzzy at any moderate distance.

Seems like some of the other screens at 1Up don't have those problems though (at least the lighting). I'll wait to see what it looks like in motion though, Kojima does pretty amazing work, so I'm expecting MGS4 to be a highlight of next-gen visuals. I'm just surprised that what they're showing now doesn't even seem to be matching up to the visuals they showed in the TGS/E3 trailers.

Toss3
09-22-06, 05:43 AM
Is it just me, or does it look like the graphics took a HUGE hit in that screenshot? It's nice to see that it apparently IS running in 1080p (as the resolution indicates), but yikes...the lighting looks extremely cut back. The shadowing is totally non-existant: there's no self shadowing on the models or even shadows cast by the characters on the backgrounds. Also the high resolution almost seems to be a double-edged sword: the edges are extremely sharp, but the background textures look extremely fuzzy at any moderate distance.

Seems like some of the other screens at 1Up don't have those problems though (at least the lighting). I'll wait to see what it looks like in motion though, Kojima does pretty amazing work, so I'm expecting MGS4 to be a highlight of next-gen visuals. I'm just surprised that what they're showing now doesn't even seem to be matching up to the visuals they showed in the TGS/E3 trailers.

I agree with you to 100%! This doesn't look like the mgs4 we saw back at E3.. :( And is it just me or does the textures seem to completely lack any bumbmapping?(this is apparent imo in the cave shot)

Morrow
09-22-06, 06:18 AM
wow, the game certainly will be excellent but the graphics look like a 3 year old game. Flat low-res walls, no architectural details or depth, just flat surfaces and the characters looked in SH3 already better.

Anyway, the MGS series never pushed the graphical envelope but the gameplay was always top-notch.

|MaguS|
09-22-06, 08:54 AM
This screenshot doesn't look as good as everything else we've seen, it could be from an early part of the game. The models still look great, games not releasing till end of next year possibly later and it should improve over time.

Becoming
09-22-06, 09:10 AM
Love the cammo. Too bad I won't be getting a PS3 just to play 2 games (at least not until a giant price drop). Shame really since I love the series so much. :(

Morrow
09-22-06, 04:17 PM
Love the cammo. Too bad I won't be getting a PS3 just to play 2 games (at least not until a giant price drop). Shame really since I love the series so much. :(

Nah, just wait several months and you can buy the PC version with enhanced textures and effects and special missions. That's how I did it for MGS2 and SH2/3/4

Quickstar
09-22-06, 04:23 PM
This screenshot doesn't look as good as everything else we've seen, it could be from an early part of the game. The models still look great, games not releasing till end of next year possibly later and it should improve over time.

With the way games are being previewed these days, I expect a decrease in graphics over time. Look at Motorstorm and Red Steel. Im just so sick of devs releasing CG videos and playing it off like its in-game.

Toss3
09-22-06, 04:59 PM
With the way games are being previewed these days, I expect a decrease in graphics over time. Look at Motorstorm and Red Steel. Im just so sick of devs releasing CG videos and playing it off like its in-game.
I think don't think Kojima would lie about the graphics of Mgs4. It was running real-time back at E3, but it wasn't running at 1080p. Now, 1080p requires much more power to run at decent frames, and maybe the ps3 just doesn't have what it takes?

Marvel_us
09-22-06, 05:03 PM
Maybe it's just going to take time. Motorstorm looked like crap when they showed the first real footage. Look at it now, it looks pretty damn nice.

Not to mention a lot of this vid still have MGS3 elements.

|MaguS|
09-22-06, 06:42 PM
With the way games are being previewed these days, I expect a decrease in graphics over time. Look at Motorstorm and Red Steel. Im just so sick of devs releasing CG videos and playing it off like its in-game.

MGS4 videos were never CG... EVER. Motostorm looks amazing... I don't know where your getting that it looks poor, sure it doesn't look as good as the original trailer but it looks pretty dam close.

Again, this is probably an early shot of the game considering everything else we have seen looked better. This is a new area maybe they didn't have time to put the finishing touches.

