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cvearl
02-24-03, 12:27 PM
Back in November, I happily whiled away my time on my G4Ti4200 knowing it was pretty good but better things were on the horizon. Most web sites and forum roamers were of the same mind. ATI's 9700 series was great and nVidia would be releasing a card to compete and prices would fall. More specifically it went like this...

In February, Geforce FX cards would be on store shelves. This would increase pressure on ATI and prices on the 9700 family wouls drop closer to a mainstream level as they would be right around the corner with the R350. ie; 9700 pro was $599 CDN where I live back in December. Here we are in February and it droped all the way to $589 or $559 if you wanted OEM. Not only have we not seen a notable drop on ATI Radeon 9700 Pro, it's getting near impossible to get a 9500 Pro unless you want an OEM card. Yes I know that I can get an OEM 9700 non-pro for $399 but really I was expecting that by the end of February the 9700 pro would be that price. In addition, the NV31 or little brother to the NV30 was supposed to be almost here and be priced to compete with the 9500 pro and be notably faster. I don't know about anyone here but I have heard next to nothing about this vaporware product. I refuse to spend over $350 CDN on a card to play games but I want a faster card than my current G4Ti4200! As of right now, there is nothing really in that price range to do this (at least in Retail product) and it is almost March.

I guess I am dissapointed that the expectations have not been lived up to. Anyone else feel that way?

Charles.

StealthHawk
02-24-03, 02:10 PM
isn't NV31 being launched this week along with 2 other products?

cvearl
02-24-03, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
isn't NV31 being launched this week along with 2 other products?

Oh I hope so! Just that things have been moving so damn slow, I don't want to hold my breath. Do you have any links to info about the NV31?

Charles.

StealthHawk
02-24-03, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by cvearl
Oh I hope so! Just that things have been moving so damn slow, I don't want to hold my breath. Do you have any links to info about the NV31?

Charles.

there's stuff in the hardware Rumor Forum. nothing "official."

Captain Beige
02-24-03, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
isn't NV31 being launched this week along with 2 other products?

:rolleyes: being "launched" doesn't seem to have done the NV30 any good...

Moose
02-24-03, 04:18 PM
It now looks like the R350 may actually beat the Nv30 out the door.

Yikes!!!

Hunter32
02-24-03, 07:25 PM
I bought the Ti4400 to save the $120 difference from the Ti4600 card, and because when I had bought this card. The rumor was the Gfx would be out in late summer. Fast forward to today and it's still MIA. I would of bought the Ti4600, if I had know it would be this long. So I'm still waiting for the GeForce FX, which I most likely won't get because of the noise. Now, I'm also waiting for the R350 from ATi to see what that has to offer.

tamattack
02-24-03, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by cvearl
9700 pro was $599 CDN where I live back in December. Here we are in February and it droped all the way to $589 or $559 if you wanted OEM. Not only have we not seen a notable drop on ATI Radeon 9700 Pro, it's getting near impossible to get a 9500 Pro unless you want an OEM card. [...] I refuse to spend over $350 CDN on a card to play games but I want a faster card than my current G4Ti4200! As of right now, there is nothing really in that price range to do this (at least in Retail product) and it is almost March.

Hi Charles. Don't know if you live in Ontario or not, but Canada Computers (http://www.canadacomputers.com/video.html) has the R9500Pro listed at C$298. Of course, I'm only assuming that is retail box (but recently they have only carried ATI retail box or Sapphire oem when it comes to 'Powered by ATI' products).

cvearl
02-25-03, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by tamattack
Hi Charles. Don't know if you live in Ontario or not, but Canada Computers (http://www.canadacomputers.com/video.html) has the R9500Pro listed at C$298. Of course, I'm only assuming that is retail box (but recently they have only carried ATI retail box or Sapphire oem when it comes to 'Powered by ATI' products).

Ya I have been watching them. They have the 9700 Pro retail for $489. Being in Western Canada though I have to pay $20 S&H so it's more like $509. That's the absolute lowest price I have seen on a RETAIL ATI branded 9700 Pro in Canada. It's about $150 too much for my budget (it's the principal of the thing). If it dropped to even $400 CDN I would buy it. At that ptice, my only option is the Saphire 9700 non pro OEM for $389 CDN from just about anyone up here. But I am not a card modder or overclocker. I want quality and performance and warranty right out of the box o I am a little afraid of the 9700 non pro. Hopefully when the R350 and RV350 hit the shelves in March/April, the 9700 Pro falls into my sweetspot!. I guess only time will tell and I will have to stop losing sleep over it until End of March.

