PDA

View Full Version : Better days ahead for NVIDIA?


SurfMonkey
02-26-03, 10:20 AM
Perhaps the NV30 was never meant to be? Perhaps nVidia set their sights to high, and Jen Hsun was over confident in their ability to bring CineFX from abstract to reality given todays level of technology. But if the following rumour, especially the heat part, is true then the NV35 should be the chip to look out for!


Those who are in the know said that Nvidia, which had a stand at IDF this year, were taking people round the back and showing them NV35, which works at 256-bit quite fine, and runs at half the heat of the NV30.


Source (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=7948)

Typedef Enum
02-26-03, 10:28 AM
NV35 is definitely not finished at this point in time. Showing a board is a much different animal than having them for sale :)

If you were to say that NV35 tapes out sometime in March...let's just say the end of March. ..you're not going to see them in retail until July, which is consistent with many NV35 rumours.

I also believe the time for making excuses on nVidia's behalf are over. Look, did anybody say, "Now this IS the product that ATI should have delivered, as opposed to that 9700!" No. The 9700 was/still a great piece of hardware. The NV30, on the other hand, is horrific in every conceivable way...low bandwidth, lousy IQ, too big, too loud, too expensive (both to buy, as well as manufacture), much slower Shader performance than expected, unable to deliver on their 500 MHz promise, etc. I mean, the list just goes on and on.

Anyhow, there's no real point in waiting on NV35...We're going to see R350 previews next week, and in a couple of months, R400 is going to be launched in/around NV35 timeframe.

SurfMonkey
02-26-03, 10:57 AM
I think you might be in for a suprise with the NV35!

And if what I have heard turns out to be hot air (sic) then I'll be buying an R350 for sure. Mind you I just blew 500 on a Sony Clie NX70V with 128Mb Sony Stick, that was my upgrade money for this month :(

digitalwanderer
02-26-03, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by SurfMonkey
And if what I have heard turns out to be hot air...


Can I say that nVidia's track record as far as being trustworthy about their upcoming GPU's PR sort of sucks lately and I wouldn't trust anything that Jen Hsun or anyone else from nVidia says anymore than I can comfortably spit a wet rat.........or would that get me labelled as a "fanATIc fanboy who's just here to cause trouble"?

C'mon, can anyone take anything nVidia says seriously lately? It's a bit past the "put up or shut-up" phase with them for me. :rolleyes:

volt
02-26-03, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by digitalwanderer
Can I say that nVidia's track record as far as being trustworthy about their upcoming GPU's PR sort of sucks lately and I wouldn't trust anything that Jen Hsun or anyone else from nVidia says anymore than I can comfortably spit a wet rat.........or would that get me labelled as a "fanATIc fanboy who's just here to cause trouble"?

C'mon, can anyone take anything nVidia says seriously lately? It's a bit past the "put up or shut-up" phase with them for me. :rolleyes:

I'm hoping NVIDIA learned from their mistakes :p
They cannot aford another FUD product. As to their PR, I doubt things will change here.

I'm sure they are working hard to get NV35 out to the market as soon as possible. Whether you take NV30 seriously now it's a matter of preference. They know they've made a big poo poo, I think NV35 will clean things up as long as it's not delayed.

Hanners
02-26-03, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by volt
I'm hoping NVIDIA learned from their mistakes :p
They cannot aford another FUD product. As to their PR, I doubt things will change here.

To be fair, nVidia have always learned from their mistakes in the past, so I don't imagine they'll be making the same mistakes again. Whether they'll be able to rectify those mistakes as early as NV35 remains to be seen (it all depends on how much of a refresh the part is), but there's no way that this current situation will be the death of them.

Despite all the marketing, PR and FUD coming out of nVidia right now, I bet behind the scenes they know they messed up this time round, and will be looking to make sure they don't do so again.

Sazar
02-26-03, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by digitalwanderer
I wouldn't trust anything that Jen Hsun or anyone else from nVidia says anymore than I can comfortably spit a wet rat.........

thats just sick... why would you want to spit a wet rat ?

:eek:

:D

John Reynolds
02-26-03, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by SurfMonkey
I think you might be in for a suprise with the NV35!

And if what I have heard turns out to be hot air (sic) then I'll be buying an R350 for sure. Mind you I just blew 500 on a Sony Clie NX70V with 128Mb Sony Stick, that was my upgrade money for this month :(

There'd better be some radically improved AA modes on that chip or I won't even begin to consider it. And knowing Nvidia, I somehow doubt there will be.

MuFu
02-26-03, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by Typedef Enum
If you were to say that NV35 tapes out sometime in March...let's just say the end of March...

