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Stoneyguy
10-12-06, 05:37 PM
This (http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/index.php?p=116) is a very interesting article about how the licensing of Vista will differ from what we are used to with XP. I'm a bit worried about how this will effect constant upgraders like those of us here.

einstein_314
10-12-06, 06:02 PM
Umm, whoever wrote that is an idiot. It's pretty much the same as XP...If you change your hardware and try to activate, it won't let you (WinXP does this). Then you call up M$ to activate, you explain the situation, and they give you a new code. No big deal.

Shamrock
10-12-06, 11:19 PM
No, it is ALOT different. If you change to a new system (say you bought a Dell), you can only move that new WinVista to a new system 1 time!!! If you install it to a thumb drive, you can only do so ONE time. If you do this more than once, you must buy an additional license. Unlike XP where you just re-activate it. Also, Basic and Premium CANNOT be used in a Virtual Environment! You also cannot move .ISO's from one hard drive to another, nor can you use drive cloning software (you "could", but it's illegal"). With XP, you could install it on another PC as often as you wished, as long as the other PC doesnt have that XP on it, not so with Vista.

Prime Example:
You have an older PC with Vista on it. You buy a laptop. You can install Vista on the laptop provided you delete Vista off the "older" PC. Then you decide to buy a new desktop. YOU CANNOT install Vista on that new desktop PERIOD, not even if you delete Vista on your laptop!

http://it.slashdot.org/it/06/10/12/2240214.shtml
Microsoft forbids users from installing Vista Home Basic and Vista Home Premium in a virtual machine. "You may not use the software installed on the licensed device within a virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system," the legal language reads. Vista Ultimate and Vista Business, however, can be installed within a VM.

For instance, Home Basic users can't copy ISOs to their hard drives, can't run in a virtualized environment, and can only share files and printers to a maximum of 5 network devices.

LycosV
10-12-06, 11:51 PM
I doubt it will actually work any different, this was always implied with XP, just not explicitly written. The idea is that you buy a copy of an OS to run on one machine, not multiple. If you upgrade your machine over multiple years to keep it top of the line, no problem. If you buy a new machine and "move" the Windows copy to it, fine, once at least. The reasoning is actually pretty obvious: MOST people don't delete Windows off of their old machine when they "move" it to a new one.
If you buy a whole PC from anyone it will come with Windows = not a problem.
If you upgrade the same machine = not a problem.
If you build a new PC and keep your old one TWICE = Buy another copy of Windows! You didn't upgrade, you built a new machine why? So that you could still have the old machine to... use not sit with a blank hard drive.

rewt
10-13-06, 04:09 AM
Does Vista Home mean that if I install it on my laptop, I can only use it inside my home, not while traveling? And what if a friend wants to use my PC, must he/she also buy a license?

:rolleyes:

I will try and abide by MS rules the best I can. But I must admit this is getting more and more difficult with each release. Before long, I'll need to read an 100 page booklet on what NOT to do with it..

soulie
10-13-06, 04:48 AM
so if i buy windows vista me and my brother pc's on the same router cant bought use the vista ultimate?Like i can with windwos xp pro retail version that may be used on 5 pcs.FPP refers to new, boxed, shrink-wrapped software that is purchased in any retail store or through an online vendor. This type of software is best suited to personal or low-volume needs. For users running software on five or more machines, a volume licensing solution will save you both time and money.
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/sam/what_basics_licensingwhat.mspx#fpp

rewt
10-13-06, 05:08 AM
Like i can with windwos xp pro retail version that may be used on 5 pcs.

Actually no, you can't install Windows XP Pro retail on more than 1 PC (unless you have purchased VLK or additional licenses). If you do, you are violating Section 1.1 - Installation and Use of the EULA (http://download.microsoft.com/documents/useterms/Windows XP SP2_Professional_English_29e61d64-43e3-4ca3-b201-fe0c62507034.pdf).

The same applies to Vista Basic/Premium/Ultimate. Read the EULA (http://download.microsoft.com/documents/useterms/Windows Vista_Ultimate_English_9d10381d-6fa8-47c7-83b0-c53f722371fa.pdf).

nekrosoft13
10-13-06, 06:32 AM
bah

even worse then XP BS.

grey_1
10-13-06, 07:08 AM
I went throught the installation and use section of the EULA and I really don't think there's going to be a problem with upgrades. The PITA phone calls to MS activation line are bothersome....but I can deal with it. Heck, none of the csr's I spoke with really cared what my reason for another activation was so long as I gave one.

einstein_314
10-13-06, 11:00 AM
I still don't see why it's that different from XP...I mean, with XP you're only allowed to have it installed on 1 PC at a time. The only difference here is that they say you can only change the "device" it's on once. My question is, what do they consider a "device"? ie. will changing the hardware in my computer make it a new device? Or will it be the same device, in which case I have nothing to worry about.