Knot3D
09-22-06, 06:53 PM
Take note ; the shots which 'lack' the shadowing/lighting are mostly inside a building/enclosed rooms ; outside/open structures, it's definately there.

jAkUp
09-22-06, 07:09 PM
Damn, yea the other media released looks much better.

shungokusatsu
09-22-06, 11:38 PM
This is stil la very early build of the game, there's still over a year ;eft of development for this title. The textures will look better, and Kojima said the final product will look like the TGS'05 trailer, give it time. I can't believe everyone's so turned off because the graphics aren't over-the-top.

Marvel_us
09-23-06, 03:58 PM
Any ideas on why Snake is young at the end of the vid?

I can't wait to see how this game progresses over time. If fatal interia can make a jump, this game will take leaps.

Edge
09-23-06, 04:19 PM
This is stil la very early build of the game, there's still over a year ;eft of development for this title. The textures will look better, and Kojima said the final product will look like the TGS'05 trailer, give it time. I can't believe everyone's so turned off because the graphics aren't over-the-top.
Well, it IS a new Metal Gear Solid game. We've come to expect the games to look spectacular compared to almost anything else on the market. It would be like Id software showing off a new game engine that doesn't completely blow us away.

I'm also weary of the "we know it looks like crap now but we PROMISE it'll look just as good as it did when we first showed it!" lines given by developers. Just look at Red Steel. But in any case, I'll wait to see how it looks later...but I really don't understand why they released these shots if they don't think it represents what the final game will look like since the game still isn't playable. Why rush it when there's no reason to show off unfinished work yet?

|MaguS|
09-23-06, 04:26 PM
but I really don't understand why they released these shots if they don't think it represents what the final game will look like since the game still isn't playable. Why rush it when there's no reason to show off unfinished work yet?

Because if they just say they are working on it but never release any media or information about it then people start treating it like Duken Nukem has been treated... It's better to show its progress rather then nothing at all, in my opinion.

Look at Resistance, MotorStorm and Fatal Inertia. All those games looked pretty poor when they originally were showed.

Zelda_fan
09-23-06, 04:40 PM
MGS4 videos were never CG... EVER. Motostorm looks amazing... I don't know where your getting that it looks poor, sure it doesn't look as good as the original trailer but it looks pretty dam close.

Again, this is probably an early shot of the game considering everything else we have seen looked better. This is a new area maybe they didn't have time to put the finishing touches.

Obviously the origional videos were CG. If they had an actual realtime engine that was capeable of that back then, it would LOOK BETTER today, not worse. I don't see why you believe the "just becasue konami says" logic. It isn't like game devs don't lie to make their product look better than it really is. I have no doubt this will be a great game, but the graphics aren't going to look like what we saw at TGS05.

To be honest, the video posted at the beginning of this thread looks like it is a mix of CG and a mix of realtime (similar to the Lost Odyssey trailer). The animations start to get a lot jerkier, and the textures drop in resolution.

Marvel_us
09-23-06, 04:52 PM
Obviously the origional videos were CG. If they had an actual realtime engine that was capeable of that back then, it would LOOK BETTER today, not worse. I don't see why you believe the "just becasue konami says" logic. It isn't like game devs don't lie to make their product look better than it really is. I have no doubt this will be a great game, but the graphics aren't going to look like what we saw at TGS05.

To be honest, the video posted at the beginning of this thread looks like it is a mix of CG and a mix of realtime (similar to the Lost Odyssey trailer). The animations start to get a lot jerkier, and the textures drop in resolution.

That doesn't mean it was CG. It was already said that the animations in this vid were placeholders from MGS3, the game won't just automatically look good from the start.

Those trailers were made as a final representation of how the game will look. Kojima also gave a live demo of one the old trailers where he changed different elements like the lighting in real time.

|MaguS|
09-23-06, 05:18 PM
Obviously the origional videos were CG. If they had an actual realtime engine that was capeable of that back then, it would LOOK BETTER today, not worse. I don't see why you believe the "just becasue konami says" logic. It isn't like game devs don't lie to make their product look better than it really is. I have no doubt this will be a great game, but the graphics aren't going to look like what we saw at TGS05.

