Dumb sodomy laws

[PtrToNull]

A friend of mine participated in a protest against Sodomy laws in Kansas last week, I really didn't care much for this topic but he told me a shocking case which clearly makes those 18 century laws obsolete and unconstitutional.

Well, here is the case


TOPEKA, Ks.—Matthew Limon, a resident at a school for developmentally disabled young people, turned 18 in February of 2000 and sometime later, engaged in sexual activity with a boy three years his junior.

Matthew Limon

By all accounts, there was no violence, aggression or coercion involved; both parties were willing participants. But because the younger teen was not yet 15, Limon’s actions were considered criminal sodomy by the state of Kansas.

Had Limon been so engaged with a 14-year-old girl, he would have been in some trouble, facing a maximum sentence of some 15 months in prison. But because he was with another boy, young Matthew Limon’s crime was far more serious—he was sentenced to 17 years in prison.

Limon, who has already served three years of his term, is not challenging whether Kansas has the right to punish older teens for having sex with younger teens, says his lawyer, ACLU staff attorney Tamara Lange. "The unfairness in the Kansas rules is what he’s challenging," she said.

The U.S. Supreme Court will soon decide whether to hear arguments in Limon’s case.

The court has already agreed to hear a challenge to a Texas law that hands out stiffer penalties to gay people than heterosexuals for committing sodomy. With this case, the court will take another look at its 1986 decision in Bowers v. Hardwick that said the Constitution did not protect the rights of gays and lesbians to engage in sex in the privacy of their homes.

If the court also agrees to hear the Limon case, the decisions in both cases could amount to the most monumental rulings the high court has issued in the area of gay rights certainly since Bowers.

While rulings in either case could have significant consequences for the legal status of gays and lesbians in the United States, Limon has much more at stake than the plaintiffs in the Texas case. If the high court does not overturn the Kansas law that Limon in prison, he will remain there until he is 35 years old.


What the hell?! 17 years for a consensual oral sex?!! I'd expect rapes and armed robbery crimes to last that long but not this! This is ****ing ridiculous.

It seems that the legislators in Kansas and Texas are nothing but retards.. heck they can even be those who banned evolution a couple of years ago.

I really feel sorry for this guy, I hope he gets out very soon :(

[LORD-eX-Bu]

The guy was 18, he is legally an adult, did whatever to a minor. It is still rape, consentual or not, even under state and federal law. Rape is rape, don't have any sympathy for any of these types:o

[netviper13]

I have no sympathy for the rape cases, but damnit you're right the KS sodomy law is BS. Technically it's supposed to apply to people of both sexual preferences, but police conveniently let heterosexual couples slide while arresting consenting homosexuals.

Kansas is horrible as far as conservativism is usually concerned (hell we only elected a democrat governor because the republican was crazy), it really sucks sometimes.

And it's really funny when they have to give a reason to keep the law on the books. Everybody knows it's because the Bible says it's wrong, but they have to find clever ways to say it because of separation of church and state. Farging religion should AT LEAST stay out of the laws. Suppose today I created a religion which required its members to engage in homosexual sex, wouldn't it then be unconstitutional to enforce the sodomy laws against the members? (prohibiting freedom of religion)

[LORD-eX-Bu]

you can say the same thing about polygamy, if it is against the law it is against the law. If they take these actions, they still get prosecuted;) Its not a new thing.

[netviper13]

But it still sucks. They have NO justification other than what is in the Bible. There aren't any studies showing that homosexuals tend to commit more murder or anything, and there never will be. It's not justified at all, just a bunch of damn conservatives who worship Pat Robertson. Our school was put in a really awkward spot last year, as a consenting homosexual couple attempted to enter a school dance with the couples price. The school refused, and it just proves how conservative my stupid state (this has happened in tons of other cities too) really is.

I have nothing against conservativism when it comes to politics, but man, live and let live when it comes to society.

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Well, as long as homosexuals don't have legal couple status under state or federal law, they won't get any of this overturned. I am quite happy with my state's decision not to legalize gay marriages also. I must be one of those crazy conservatives:D

[netviper13]

This establishes a very dangerous precedent however. That's the same precedent established in the Bowers v. Hardwick supreme court case. It basically says that the law only applies to some people. Damnit after we've come all this way with minority and women's rights we're doing the SAME thing to another group.