Charles.

tamattack
02-25-03, 01:51 PM
I know what you mean, Charles. With the GFX fiasco that is NV30, I guess ATI felt no pressure to cut their prices any earlier than the R350 launch, if that.

cvearl
02-25-03, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by tamattack
I know what you mean, Charles. With the GFX fiasco that is NV30, I guess ATI felt no pressure to cut their prices any earlier than the R350 launch, if that.

My guess is that nVidia cannot get high enough yield on the chip to mass produce in enough quantity and as a result they use this "on allocation" BS to make it look like it's flying off the shelves when in reality hardly anyone at all is buying them except perhaps a few OEM PC manufacturers. Like Alienware for example. But how many losers pay almost twice what the computer is worth to have an Alien shaped Grill on the back of the PC.:p

I have been wanting to go back to the ATI camp since I first noticed the differences in desktop quality between them and nVidia many years ago. Looks like the 9700 pro is my intro back into the ATI camp.

Charles.

solofly
02-25-03, 04:44 PM
I'm still happy with my Ti4400. This image quality is only an opinion. To me GF3Ti and on IQ has improved to Matrox levels besides rock stable drivers that Ati can't beat.

OICAspork
02-25-03, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by solofly
I'm still happy with my Ti4400. This image quality is only an opinion. To me GF3Ti and on IQ has improved to Matrox levels besides rock stable drivers that Ati can't beat.

While the Matrox Parhelia supposedly has banding issues (I've never seen one in action, so I can't say for certain). I doubt ANY GF3 is on par in 2D with my old Matrox G400. Also, I think a lot of NVidia fans are going to be insulted yet again by the GFFX line... when they expect typical rock solid drivers for it. I expect it to have a lot more driver issues than the Radeon 9700 did on launch... and I expect comparing them to the current ATI drivers... won't put NVidia in a good light. ATI's current drivers are pretty darn rock solid too. ^^; Though I think I'm pretty lucky with ATI, I've only had one issue ever with a game since purchasing a Raedon 64ViVo about a month after launch, and an immediately available driver update took care of it (Color problems with the Viking game RUNE).

ASCI Blue
02-25-03, 10:58 PM
Been running a 64 ViVo for 2 years, no driver issues. Some of you nv fans look for anything to slam don'tcha guess it hurts being in the losing lot for once hm?

I do wish nv would hurry and release the 31 tho.

The Baron
02-25-03, 10:59 PM
Actually, I had some BAD driver issues relating to DVD playback on my Radeon 64 VIVO... specifically, it didn't work at all until I went back to a really blatantly old version ;)

tamattack
02-26-03, 12:16 AM
Baron: that was probably the ATI DVD player software? It's great for CPU utilisation and image quality, but really bad for stability, no doubt due to the cinemaster code that forms the basis for the older ATI DVD player software.

stncttr908
02-26-03, 07:05 AM
Originally posted by Rapture
I bought the Ti4400 to save the $120 difference from the Ti4600 card, and because when I had bought this card. The rumor was the Gfx would be out in late summer. Fast forward to today and it's still MIA. I would of bought the Ti4600, if I had know it would be this long. So I'm still waiting for the GeForce FX, which I most likely won't get because of the noise. Now, I'm also waiting for the R350 from ATi to see what that has to offer.
Actually the cooling on certain cards, like those from Gainward, should be very quiet compared to the reference cards that everyone has been slamming. However, with that said, the R350 should rock the GFFX back to the grave. I mean, take a look at the 4x4AA quality of the FX compared to the 9700 Pro, the performance levels are the same but the 9700 Pro delilvers much better quality. With the higher speeds and what have you, R350 looks to be my upcoming first choice.

MuFu
02-26-03, 09:41 AM
I wouldn't hold out for NV31. 300-350/550MHz, 6 ops/clk, 128-bit DDR-I. Doesn't sound too hot. It'll be launched at the GDC, but who knows when it will be available in large quantities? My guess is that it will be outperformed by the 9500 Pro & RV350 when using FSAA + AF. Perhaps slightly faster using legacy shaders.

The reason 9700 Pro prices have remained so high is obviously because ATi have had no competition in the high end for months. Should change pretty soon with 5800 & Radeon 9800 availability.

