After years of being behind, ATI is finally on top

[DBY]

After many years of trying to compete with Nvidia, it appears ATI are firmly in the driving seat of the graphics card market. Will this mean that a consumer switch, even those loyal of all loyal Nvidia fans will convert to ATI???? i think so.

I believe Nvidia have been very nieve, after years of dominating the market their ignorance has finally cost them the crown, i doubt very much they'll have any fire power left after the disappointment of the FX. And when the R350 appears sometime in the next couple of months the gap between the the two rivals will be too great IMO. Final nail in the coffin??? i wouldnt be surprised.

[creedamd]

I don't think it's the nail in the coffin, but Nvidiots will have to take abuse for at least the next 6 to 8 months at least. Ati has the market for now. I know of 10-15 people that were nvidia fans that are buying ati now. I wish there was a graph that showed spikes in sales. The 9500/9700 series has got to be going thru the roof right now.

I knew that when nvidia missed the Christmas window it was in trouble.

[DBY]

6-8 months????? Are you joking???? Nvidia have got a very lkarge mountain to climb. Watch how far ATI will have travelled in 6 months, Nvidia will still be stalling, they have nothing to compete with, the danger signs are already there.

[saturnotaku]

Originally posted by DBY
After many years of trying to compete with Nvidia, it appears ATI are firmly in the driving seat of the graphics card market.

You just figure this out now? :rolleyes:

And I'm sick and freaking tired of you people who are saying this is the end of NVIDIA. NVIDIA missed the boat this time, but how many times has ATI promised a lot but delivered significantly less? And what happened to ATI as a result? They sure as hell didn't go anywhere.

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by saturnotaku
And I'm sick and freaking tired of you people who are saying this is the end of NVIDIA. NVIDIA missed the boat this time, but how many times has ATI promised a lot but delivered significantly less? And what happened to ATI as a result? They sure as hell didn't go anywhere.

I'll heartily agree with you on this one, ATI has pulled more than it's fair share of cheesy PR over the years too and made a come back in spite of it.

Personally I'm counting on a comeback from nVidia, I think the only real debatable issue on that is when....and their current behavoir is making me feel like it ain't any time in the near future. :(

The first step in fixing a problem is acknowledging a problem, and nVidia is having difficulties admitting there might be any flaws or problems with their nV30 and it's huge delay. :(

[DBY]

Well i think its different this time. This is the first time ATI have produced a card that is better than any NVidia product, in fact its so good that it looks like Nvidia are gonna scrap the FX once and for all, im not being pro ATI, im looking at things in perspective.
Its going to be awfully hard for Nvidia to get back into this fight. FACT.

[DBY]

I also dont recall Nvidia losing as much ground to third party manufacturers and ATI picking up so many, this is the wind of change i believe.

[muzz]

Well they dished it out for years, never mind 6-8 months.... I feel no sympathy.

I really do hope they get their s*** together, as everyone knows there is no hurry to drop prices or make quantum leaps in technology if their isn't any competition.

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by DBY
Well i think its different this time. This is the first time ATI have produced a card that is better than any NVidia product, in fact its so good that it looks like Nvidia are gonna scrap the FX once and for all, im not being pro ATI, im looking at things in perspective.
Its going to be awfully hard for Nvidia to get back into this fight. FACT.

how is that a fact? nvidia has multiple design teams. it's not like they are sitting idly twittling their thumbs.

it it likely that there will be some major revamping of what NV35 and NV40 originally were going to be? most certainly. until we see NV35 and how much of a success or letdown it really is, i wouldn't count nvidia out.

[saturnotaku]

Originally posted by madthumbs
Afterall, how many of us gamers have nvidia chipset motherboards?

And Xboxes and laptops powered by NVIDIA mobile chips (not necessarily for gamers but you get the idea) and Quadro-based cards for professional work. NVIDIA doesn't stop at simply graphics cards for desktop computers.

[muzz]

I have an NF2 board and I think it is BY FAR the best board I've owned.......
ATi also makes other things besides cards, neither 1 is going anywhere IMO....... and thats a GOOD thing for us consumers.

[Stavros]

The first thing nVidia need to do is sack the entire PR department. They've been more damaging to nVidia than the release of the GeforceFX (with Dustbuster). I'm not in an upgrade position at the moment so I'll be bypassing the R350 and probably NV35, but I'll want something good in my case by the time Athlon64 comes out (depending obviously on price and how well it competes with Intel's offering at the time). So if the romours are true and the R400 comes out at the expected time, and if its as good as hellbinder thinks it is then I reckon that will be in my case for the Autumn.