Any Minority or Woman who speaks against gay rights is, IMO, a hypocrite. It was less than 100 years ago that they were in the same situation as Gays and other oppressed groups are in now. Our country is really a fascist state in disguise I guess because it wantonly decides who laws apply to, and oppresses those with whom it disagrees.

Until someone can prove to me anything other than the Bible (or people whose philosophies are based off it) gives good reasons for homosexuality being wrong, it's quite clear the law (and all anti-gay laws) is/are unconstitutional by means of violating separation of church and state.

Dude I totally respect your opinion about Gays, but they at least deserve the same rights as all other Americans. To deny them these rights is to commit a silent genocide.

[LORD-eX-Bu]

heh, tough luck. All I have is religion. Probably will get flamed tho by saying this:

Homosexuality does not occur in nature. It is caused by desire, not chemicals or by being born that way. Sure you may see dogs 2 male dogs humping each other, well, either thats because they haven't sniffed around enough to find out what they are humping(in which case they promptly cease and decist :p) or they just gotten used to the motions so much that heck, they don't care. All I have to say is that it isn't natural.

Well, thats my opinion, I am entitled to it, so... don't flame me for it;)

[netviper13]

Well Michael Jackson doesn't occur in nature (God would have to have a REALLY whacky sense of humor to do that) but he still gets full rights ;)

Vaccines don't occur naturally, neither do drugs, etc. And just because it's a choice doesn't somehow make it immoral. Like you said everybody is entitled to their opinion, but at the point where Gays are being oppressed in a manner not experienced by other Americans that denies them the basic tenet of our country: "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all people are created equal; that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

To imprison someone for engaging in a consensual act of love with another person of the same gender is denying that person every right the Founding Fathers had in mind. It's selective justice, and should not and cannot be a part of a truly free country.

[PtrToNull]

you can say the same thing about polygamy, if it is against the law it is against the law. If they take these actions, they still get prosecuted Its not a new thing.


You know, this is a very funny thing coming from a mormon!!

You guys had to sacrfice polygamy to get a state! wow, that must have been hard!

Plus, the kid was only a week after his 18th birthday, and it's not a god damn rape. Why would it be considered rape between homosexuals and not between heterosexuals?

Did you read the article? You just get extra 16 years for being gay!!

This bigotry is disgusting.

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by netviper13
for engaging in a consensual act of love

I don't know, there isn't really a way to prove that it was "love";) being the religious guy that I am, I beleive it is just lust:D

[t6_shadow]

Sodomy is NOT oral sex. You need a dictionary

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by PtrToNull
You know, this is a very funny thing coming from a mormon!!

You guys had to sacrfice polygamy to get a state! wow, that must have been hard!

Plus, the kid was only a week after his 18th birthday, and it's not a god damn rape. Why would it be considered rape between homosexuals and not between heterosexuals?

Did you read the article? You just get extra 16 years for being gay!!

This bigotry is disgusting.

heh, yeah, nice cheap shot, you have something against me or my religion? you seem pretty hostile to the mention of it ;)

Actually, if it were a heterosexual couple it is still considered rape;)

[netviper13]

Originally posted by [eNv]-LORD-eX-Bu
I don't know, there isn't really a way to prove that it was "love";) being the religious guy that I am, I beleive it is just lust:D

Bah, then arrest all of my classmates who screw like rabits in acts of "love" (lust). :D

[netviper13]

Originally posted by t6_shadow
Sodomy is NOT oral sex. You need a dictionary

Sodomy, as defined by www.dictionary.com is: "Any of various forms of sexual intercourse held to be unnatural or abnormal, especially anal intercourse or bestiality."

Because oral sex is not defined anywhere in the documents which give precedent to sodomy laws, oral sex is often considered sodomy. This brings back my argument about unfair enforcements of laws. In Kansas you will never see a consenting heterosexual couple fined/arrested for oral sex, but you will see a consenting homosexual couple arrested for the same thing.

[PtrToNull]

Homosexuality does not occur in nature.


Wrong.

In fact, homosexuality is exhibited in MANY aspects of nature.

Homosexuality is not only exhibited in humans but in a wide variety of environments. I can go on and on, but it seems that you don't anything to back yourself up, while I've been through this argument countless time, so you should probably google for 5 seconds and admit you're wrong.

