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GTVAPSAMTIK
10-30-06, 01:48 AM
I was about to list my GX2 for sale on ebay but quick Question before i sell it for trash. This factory OCed card already hit around 10.2k+ Scores on 3DMARK 06. According to these rumors G8800 hits around 12k in 06 . Seems like 12k is not even a 30% faster then GX2.

Can anyone give me logical reasons that convince me to upgrade from Geforce 7950 Gx2 to GeForce8800 right after its release. I can wait and get a Refresh Model of GeForce8800 ( like Geforce 8850 or something ) when DX10 titles start comming out ? What should i do. Ive always kept my GFX cards up to date but this upgrade dont seems like a big difference.

stevemedes
10-30-06, 01:54 AM
Heres one reason, wait for official benchmarks before making a buying decision.

Dazz
10-30-06, 04:16 AM
Infact it's really 10k, 12k if you have a quad core CPU as it adds around 2k points to your overall score. However look at it this way it's one GPU Vs 2 and in games that does not have SLI it will be alot faster.

jmacdonald801
10-30-06, 02:23 PM
Here is a question I always wondered. Don't you get more benefit of having a single card that can make 10,000 3D marks instead of two cards that make 10,000 3D marks? If you already have the SLI cards then I don't see much point to go to a 8800GTX, at least for now.

By single card I mean, no SLI hassles, faster support for a wider range of games (no SLI profiles needed), less trouble with broken interim beta drivers that provide better results for single card configurations, single cards requiring less power and less slots... Not to mention the price. Seems like things get faster every 6 months. So I'll buy two of these $800 GTX8800's and then in a few months there might be a process revision or something to make the single cards faster yet again, the price will have dropped 20%, ATI will have competition in the market.

I know it's great and wonderful to have the fastest, like right now, but I consider my wallet pretty wide open and even I don't see much reason to go SLI. Ok the high resolution is one very good reason I will admit. But I also don't have much interest in a 30" Dell or Apple super hi-res monitor which will not meet the near 2ms requirement I would have for gaming anyways...

I know this is a little off topic, but it seemed a good place to pose the question. The 7800/7900 serious did have a long lifespan and I do consider the SLI configuration in that series to have been a much better investment but going forward... I mean, I always just waited for the next fastest card instead of going SLI, are these reasons also considered by others for just waiting for the next fastest single card unit?

As to the original question... Probably wait until spring and see what ATI comes out with, what process shrink if any happens, wait to see how good the drivers are for VISTA etc... I would love to (and can) purchase this nice new 8800GTX but with Vista coming and ATI to follow, and possible driver issues, I just as well feel it's better to wait at least a little while this time before cracking open the money bags.

p.s. run on setences provided at no extra charge.

a_big_burger
10-30-06, 03:00 PM
G80 GTX will be very expensive card! I learned my lesion. On last year, I spent $720 and bought a BFG 7800 GTX 512 card. When 7900 GTX came out in the early of this year, it only cost $550 and it was faster. Next generation card is definitely worth buying because of DX 10 and new PC game titles. But I don't think I will buy it at this time. I will wait until Window Vista comes out. I also want to find out how R600 competes against G80.

Daydre@m
10-30-06, 03:24 PM
'Dazz' and 'stevemedes' said exactly what I think too. Wait for official benchmarks and see how it 'really' performs, dont just see the rumors and make a selling/buying decision.

Plus your comparing two Geforce 7 GPUs with a single Geforce 8 GPU , compare it with a single card and see the difference. Remember the speed of geforce 7 when it came, it was about 2x ( in performance of ) the single 6800Ultra but it was just slightly faster than two 6800Ultras in SLI. MultiGPU is good solution if you want high performance ( and have no other option ) but its not as efficient as a single GPU with about 2x the capability. Your GPU will work great in games which will support SLI but for the games that wont support SLI, it will work like a single GPU ( so keep that in mind ).

Last thing which I want to point out is the 'features'; even if your performance of multi GPU is great, you still wont get the features of the next generation line. When the geforce 7 came, it also had TSAA which was not supported by the 6xxx line ( although now the 6xxx line does support since geforce 7 was just an architectural refreash of the geforce 6 ) but in this case they are changing the whole architecture and they might be able to do much more stuff with it.

Skinner
10-30-06, 06:44 PM
I was about to list my GX2 for sale on ebay but quick Question before i sell it for trash. This factory OCed card already hit around 10.2k+ Scores on 3DMARK 06. According to these rumors G8800 hits around 12k in 06 . Seems like 12k is not even a 30% faster then GX2.