[Hellbinder]

And Xboxes and laptops powered by NVIDIA mobile chips (not necessarily for gamers but you get the idea) and Quadro-based cards for professional work. NVIDIA doesn't stop at simply graphics cards for desktop computers.

And Game Cubes, and 90% of the Laptop market are ATi chips, and Fire GL cards for professional work, and lets not forget that ATi is likely going to get Xbox 2.

And R350 in 3 weeks. And R400 in Late August. And in the meantime Nvidia is only going to have the Nv35.. If it all goes a lot smoother for them than the Nv30 has.

Lets not forget that for the low/mid range. Nvidia is offering the Nv31/Nv34 both Cut down versions of the already dissapointing Nv30. Which will now be going against

ATi 9800pro
Ati 9700
ATi 9600pro
ATi 9600
ATi 9500 pro
Ati 9200
ATi 9100
ATi 9000

All covering every single price point known to man.

Which the Nv31 and 34 will have weaker performance in general, and lesser features. As the Nv31 is not a full flegged DX9 card. While all of ATi's cards are fully DX9 in fact have the exact same features as the Full R300/R350. Except for 9000/9100 Which are the only fully DX 8.1 cards on the market that include PS 1.4. Which as we have seen with 3dmark03 will begin to see more and more use. Used iun Doom-III, Stalker, Star Wars Galaxies etc..

I just dont think Nvidia is going to be able to get back any real credability until Q1 2004. That will also depend on what Refresh products ATi offers like an R450.

Tough road ahead for Nvidia. The Nv35 is going to be a HUGE improvement over the Nv30. But it falls right smack dab inbetween the R350 and R400 release. Thats *IF* they dont have any problems. Otherwise they will have to try to release it after the R400... which could be very, very bad.

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by Hellbinder
And R350 in 3 weeks. And R400 in Late August


3 weeks? That's IT?!? OMFG, how the time flies when you're haering horror stories out of nVidia. ;)

So there really is a chance that the R350 is gonna beat the NV30 to the shelves? SCHWEEET! :D

[UDawg]

This is how I see it. I try for the most part to ignore the fanboys on both sides. I currently own a 9700pro. I have had Nvidia products since my TNT2 Ultra before that Voodoo, of course but what really gets me is the childish attitude of ATI fanboys. If you are a fanboy fine, it really doesn't bother me. Now going to another news site just to spew childish anger towards a company is silly.

Nvidia will not go away. the company is too large. Try to stay with me here. ATI wasn't a leader for a long time. They had their hand in the OEM market and cruised along just fine. Do you notice the point I am trying to make. They were second. They did not disapeare because Nvidia was blowing them out of the water for a couple of years. Now you are saying because Nvidia has the second fastest card they are going to die off. Where is your historical evidence of this? (Do not say 3DFX because the failure of that company was much more than missing a product launch) You have none so it brings me to what I do not like about ATI fanboys. It seems you spend most of your time complaining about Nvidia, hating Nvidia that you miss the most important reason why we love the video card industry. GAMES! Stop your complaining and just have fun with the video card you like. [disclaimer] I never said all ATI fans were as I mentioned nor did I say Nvidia fans arn't. This is just my observation of the fanboy wars.

BTW, I am the resident troll here, so beat it and stop peeing on my turf. ;) :D go back to Rage 3D and troll there. I don't pee in your forum. :D ;) (just having fun with the last few lines so don't take it serious)

[MrNasty]

I hope ATI buys out nvidia for cheating in futuremark.

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by UDawg71
BTW, I am the resident troll here, so beat it and stop peeing on my turf. ;) :D go back to Rage 3D and troll there. I don't pee in your forum. :D ;) (just having fun with the last few lines so don't take it serious)

I'm not a troll, I'm not a flamer; I actually came here back when to learn about my GF2 T400 a few years ago and only recently turned into such an agitator.

I have no illusions nor wishes of nVidia dying or disappearing, it ain't gonna happen! They could lose their whole viddy card division and they're still gonna be a huge company, but I've ALWAYS felt that nVidia over-charged for their product.

I'm not knocking their quality, I'm not knocking their management; I just always thought they cost too bloody much.

What I am truly hoping the result of all this is that nVidia starts pricing their cards more competitively. My max viddy card budget has never exceeded $100 by much and I don't really plan on changing that anytime soon, I'm just kind of hoping I can get more bang-for-me-buck out of all this. (Although I'm really considering stretching me budget to $150 for next time...it just opens up too many more better options. )

(BTW-I'm no longer a troll over at Rage3D, I'm a self-appointed mod now. :) )

[UDawg]

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
I'm not a troll, I'm not a flamer; I actually came here back when to learn about my GF2 T400 a few years ago and only recently turned into such an agitator.

