New Radeon: 9800PRO ?

[Gabrielx]

Straight from the gossip-mongers (but sometimes they are right you know):

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7895

"The fastest version Radeon 9800 PRO should be 40 percent faster than a Radeon 9700 PRO. "

:eek: I almost begin feeling sorry for Nvidia (but just almost...)

[MuFu]

"Radeon 9800" is listed in the drivers so this isn't exactly an amazing revalation.

40% performance increase is a bit optimistic. Maybe in Doom III or the Proxycon 3DM03 test, but generally it'll be less of a delta. They have a couple of weeks till it is announced so final clockspeeds may still be in limbo.

MuFu.

[-=DVS=-]

Radeon 9800
Process: 0,15 µm
Core clock: 375 MHz
Memory type: DDR-I (128MB)
Memory clock: 350 MHz

Radeon 9600 Pro
Process: 0,13 µm
Core clock: 400 MHz
Memory type: DDR-II (128MB)
Memory clock: 400 MHz

Radeon 9600
Process: 0,13 µm
Core clock: 300 MHz
Memory type: DDR-II (128MB)
Memory clock: 300 MHz

Radeon 9200
Process: 0,15 µm
Core clock: 275 MHz
Memory type: DDR-I (64MB)
Memory speed: 275 MHz


This is interesting maybe its a typo but Radeon 9600PRO is faster then Radeon 9800 :eek: , maybe 9800 will have something extra cool , like 2 tmus per pipe ( but nah but could be ) or some uber AA implemented ( but then other cards could support it also ) ooo maybe it will cost 50% less then Radeon 9600Pro :p

[volt]

Originally posted by -=DVS=-
This is interesting maybe its a typo but Radeon 9600PRO is faster then Radeon 9800 :eek: , maybe 9800 will have something extra cool , like 2 tmus per pipe ( but nah but could be ) or some uber AA implemented ( but then other cards could support it also ) ooo maybe it will cost 50% less then Radeon 9600Pro :p

Weird indeed hah!
By the way, the 9600 Pro is going to cost $150 (supposedly) and 9800 around $350 :confused:

[-=DVS=-]

Ahh i got it Radeon 9800 will have 8x1 configuration like R300 , but Radeon 9600Pro and lower will have 4x1 or maybe 4x2 configuration less pipes=transistors=higher cloak speed ;) (Radeon 9600 will cost probably alot less also)

Also Rage3d claims it will use GDR memory will be used. The focused frequency: 350 MHz, that are effectively 2 x 350, thus 700 MHz

And i guess Radeon9600 will use something cheaper :confused:

Hmm more rumors ahhh...... witch ones are true i wonder

[-=DVS=-]

Originally posted by volt
By the way, the 9600 Pro is going to cost $150 (supposedly) and 9800 around $350 :confused:

Well then it makes sense Radeon 9800 aka R350 is ( 8x1 , .15 , Core 375Mhz , QDR 700Mhz ) and cost 350$

And Radeon 9600Pro aka RV350 ( 8x1 or 4x1 , .13 , Core 400Mhz , DDRII 800 ?:confused: maybe DDR1 )


It makes no sense :o i am going crazy

[Lezmaka]

It (RV350) probably has to be clocked faster because it's probably less efficient. Otherwise, in situations where the cards aren't limited by bandwidth, it'd beat ATI's top of the line. I would say it will almost definately be less efficient because it's only got 75 million transistors.

What I find weird is they have GDDR2 (which unless something has changed, is more expensive than reg DDR) on mainstream boards supposedly costing under $200. There would definately not be a need for DDR2 on the 9600 non-pro, at least clock-wise.

Maybe to save transistors, they just got rid of DDR1 support for the RV350 and they're counting on DDR2 getting cheaper since the RV350 may be around for a while.

[-=DVS=-]

Originally posted by Lezmaka I would say it will almost definately be less efficient because it's only got 75 million transistors.

Only 75 MT

Then Radeon 9800 110MT ? 8x1 , .15 , Core 375 , Mem 700 DDR1 = 350$

Radeon9600Pro 75MT 4x1 , .13 , Core 400 , Mem 800 DDR2 ;)

[DrAkO]

Yeah but the R9800 will probably use a 256 bits memory bus and 128 bits for the R9600

And maybe, 8x2 for the R9800 ?

[MuFu]

Originally posted by DrAkO
Yeah but the R9800 will probably use a 256 bits memory bus and 128 bits for the R9600

Yeah, you can deduce that by looking the boards - 8 termination resistor packs around each BGA chip on R350 compared with 4 per chip on RV350.

Radeon 9800 does not have two TMUs per pipe, no. It is essentially a clock-bumped R300 with minor fixes/optimisations (hinted at one earlier in this thread!).

MuFu.