And I'm sure that it will work the same as it does with XP. It doesn't let you activate because you changed hardware. So you call them up, explain that it IS the same device (just a new hard drive or something), and they give you the activation key.

Stoneyguy
10-13-06, 03:27 PM
My main concern is the mobo upgrade. My understanding is that the foundation for your PC's identity in Microsoft's eyes was the mobo's NIC. You could basicly swap out one or two items every so often without concern. However when you swap out your mobo, the new NIC would set off a flag and have you reactivate your copy of XP. Now if swapping out your mobo would constitute "a new device" flag, that would mean we would only have one ground up upgrade to do in the OS's lifetime.

I'm not saying that it's going to be this way, or even that it would stop me from upgrading to Vista. It is however a concern of mine at the moment.

einstein_314
10-13-06, 08:27 PM
Its definately a concern for me too. And probably for everybody who upgrades their computer regularely.

With XP, it decides you have to reactivate when you change a certain number of hardware items. When you first install it it makes a hardware ID that is specific to your computer at that time and sends it to Microsoft. When you change hardware, your ID changes. There is an acceptable amount of change that won't trigger the need to reactivate, and different pieces of hardware have different amounts that they change the hardware ID. It's all ranked I guess. Some things count for more that others. The motherboard is probably a huge one...but then who swaps out a motherboard and doesn't reinstall windows...nobody.

And it will only let you activate XP 3 times even if you don't change ANY of your hardware. I haven't added/removed any hardware in close to 6 months in my computer and every 3 times I install windows and activate, I have to call up Microsoft and do it that way.

I really hope that they will have the same sort of system that XP has where a simple phone call solves your problems. I honestly can't see them not doing this. Maybe they'll have a bit stricter system to doing it...right now it's kinda slack. I mean, I have my copy of XP installed on 3 different computers, but I just tell them its only the one :p And they take my word for it.

Shamrock
10-13-06, 09:52 PM
I still don't see why it's that different from XP...I mean, with XP you're only allowed to have it installed on 1 PC at a time. The only difference here is that they say you can only change the "device" it's on once. My question is, what do they consider a "device"? ie. will changing the hardware in my computer make it a new device? Or will it be the same device, in which case I have nothing to worry about.

And I'm sure that it will work the same as it does with XP. It doesn't let you activate because you changed hardware. So you call them up, explain that it IS the same device (just a new hard drive or something), and they give you the activation key.

You got it right, XP allows you to install it on 1 PC AT A TIME! Vista will be on 1 PC, PERIOD, no more "at a time" Not even if you delete it off any other PC. If you install it on your home Dell, you cannot, EVER install it on any other PC, PERIOD, not even if you uninstall it from the home Dell.

Bearclaw
10-13-06, 09:54 PM
Its definately a concern for me too. And probably for everybody who upgrades their computer regularely.

And it will only let you activate XP 3 times even if you don't change ANY of your hardware. I haven't added/removed any hardware in close to 6 months in my computer and every 3 times I install windows and activate, I have to call up Microsoft and do it that way.

That's interesting. I have had to reformat and re-install XP 4 or 5 times on my system and it has activated fine every single time. I have not had to make one phone call.

sillyeagle
10-13-06, 11:16 PM
Heck, none of the csr's I spoke with really cared what my reason for another activation was so long as I gave one.

When I built my new PC I even told him I had it on TWO systems currently, both my old one which I was going to remove it from, and the new one which I was activating, and he gave me the code.

Zelda_fan
10-14-06, 01:10 AM
I recommend buying the Microsoft Action Pack. For $300 you get 10 licenses and one media copy of Windows Vista, and 10 licenses of Microsoft Office with 1 media copy, and a ton of other useless junk I'd never use (but is cool to have around).

einstein_314
10-14-06, 01:24 AM
That's interesting. I have had to reformat and re-install XP 4 or 5 times on my system and it has activated fine every single time. I have not had to make one phone call.
Really? That's definately weird. Because it's done it to me several times. With no hardware changes.

Mudcrutch
10-14-06, 04:06 AM
case closed:

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_licensing.asp

Stoneyguy
10-14-06, 12:05 PM
case closed:

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_licensing.asp

How is it case closed?

With Windows Vista, the EULA has been clarified. It now explicitly states that a user may "reassign the [Windows Vista] license to another device one time." This, the pundits say, is a huge restriction that wasn't present in Windows XP. Many people incorrectly believe this to be the case.

What's more amazing is that the number of people who actually try to do this is incredibly small. Since you can't transfer a copy of Windows that comes with a new PC anyway, less than 10 percent of all Windows licenses are transferable at all. And of those, only a tiny percentage of users have ever tried to even transfer a Windows license once. The only people that really need to do this regularly are hardcore PC enthusiasts who change their machine configurations regularly. In short, this new restriction isn't all that new and it won't affect any mainstream users.