I have no illusions nor wishes of nVidia dying or disappearing, it ain't gonna happen! They could lose their whole viddy card division and they're still gonna be a huge company, but I've ALWAYS felt that nVidia over-charged for their product.

I'm not knocking their quality, I'm not knocking their management; I just always thought they cost too bloody much.

What I am truly hoping the result of all this is that nVidia starts pricing their cards more competitively. My max viddy card budget has never exceeded $100 by much and I don't really plan on changing that anytime soon, I'm just kind of hoping I can get more bang-for-me-buck out of all this. (Although I'm really considering stretching me budget to $150 for next time...it just opens up too many more better options. )

(BTW-I'm no longer a troll over at Rage3D, I'm a self-appointed mod now. :) )

I hear ya Digi, I have seen you here for a while but noticed you revaling in Nvidia's misstep this last launch or lack of launch.

As far as Nvidia charging too much for video cards. You can't really blame just them. Pricing is dictated by the market. If people pay for a product then they will charge it. Besides ATI has almost the same price for it's chips, maybe a little cheaper cuz they are Canadian ;) but I won't hold that against them.:p Nvidia is no more evil or good than ATI They are just another company trying to make a buck off their hard work. I have the same opinion of Microsoft. I hate it when people flame Microsoft and say they suck but they never point out that with ouf Microsoft gaming would not be where it is today. You don't see Apple as a huge gaming platform nor do you see Linux as one either and don't spew that conspiracy theories about Microsoft controling the whole market. That is just bull. Linux gave away their OS for "FREE!" and it still hans't made a noticeable dent in the market. :rolleyes:

ok done ranting.

[saturnotaku]

Hellbinder, you totally missed my point. All I was saying was that NVIDIA isn't going the way of 3dfx like sooooooo many fanboys have been saying.

On the one hand, we have NVIDIA screwing up a product launch and suddenly the apocalypse is upon us. :rolleyes:

On the other hand, when NVIDIA was dominating the market, all the fanboys did nothing but whine about how nV was the great oppressor, keeping ATI down and out. Now that the tables have turned (and if ATI stays on top for any length of time which it looks like they will) ATI's dominance is the greatest thing since sliced bread to these people. It's this double standard the fanboys live by that really boils my potato.

Once we start seeing how the NV35/R350 and the 40/400 generation cards stack up will we truly know where both companies are standing.

[ASCI Blue]

NV fangirls are no better than ATI fangirls. Only reason ATI has been arund for so obscenly long is an entrenchment in the low end graphics market, you get a shiny new sub 2 grand PC (this is last decade btw) you'll find it has Rage somethingorother in it. NV has always aimed for the top end and added in a low end as a second thought.

Very very bad idea as most people are in the mid to low end. If NV had used half their brains they'd go ahead with NV30 and use that as the mid range card, $200ish. That would buy them to NV35 (as their high end) and use NV31 as a sub $100 card. In every bracket they just might out perform ATI and still have adequate products for every segment. Appeal to your largest userbase, the hardcore of the hardcore will still wait for the uber card.

[SlyBoots]

"NV has always aimed for the top end and added in a low end as a second thought."

the biggest part of their market share comes from the lowend...:p

[tamattack]

Originally posted by Hellbinder
...90% of the Laptop market are ATi chips...

Well, you're exaggerating a little bit there HB... It's more like 50-55% ATI, 40% integrated video, and 5-10% NV.

BTW, if you think about it, you'll realize that about 1/4 to 1/2 of of NV's mobile marketshare comes from Apple iBook/PowerBook, so they really do seem to have very limited penetration into the x86 laptop segment.

[rwolf]

It's actually a refreshing change to see someone smack Nvidia good.

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by StealthHawk
how is that a fact? nvidia has multiple design teams. it's not like they are sitting idly twittling their thumbs.

it it likely that there will be some major revamping of what NV35 and NV40 originally were going to be? most certainly. until we see NV35 and how much of a success or letdown it really is, i wouldn't count nvidia out.

Until nVidia gets their engineers back in charge instead of their PR department I don't think it matters HOW many teams they have working on chips. :(

[Spiritwalker]

Originally posted by SlyBoots
"NV has always aimed for the top end and added in a low end as a second thought."

the biggest part of their market share comes from the lowend...:p

Highest volumes and most sales come from the low end
Highest profit comes from the high end.
What both companies strive for is high sales of the midrange products that cost about the same as the low end to make and have similar profit ranges as the high end cards. That is why nVidia pushes the 4200 and ATi the 9500Pro.

These are the cards that make them the most money. Whereas the MX440 and the 9000/Pro have high volumes but make less money per board.