[kyleb]

im wondering abou that as well DrAkO, after all i am sure i could get my 9700pro to the clockspeeds mentioned for the 9800 anyway if i messed with the stock cooler at all.

Maybe to save transistors, they just got rid of DDR1 support for the RV350 and they're counting on DDR2 getting cheaper since the RV350 may be around for a while.

i totaly agree Lezmaka, granted this is all just speculation on top of speculation; but it is still fun. :D


also MuFu, how might you expext such a small setup up as you descripe to yeild imperesive enough results to justfy itself or the claims above?

[volt]

Even a 20% overall increase in performance is a LOT.

[MuFu]

Originally posted by kyleb
also MuFu, how might you expext such a small setup up as you descripe to yeild imperesive enough results to justfy itself or the claims above?

What do you mean? :confused:

MuFu.

[kyleb]

sure Vote i have to agre with you there. i mean if it can do 1600x1200 what the 9700pro does in ut2k3 at 1280x960 then by all means it is a worthy product. however my 9700pro comes with 350mhz memory already, granted i have to turn it up from 310 myself but all the same it is capable. i was honestly expecting at least 400/400 out of ati's next big thing, but then again clockspeeds are not everything.

which brings me back to my question to MuFu, i hope that cleared things up there as well. i dont rightly expect you to know or even be able to show it MuFu if you do know seeing as how we realy dont have much publicly avalable information at this point anyway; i just figured it does not hurt to ask. ;)

[MuFu]

I will try and give you an answer once I know what you are trying to ask! If you mean the 140% performance claim is optimistic considering the specs then I agree with you completely - see my first post.

MuFu.

[kyleb]

ohh sure i was most defneatly takeing that into light, i wasnt refering to your claims above but the ones from the sorce directly. im just not quite sure on why ati would release a videocard that would only see such respectable gains in 3dmark03 sence its just a futre looking benchmark and all. i mean if it can pull of what i eluded to in ut2k3 above, or other similar situations, i can see the reasoning compleatly. i am just cursious as to know what perfomace upgrades other than clockspeeds might account for such a preformace increase stated with the specs above.


don't worry about it too much though as after all it is still just speculation on speculation, im just thinking outloud here more than anything. :angel:


doh, you edited your post. ohh well i hope my responce still makes resonable sence.

[creedamd]

I don't think we are going to see a new flagship anytime soon. Ati would be wise to wait until nvidia has something to trump the 9700pro. The 9700pro's are selling like hotcakes, there is no immediate need for a new flagship. Nvidia is going to have to make them show their cards. IMO

[MuFu]

Originally posted by kyleb
doh, you edited your post. ohh well i hope my responce still makes resonable sence.

Yeah - thanks for clearing that up.

If you've used ATi's 6xFSAA mode you'll know why R350 is such a attractive product. The 6x mode will most likely be about as playable as the current 4x mode.

Here's another, not-very-subtle hint: something didn't work before when using a particular rendering methodology and now it does. ;)

MuFu.

[kyleb]

sweet MuFu, ya i us 6xaa on my 9700pro most of the time seeing as how i still play cs more than anything. considering that the 9800 is most likely not worth it to me; but given the choice between the two if i did not have the former, things seem prety obvious. also interested to hear what this fix is, i would cry my eyes out for ssaa but i am not one to hold my breath either. :D

[Uttar]

MuFu: Thanks for saying the optimization example. In case anyone didn't figure it out, it's an optimization for Stencil. Probably something to do with being able to clear Stencil without clearing Z and vice-versa?


Uttar

[-=DVS=-]

Originally posted by kyleb
i was honestly expecting at least 400/400 out of ati's next big thing, but then again clockspeeds are not everything.


ATI's NEXT BIG THING is R400 not R350 , r350 is mearly a refresh and more pressure to Nvidia ;)

[DrAkO]

Yeah...a lot of pressure, i think you'll see NV35 available maybe may or june...

So R350 is suppose to be available in march and april...

But don't hope to see the R400 between 6 months after the R350 will be available...

So the R400 in the end of 2003 and the NV40 early 2004...

What do you think about this release date ?

[kyleb]

good point -=DVS=-, i supose that is what they said up front about a 1 year product cycle and a refersher at the 6 month mark.


as for the nv35, i hope it comes in may or june; that would be realy wild to see two high end parts comeing out so closer to eachother from the same company though. granted if anyone can pull it off i imagine that would be nvidia.

[Hellbinder]

I personally do not agree with what they have listed for Clock speeds and Memory types.

I can also confirm that the R350 is between 20-40% faster than the R300 depending on the benchmark. and in a couple cases even more than 40%.

[volt]

Originally posted by Hellbinder
I personally do not agree with what they have listed for Clock speeds and Memory types.

I can also confirm that the R350 is between 20-40% faster than the R300 depending on the benchmark. and in a couple cases even more than 40%.

People tend to look at overall performance rather than software specific. That includes games.