To be honest, the video posted at the beginning of this thread looks like it is a mix of CG and a mix of realtime (similar to the Lost Odyssey trailer). The animations start to get a lot jerkier, and the textures drop in resolution.

The only people who think they are CG are idiots... no other excuses. There is already a video available from last year that showed them changing the lighting and color in realtime aswell as changing the camera and moving it around.

Kojima today aswell went on the record and stated that the only difference between these movies/shots and the gameplay is that these are taken using a cinematic camera angles while in gameplay the camera would be in a different position, nothing else is changed.

Oh and here is from TGS2k5 where it shows its REALTIME.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atrKG7L3C1k&mode=related&search=

Zelda_fan
09-23-06, 05:19 PM
That doesn't mean it was CG. It was already said that the animations in this vid were placeholders from MGS3, the game won't just automatically look good from the start.

Those trailers were made as a final representation of how the game will look. Kojima also gave a live demo of one the old trailers where he changed different elements like the lighting in real time.

why don't they just use the animations they had from the TGS05 trailer? After all, they cliamed it was running on the actual game engine.

Marvel_us
09-23-06, 05:21 PM
why don't they just use the animations they had from the TGS05 trailer? After all, they cliamed it was running on the actual game engine.

If things like that were in place then I guess the game would be coming out in the launch window and not over a year from now. Gameplay animations aren't the same as real time animations.

The TGS05 trailer had scripted events, no one was actually playing the game like this vid.

Zelda_fan
09-23-06, 05:25 PM
The only people who think they are CG are idiots... no other excuses. There is already a video available from last year that showed them changing the lighting and color in realtime aswell as changing the camera and moving it around.

Kojima today aswell went on the record and stated that the only difference between these movies/shots and the gameplay is that these are taken using a cinematic camera angles while in gameplay the camera would be in a different position, nothing else is changed.

Oh and here is from TGS2k5 where it shows its REALTIME.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atrKG7L3C1k&mode=related&search=

Then I am mistaken, but WHY would they reduce the quality if they had it running in realtime back them? The only plausable explanation that I can see is that the PS3 took a huge hit in processing power (maybe those inq articles where right).

Knot3D
09-23-06, 05:26 PM
Talk about 'denial'....

Those earlier MGS4 trailers are NOT prerendered cg.

They do however, use all processing power for some extra use of particle fx, lighting and of course all the mocap'd character motion. I'm sure Kojima is looking to find a well balanced distribution of processing power ; he allocated more than 30% of PS2's power in MGS2 to enemy AI. With a year or more of development to go, i'm sure they'll find a sweetspot for good graphics & gameplay.

Anyway,i think the renewed gameplay and anticipated plottwists will be totally worth it.

The 'young Snake' ; why, how, where & when ; speculations x a billion. Some say it's the Octocamo mask which mimics his youthful appearance stored in the memory of his nanomachines. Who knows...

|MaguS|
09-23-06, 05:30 PM
Then I am mistaken, but WHY would they reduce the quality if they had it running in realtime back them? The only plausable explanation that I can see is that the PS3 took a huge hit in processing power (maybe those inq articles where right).

Or maybe the new parts of the game they are showing are INCOMPLETE... GASP! The game doesn't release for another year+. Look at the progression that MotorStorm went through and you can see that a game could look poor in the beginning and signifficantly improve overtime.

As for the PS3 specs changing, nothing has ever changed since the PS3s Specs were finalized.

From the recent "LAIR" Interview, remeber this is from Factor 5 Studio who are not owned nor related to Sony in any shape or form. They were large supporters of Nintendo during the previous console generation so I dout we could call them bias.


The final dev-kit delivered exactly what we expected in terms of power; there was no nasty last-minute surprise or anything. I've read the rumors of Cell being so hot that they had to downgrade clock-rate and quite frankly, I don't know who is spreading those. Cell specs didn't change, its speed didn't change, in fact the final retail unit is so quiet that when we first had Lair booting from disc on it we thought the PS3 wasn't running at all.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/733/733921p5.html