View Full Version : Can AMD take back the flagship crown prior to Hammer?

08-16-02, 12:30 PM
I was just looking at the Top 20 Webmasters for 3DMark2001 and noticed a few Athlon systems competing quite well running in the 2.0ghz range with P4's running in the 2.8ghz range. With 2.13ghz Athlon XP's on the way and the nForce2 claiming at least a 1% improvement over the KT333 is it feasible that AMD could temporarily regain the performance crown? Does anybody know if the new Athlons will be 333mhz FSB or is that slated for the 2800+?

08-16-02, 07:53 PM
Woun't be easy Intel soon will ship new P4 prescot.. with 3GHz + with some high improvements like big super fast cash at 2Ghz :eek: also Hyper.... something tech from AMD :(

AMD better release Hammer faster :rolleyes:

08-16-02, 07:55 PM
Hehe i forgot i already made a comment about new P4

Just two weeks ago Intel officially introduced the successor to the Pentium 4 under the codename Prescott. To be released in the second half of 2003, Prescott will be Intel's first 0.09-micron (90nm) CPU that will feature the following:

- Hyper-Threading technology
- Micro-architectural enhancements
- Additional L2 cache
- 800MHz FSB (200MHz Quad-Pumped)
- 90nm manufacturing process
- Close to 100,000,000 transistors

P4 Presccot ships in 2003 only (http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=669)

08-16-02, 08:26 PM
And AMD's .09 micron CPU also ships in 2H of 2003, according to their roadmap.

08-16-02, 10:46 PM
hmmmm....*rubs hand together* the future it starting to look very bright for cpu's :)

08-16-02, 11:18 PM
The problem is when the CPUs get so cheap that selling them becomes a low profit business. what will AMD do then, I have to ask :p

Just a theoretical question, no need for attacks

08-17-02, 12:52 AM
Short answer to the mans question: NO. And I am an AMD user too. It's just a fact that it is not going to happen. When the Hammer arrives though, look out Intel.

08-17-02, 01:15 AM
A 333 FSB 2800+ could take back the crown, but only very temporarily. It would certainly ensure AMD's safety until the release of Hammer though.

And according to the previews floating around, Opteron chips will be available yet this year, so we should get a fairly accurate picture of what the Athlon version of the K8 will bring.

08-17-02, 04:23 AM
yes, but by the time a 2800+ 333FSB Athlon gets out the door, Intel will likely have a 3GHz CPU out...

08-17-02, 02:42 PM
DVS: My question is focused on the near future not 2003.

SavagePaladin: Well AMD's been selling their CPU's in this price range (perhaps even lower) for years, all the while eating at Intel's marketshare so I'm not too worried about that aspect of the market right now.

Pakman: Well, that's my question, I keep seeing people move on to the Intel platform (not me, I won't buy an Intel if there's an alternative, if for no other reason but to balance the market) but when I research the benchmarks it seems that the 2.53mhz P4 is only marginally ahead of the Athlon XP 2200+ (in fact still behind in a few benchmarks) and most of these have been HEAVILY optimized for the P4, something you're not gonna find in a lot of run of the mill software.

I would say that in "balanced" software (for lack of a better term, meaning software where the P4 was just behind the Athlon XP before the Northwood/533mhz FSB chips shipped), the Athlon XP 2400+ and 2600+ in an nForce2 could take back the lead. In the software where the 2.0ghz P4 at 400mhz fsb beats an Athlon XP 2200+, well we'll have to wait for the Hammer's SSE2 to take advantage of the optimizations being used for that software.

Another question: Has anyone found any decent comparison's between a P4/533mhz DDR system and a Athlon XP 2200+ KT333 system? I haven't been able to find one.

08-17-02, 08:57 PM
here's a review http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q2/020610/thoroughbred-14.html. i'm not sure if they're using a KT333 or a KT266A. but since the performance difference is marginal at best(the KT333 performs 0-5% better than the KT266A) it is very indicative of performance.

SavagePaladin's point is that AMD is now producing high end CPUs, not just value parts like it did in the days of yore.

08-17-02, 09:06 PM
Actually StealthHawk it appears that those comparisons are once again a P4 with RDRAM not DDR. Don't the P4 DDR systems peforming slightly lower than the P4 RDRAM systems?

And isn't/hasn't making CPU's been a low profit business for the last couple of years? Whether or not they've been building "high end CPU's" the profit margin has always averaged near the same for AMD (actually it's a bit better now, I think). Again, I don't think that's anything to worry about.

08-17-02, 09:19 PM
oh....i'm sorry. wrong P4 configurations. you can find P4 with DDR here (http://www6.tomshardware.com/mainboard/02q3/020722/intel845g-15.html) and here (http://www6.tomshardware.com/mainboard/02q3/020720/sis648-09.html)

just compare those numbers to the Athlon numbers in the other review. the first link is P4 with DDR333 using an Intel chipset. the second is P4 with DDR400 using SiS.

CPUs are certainly not a low profit business for Intel. i bet their profit margins are higher than AMDs. i think you're confusing profit margin with slow economy. i don't think profit margins per chip have been decreasing, although volume sold has.

08-17-02, 10:10 PM
Yes, so it appears that in many benchmarks the P4 DDR systems are a good ~5% slower than their PC1066 counterparts. I believe that drops them down to the Athlon XP 2200+ performance level at stock speeds in several benchmarks. Yet this fact seems lost on the populous. I wonder why?

The profit margins ARE slim for most of Intel's low-mid end line, they make up for it in volume and their flagship procs which generally cost 2-3x AMD's. Oh, and their Xeons which cost even more.

I'm not confusing profit margin for slow economy nor did I say profit margins have decreased. Not sure where you got that :)
Again, I think AMD's profit margins have been pretty steady since the K6 days (maybe a bit higher overall for the Athlon line, good for them).

AMD's definitely had a harder go of it, precisely why I continue to support them. Root, root, root for the underdog (well, as long as the products are comparable -- If Intel shipped a P5 tomorrow that was 50% faster than the current AMD flagship, I'd have to bite).