BTW, there's still time to jump on the 9500NP>>>9700NP bandwagon. Grab a 9500NP 128MB on the 942 PCB with Hynix memory, Soft9700 + flash the Pro BIOS and you're away @325/310MHz.

MuFu.

cvearl
02-26-03, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by OICAspork
While the Matrox Parhelia supposedly has banding issues (I've never seen one in action, so I can't say for certain). I doubt ANY GF3 is on par in 2D with my old Matrox G400. Also, I think a lot of NVidia fans are going to be insulted yet again by the GFFX line... when they expect typical rock solid drivers for it. I expect it to have a lot more driver issues than the Radeon 9700 did on launch... and I expect comparing them to the current ATI drivers... won't put NVidia in a good light. ATI's current drivers are pretty darn rock solid too. ^^; Though I think I'm pretty lucky with ATI, I've only had one issue ever with a game since purchasing a Raedon 64ViVo about a month after launch, and an immediately available driver update took care of it (Color problems with the Viking game RUNE).

Um well actually, I really doubt that the FX (while performance wise was a dissapointment) will have anywhere near the number of driver issues that the 9700 pro had at launch. Of couse I am only guessing. No one that has reviewed it have uncovered any driver issues and I would hope that they would have said somehting. Unless of course you count lower quality AA as a driver issue but ATI has always been the leader there.

Charles.

cvearl
02-26-03, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by MuFu
I wouldn't hold out for NV31. 300-350/550MHz, 6 ops/clk, 128-bit DDR-I. Doesn't sound too hot. It'll be launched at the GDC, but who knows when it will be available in large quantities? My guess is that it will be outperformed by the 9500 Pro & RV350 when using FSAA + AF. Perhaps slightly faster using legacy shaders.

The reason 9700 Pro prices have remained so high is obviously because ATi have had no competition in the high end for months. Should change pretty soon with 5800 & Radeon 9800 availability.

BTW, there's still time to jump on the 9500NP>>>9700NP bandwagon. Grab a 9500NP 128MB on the 942 PCB with Hynix memory, Soft9700 + flash the Pro BIOS and you're away @325/310MHz.

MuFu.

That's only if you are into modding. I am not. I want performance/stability and warranty out of the box. But that's just me getting old. Hopefully March brings the tides of change to the mainstream market. As far as I am concearned, I want a sub $250 US card that is faster than a G4Ti4600 as I beleive that it is time for that right now. Yes the 9500 Pro can be considered but it is not quite there for me. I nearly bought one this week. Perhaps a sapphire 9700 non pro RETAIL or the one for Hercules will be my next card once they come down a little further in price. I really thing that 256 bit memory thing is going to be an issue in the very near future with Doom III and everyhting else that is comming out. I am kinda hoping that there will be a Mainstream Part based on the R350. Just like the 9700 Pro had the 9500 Pro. Sonehting that will come in under $400 CDN. Right now the 9500 Pro is $319 CDN. I could buy it but (while a tad faster) it wont blow me out of my seat when comparing it too my G4Ti4200.

Still waiting...

ReDeeMeR
02-26-03, 12:13 PM
*waits for R350* ATi claims that R350 will be the fastest solution untill the end of this year and that's what I'm shooting for now(longelivity), because I'm tired upgrading and constantly *waitig* for them stupid prices to go down.

Assuming they will hold to what they promised ue 150$ cheaper.

stncttr908
02-26-03, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by ReDeeMeR
*waits for R350* ATi claims that R350 will be the fastest solution untill the end of this year and that's what I'm shooting for now(longelivity), because I'm tired upgrading and constantly *waitig* for them stupid prices to go down.

Assuming they will hold to what they promised ue 150$ cheaper.
I know how you feel. One of these days I'm just going to say "Bah, what the hell" and get my system, and not worry about future considerations quite as much.

Rogozhin
02-26-03, 01:18 PM
Charles.

I could get you a sapphire 9700np for $230 and ship it to you.

rogo

cvearl
02-26-03, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by Rogozhin
Charles.

I could get you a sapphire 9700np for $230 and ship it to you.

rogo

Canadian or US funds??? Here in Canada I can get one for $389. If that's US, it would be converted to the same price.

Charles

Rogozhin
02-26-03, 09:32 PM
so 230 dollars US is equal to 389 canadian?

if that is the case i guess there would be no point. ;)

rogo