Can anyone give me logical reasons that convince me to upgrade from Geforce 7950 Gx2 to GeForce8800 right after its release. I can wait and get a Refresh Model of GeForce8800 ( like Geforce 8850 or something ) when DX10 titles start comming out ? What should i do. Ive always kept my GFX cards up to date but this upgrade dont seems like a big difference.

HDR+AA
HQAF
DX10 (Crysis)
SLI works great in 3DMark, but not as good in every game
(no wait for SLI profiles)

But as said above, waiting for reviews with gamebenches would be wise if you are not as crazy's as me and other folks here arround ;)

jmacdonald801
10-30-06, 06:48 PM
HDR+AA
HQAF
DX10 (Crysis)
SLI works great in 3DMark, but not as good in every game
(no wait for SLI profiles)

But as said above, waiting for reviews with gamebenches would be wise if you are not as crazy's as me and other folks here arround ;)

So the whole purchasing comes down to ones own sanity lol.

I've got a single 7900GTX, and I'm sure once I see how those RTM Vista drivers perform on the 8800GTX, I'll probably upgrade.

Sanity is completely optional I think.

-James

Skinner
10-30-06, 06:55 PM
So the whole purchasing comes down to ones own sanity lol.
-James

Well if (I did it too;)) one put their card on Ebay before the beans are out that is ;)

But I think it will be worth it, and prices are gonna drop for the current gen after the 8800 GTX is available.

SH64
10-30-06, 07:02 PM
HDR+AA
HQAF
DX10 (Crysis)
SLI works great in 3DMark, but not as good in every game
(no wait for SLI profiles)

Pretty much what Skinner said (esp the underlined) + no SLI compatibility issues.
there might be even more surprises that i cannot mention right now .. but lets say physics acc. & the unified shader concept which might change things dramatically for next gen games.

& let me point out to something : the SLI advantage changes for each game .. so its 70% for a game , 30% for other & 0% for some other game ..etc
the 8800GTX (should/could/might/will) be ~ 80%-100+% for each game.
so with a little math its a HUGE difference & really worth it.

Blacklash
10-31-06, 10:26 AM
HDR+AA
HQAF
DX10 (Crysis)
SLI works great in 3DMark, but not as good in every game
(no wait for SLI profiles)

But as said above, waiting for reviews with gamebenches would be wise if you are not as crazy's as me and other folks here arround ;)

G80s are going to have improved AF? Perhaps near angle independent? Add that to HDR+AA and the massive memory. Hmm.

If that is so it's going to be very hard for me not to buy one at release. I need to stay off the forums :p

russ_3d
10-31-06, 11:11 AM
has anyone got a paper or description of angle independent AF?


some pictures to show the difference would be lovely

shoman24v
10-31-06, 11:25 AM
I think it's wise to go G80 when Vista gets released. But I also think it's wise to wait and not jump on the G80 ship right when it comes out.

Xion X2
10-31-06, 12:02 PM
has anyone got a paper or description of angle independent AF?


some pictures to show the difference would be lovely


http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=anisoqualbgvr5.jpg

Riptide
10-31-06, 12:03 PM
I want to see a comparison between the G80 and the R600 before I decide to bite or skip on this gen. The GX2 has served me well and I'm getting to the point where I don't want to fork over $600+ every time a new card comes out. Maybe I'm getting old or something but I'm thinking skipping a generation isn't a bad idea. That said if the G80/R600 is really 2x as fast as my GX2 in practically every game - then I might be tempted. :p

Xion X2
10-31-06, 12:04 PM
I think it's wise to go G80 when Vista gets released. But I also think it's wise to wait and not jump on the G80 ship right when it comes out.

Why?

Riptide
10-31-06, 12:06 PM
Why?
I'm guessing for true DX10 support you'll need Vista. And when the cards first come out the cost will be atrocious.

Xion X2
10-31-06, 12:14 PM
I'm guessing for true DX10 support you'll need Vista. And when the cards first come out the cost will be atrocious.

That's not what I'm hearing. I'm hearing that on launch day the cards will be cheaper than they will in the following month when there are shortages.

And aren't there trial versions of Vista out already? Flight Sim X is already one DX10 title that's out.

Riptide
10-31-06, 12:17 PM
That's not what I'm hearing. I'm hearing that on launch day the cards will be cheaper than they will in the following month when there are shortages.
I'll believe that when I see it.
And aren't there trial versions of Vista out already? Flight Sim X is already one DX10 title that's out.
Trial versions? lol

Xion X2
10-31-06, 12:18 PM
I'll believe that when I see it.

Well, that's the consensus on the forums here. Everybody who ordered either the GTX or GX2 on launch day, that is.