What's really happening is that Microsoft is clarifying the license. Yes, a small group of enthusiasts who change hardware regularly will be adversely affected by the Windows licensing terms, but since they haven't changed much from XP, this isn't a new story.

It doesn't really clarify how Microsoft will enforce it's new wording. There has to be a reason it is "clarifying" it's EULA.

Mudcrutch
10-15-06, 12:43 AM
I see you quoted some of the article. Did you read it as well?

For a certain segment of the Windows community--those individuals who are highly technical in nature, build their own PCs, and upgrade their hardware very regularly, the Vista licensing terms are going to seem draconian and unnecessary. Fair enough. But that was true of XP as well. And ultimately, that's all I'm trying to point out. Not much has changed.

So you will have to call and activate when doing reinstalls over and over. Just like in XP. Just like people have mentioned earlier in this thread.

Would you like to take this to PM's where I can just tell you the same thing over and over and you can keep saying "how is this case closed?" and we can start this infinite conversational loop? :angel2:

Zelda_fan
10-15-06, 12:49 AM
A 15 minute call to MS every time I upgrade. How dare they.

Son Goku
10-16-06, 04:58 PM
Actually, the language in former OSes, included a section that explicitly said one had a right to transfer their MS software to another computer (and put no restrictions on the number of times, making it technically infinite) provided it's deleted off the old computer first. Also suggested, at the EULA I looked at, that one could give up their rights to another individual, provided all copies, backups, and whatnot are either given to them, or destroyed as well..

Would they really force people to buy a new liscense everytime they get a new system? If it's bad for PR, the people on the phone might not enforce this. They could easily get someone like myself who read them the riot act the moment they didn't want to re-activate Office and accused me of putting it on multiple computers because I installed a new beta version to Microsoft's upcomming OS.

When I was done, they were like "oh, an MSDN subscriber, didn't mean to yell at you. Yes, a lot of our third party developers weren't happy about... Yes, you are doing us a favor by beta testing our softwware, OK..." and gave it to me :lol2:

netviper13
10-16-06, 07:55 PM
I recommend buying the Microsoft Action Pack. For $300 you get 10 licenses and one media copy of Windows Vista, and 10 licenses of Microsoft Office with 1 media copy, and a ton of other useless junk I'd never use (but is cool to have around).

Which flavor of Vista does this include?

tweaked
10-16-06, 08:14 PM
ultimate x64 and x86.

and all the other "uselss" software is stuff like windows 2003 server and pretty much everything else MS makes:

Microsoft Business Contact Manager for Office Outlook 2003 10 N/A

Microsoft Business Contact Manager Update for Microsoft Office Outlook 2003 Service Pack 1* N/A N/A

Microsoft Dynamics CRM 3.0 1 10

Microsoft Exchange Server 2003 Standard 1 10

Microsoft Exchange Server 2003 Service Pack 2* N/A N/A

Microsoft ISA Server Standard 2006 1 10 X

Microsoft Live Communications Server 2005 1 10

Microsoft MapPoint 2004 Standard Edition (North America only) 10 N/A

Microsoft Office FrontPage 2003 10 N/A

Microsoft Office InfoPath 2003 10 N/A

Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003 10 N/A

Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003 Service Pack 2* N/A N/A

Microsoft Office Project Professional 2003 10 N/A

Microsoft Office Project Server 2003 1 N/A

Microsoft Office SharePoint Portal Server 2003 1 10

Microsoft Office Small Business Accounting 2006 (U.S. only)** 10 N/A

Microsoft Office Visio Professional 2003 10 N/A

Microsoft Office OneNote 2003 10 N/A

Microsoft Operations Manager 2005 Workgroup Edition 10 N/A

Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Standard Edition 1 10

Microsoft System Center Data Protection Manager 2006 MultiLanguage version 10 N/A

Microsoft Virtual PC 2004 10 N/A

Microsoft Visual Basic 2005 Express Edition 10 N/A

Microsoft Visual Web Developer 2005 Express Edition 10 N/A

Microsoft Virtual Server 2005 R2 Standard Edition 1 N/A

Microsoft Windows Server 2003 R2 Standard Edition 1 10

Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Web Edition 1 N/A

Microsoft Windows SharePoint Services Standard 2003 1 N/A

Microsoft Windows Small Business Server 2003 Premium Edition, R2, in all supported languages*** 1 10 X

Microsoft Windows XP Professional Upgrade Edition, including Service Pack 2 10 N/A

Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 Edition 10

Roadhog
10-16-06, 09:30 PM
I recommend buying the Microsoft Action Pack. For $300 you get 10 licenses and one media copy of Windows Vista, and 10 licenses of Microsoft Office with 1 media copy, and a ton of other useless junk I'd never use (but is cool to have around).


Explain this more please. :D