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by netviper13
Sodomy, as defined by www.dictionary.com is: "Any of various forms of sexual intercourse held to be unnatural or abnormal, especially anal intercourse or bestiality."

Because oral sex is not defined anywhere in the documents which give precedent to sodomy laws, oral sex is often considered sodomy. This brings back my argument about unfair enforcements of laws. In Kansas you will never see a consenting heterosexual couple fined/arrested for oral sex, but you will see a consenting homosexual couple arrested for the same thing.

Well, I can't name exactly which case, but I know it happened, there was a case of a lady and a man who were caught doin' it that way and many others(:D) in their house by police, they were taken into custody and prosecuted. I think it was on the O'rielly Factor, and thet guy actually defended their right to do so;)

A guy I knew back in HS was arrested for doin' it with some girls at school because he was over 18 and they weren't. It happens just maybe not as noticed because it doesn't get the publicity;)

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by PtrToNull
Wrong.

In fact, homosexuality is exhibited in MANY aspects of nature.

Homosexuality is not only exhibited in humans but in a wide variety of environments. I can go on and on, but it seems that you don't anything to back yourself up, while I've been through this argument countless time, so you should probably google for 5 seconds and admit you're wrong.

so, please back your statement up. I gave an example, from my own observations, heh, thats what happens when you get a new male chihuahua;)

[netviper13]

Originally posted by [eNv]-LORD-eX-Bu
Well, I can't name exactly which case, but I know it happened, there was a case of a lady and a man who were caught doin' it that way and many others(:D) in their house by police, they were taken into custody and prosecuted. I think it was on the O'rielly Factor, and thet guy actually defended their right to do so;)

A guy I knew back in HS was arrested for doin' it with some girls at school because he was over 18 and they weren't. It happens just maybe not as noticed because it doesn't get the publicity;)

I was just speaking for Kansas, as I have no clue how other states enforce the laws.

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by netviper13
I was just speaking for Kansas, as I have no clue how other states enforce the laws.

well, what can you expect from a bunch of hicks:p

[netviper13]

Originally posted by [eNv]-LORD-eX-Bu
so, please back your statement up. I gave an example, from my own observations, heh, thats what happens when you get a new male chihuahua;)

Heh, my cat likes to "make out" with fuzzy blankets. It's really freaky, she'll like paw at them and purr really loud. I assume she just thinks it feels like her mother, but I dunno. :p


well, what can you expect from a bunch of hicks

Lots of negative comments about my non meat-and-potatoes diet for one thing :D.

They really do provide some entertainment though, but nothing more.

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by netviper13
Heh, my cat likes to "make out" with fuzzy blankets. It's really freaky, she'll like paw at them and purr really loud. I assume she just thinks it feels like her mother, but I dunno. :p

my chihuahuas were making angy gay love until they found out they were both guys. I should have recorded it, it was hilarious, while neither were successfull, they tried as hard as they could before the other would throw them off. After they found out what they were doing, they got angry at each other and constantly fought until *snip snip* ;) :p

[netviper13]

Hahaha, animals are so funny to watch sometimes. I swear my cat has learning problems, because she still after three years with us hasn't figured out that she can't stop on linoleum. Makes for good entertainment to see her running into the kitchen at full speed, attempting to put on the brakes, and slamming into a cabinet; then getting up and walking off like nothing happened.

[PtrToNull]

Actually, if it were a heterosexual couple it is still considered rape


Really?!! So everything else being equal

So Boy Rapes Girl = 15 months
Boy Rapes Boy= 17 years

Can you *get* it?

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by netviper13
Hahaha, animals are so funny to watch sometimes. I swear my cat has learning problems, because she still after three years with us hasn't figured out that she can't stop on linoleum. Makes for good entertainment to see her running into the kitchen at full speed, attempting to put on the brakes, and slamming into a cabinet; then getting up and walking off like nothing happened.

I used to have cats. USED TO;) One cat was deaf(loved to terrorize it, so easy to sneak up on :p) and another was retarded(didn't have to really do anything, just sit down and watch it run into things and look stupid with its crossed eyes rofl). I have a 3 legged chihuahua tho, she is crazy, I thought she was gonna be kinda loony, but dang, she's tough, fast as hell too, she's a trooper, looks like that black and white thing from gremlins hehe:D