Trial versions? lol

Beta, whatever. *rollseyes*

Riptide
10-31-06, 12:20 PM
Well, that's the consensus on the forums here. Everybody who ordered either the GTX or GX2 on launch day, that is.
The price on my XFX XXX didn't go up. So that wasn't my experience. Sorry but I'm skeptical.
Beta, whatever. *rollseyes*Yeah and a LOT of people out there aren't going to be interested in loading a prerelease operating system. Some might though, so for a minority you might have a point here.

Xion X2
10-31-06, 12:26 PM
Yeah and a LOT of people out there aren't going to be interested in loading a prerelease operating system. Some might though, so for a minority you might have a point here.

No arguments here, but then we're talking about semantics. The fact is that several people on these forums are running Vista now and having some success. That kind of debunks the theory that one should necessarily wait until the official release. It all comes down to personal preference.

On top of that, the G80 will enable several features in DX9 that haven't been done with prior cards for one to enjoy in the meantime. 16xAA, HDR + AA in unison, for a couple. So even if one isn't running Vista with it one will see significant gains right off the bat.

ASUSEN7900GTX
10-31-06, 12:43 PM
yeah well they will bw really expensive i can get two 20"TFT for the price of one 8800GTX

so i´m waiting until all bugs and stuff is worked out in the DX10 cards and vista and games and stuff so DX9 will live for a while longer.

:)

Skinner
10-31-06, 02:15 PM
G80s are going to have improved AF? Perhaps near angle independent? Add that to HDR+AA and the massive memory. Hmm.

If that is so it's going to be very hard for me not to buy one at release. I need to stay off the forums :p

Well it are just rumors yet, but a Geman (3dcenter) article talks about :

Alle Infos sind zusammengefasst aus dem PCGH Special 'Geforce 8800' Ausgabe 12/2006 S54ff

Hier ein paar Facts:
- 681mio Transen
- neue ROPs mit FP32 + MSAA
- 128 Steam Prozzies mit 1350Mhz (1 Skalar pro Takt) = 518,4GFLOP/s
- WUAF
- besseres Dynamic Branching
- besseres Eraly Z

Streaming Proc.:
Bisher konnten GPUs (Verktorprozzies) einen RGBA Wert auf einemal berechnen. Da aber nicht immer vier Vektoren benötigt werden müssen die ALUs nicht mehr 3:1 oder 2:2 aufgeteilt werden. Somit steigert die die effizeinz. Ein skalar ist im Prinzip ein einkanaliger Vektor. Der Shader-Compiler hat somit einen einfacheren Job.
Die 128 Streaming Proc. sind aus gründen der Cacheverwaltung zu 16ALUs zusammengefasst. Jede dieser ALUs kann pro Takt eine MADD und eine MUL ausführen.
Wenn man die reine MADD Leistung vergleicht kommt man auf 345,6GLOP/s

Textureinheiten:
Acht Bilineare Textureinheiten sind integriert. Allerdings nur 4 Textur Address Proc. pro Gruppe. Insgesamt können daher 64 bi-Texel pro Takt berechnet werden, aber nur 32 adressiert. Die restlichen TMUs können per Koordinaten Offset zusätzlkiche Daten samplen, wenn wenigstens eine Dimension mit der ersten übereinstimmt (z.B. 2:1 Bi-AF).
TMUs haben eine eigene Adresseinheit, es muß nicht mehr der Pixel-Shader verwendet werden. -> TMU Latenz entschärft.

ROPs:
Es gibt 6 ROP Cluster, jeder Cluster ist mit 64bit bei 900Mhz angebunden. Somit die 384bit.
Bei der GTS ist es ein Cluster weniger. Je ROP vier Pixel mit Farb- und Texturinfo.
Z-und Stencil-Ops weiter getuned.

AA:
Es wir 4/8/16 MSAA geben.
Neu ist zuschaltbares 'Coverage Sampling AA'. Dies ist ein Kopressionsverfahren, welches aber nicht immer Kompatibelsein soll. Die 16 Zufällig verteilten Subpixel verden auf den Bedekungsgrad als Booleanwert (Wahr/Falsch) gespeichert. Das ergebnis wird auf 4x oder 8x MSAA Kompromiert.

So yes it propably will be less angle independent AF.

btw, a summary of rumors:

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=1949593&frmKeyword=&STARTPAGE=1&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

john19055
10-31-06, 02:28 PM
If you have the money it would be worth upgradeing ,but looking at the prices I have seen a 8800GTX will sell for around $800 and if there are shortages ,I will guess a $1000 a pop or higher,I am broke so it is all out of my range ,My stuff is going to have to last me a year or some time by the end of next year.I got to enjoy upgradeing for a while but now I am stuck with what I have ,and maybe by then the prices will have come down.