It taped out on January 9th.

MuFu.

jbirney
02-26-03, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by MuFu
It taped out on January 9th.

MuFu.

I think he ment final ready to ship version. Then what 100 days to ramp.....

surfhurleydude
02-26-03, 02:29 PM
geforce 2 made it from tapping out to retail availibility in about 90 days I believe... The most nVidia has ever taken before GF FX was around 120 days. If the NV35 tapped out January 9th, I don't see why the NV35 couldn't be in our computers by May... That's almost the same amount of time as NV30 from tapping out until now.

Hellbinder
02-26-03, 04:44 PM
It taped out on January 9th.

MuFu.

*cough* Bs * Cough*... :)

John Reynolds
02-26-03, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by MuFu
It taped out on January 9th.

MuFu.

If true, I honestly feel sorry for anyone who pre-ordered or actually buys a FX board.

MuFu
02-26-03, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by Hellbinder
*cough* Bs * Cough*... :)

lol.

Thing is, that is too soon for them to have made any major changes to the ASIC (with the exception of the 256-bit controller & tweaks/fixes). The process change will yield huge gains alone, but I know there have been quite a few people expecting a broadening of the pipeline (perhaps the ability to output 16 zixels/clock).

Keeping my ears peeled for news of A02 samples now - if there is no sign of them within a few weeks then that will almost certainly mean they have begun a pre-production control run of the first samples (takes about a month). First-passing the silicon would be massively beneficial to nV right now.

MuFu.

hithere
03-01-03, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by MuFu
lol.

Thing is, that is too soon for them to have made any major changes to the ASIC (with the exception of the 256-bit controller & tweaks/fixes). The process change will yield huge gains alone, but I know there have been quite a few people expecting a broadening of the pipeline (perhaps the ability to output 16 zixels/clock).

Keeping my ears peeled for news of A02 samples now - if there is no sign of them within a few weeks then that will almost certainly mean they have begun a pre-production control run of the first samples (takes about a month). First-passing the silicon would be massively beneficial to nV right now.

MuFu.

do you think they might have had time to implement low-k, better insulating materials and such? I don't know much about what TSMC is doing these days...

MuFu
03-01-03, 01:16 PM
Have to correct myself: doesn't look as if there will be a process change. Low-k seems like a no-go based on what Huang Jen-Hsun said in a recent interview.

Looks like the bulk of the performance gain will come from tweaks/optimisations, die/process refinements, the 256-bit memory interface and a couple of new/updated features.

MuFu.

tazdevl
03-01-03, 01:25 PM
Like a bigger fan... sorry I couldn't resist. :D

hithere
03-01-03, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by MuFu
Have to correct myself: doesn't look as if there will be a process change. Low-k seems like a no-go based on what Huang Jen-Hsun said in a recent interview.

Looks like the bulk of the performance gain will come from tweaks/optimisations, die/process refinements, the 256-bit memory interface and a couple of new/updated features.

MuFu.

From what I understand, the low-k process is up in the air right now. Trident demonstrated Nevellus Coral (a carbon-doped oxide) as a CVD low-k option in April last year; you have Black Diamond, Black Diamond 2, and Aurora competing as solutions there. These solutions appear cheaper at first, and are certified to take us to 90nm. But then on the spin-on low-k side you have Dow touting its Silk, with JSR and Honeywell offering competing products in that field, and although it appears a more expensive process at first, a lot of the machinery needed is already out there, and the process is, according to Dow at least, good to take us 65nm.

I don't think the process is mature enough to bet on at this point, at least not for a relatively small company. If I were Nvidia, I'd leave it up to Motorola and Intel and such to forge ahead, and wait for the results. Kinda like ATI did with the 13 process and nvidia;)

kyleb
03-01-03, 01:43 PM
that all sounds good but i don't trust down any further than i can swim in open water without contamitating myself with their chemical waste though. ;)

MuFu
03-01-03, 01:45 PM
I think TSMC are using Novellus' CVD films as well (for their 0.13u low-k process).

Could well be fine for simple dice but 100mill+ transistor FCBGAs? Probably not. Not without major yield issues anyway.

MuFu.

CBGB
03-01-03, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by digitalwanderer[/i]
C'mon, can anyone take anything nVidia says seriously lately? It's a bit past the "put up or shut-up" phase with them for me.

Here here!

I was one of those caught up in the hype of the FX card. I waited and waited, all the while the Radeon got killer reviews.

I couldn't take it anymore and bought one (Radeon 9700 pro from a Nvidia Geforce 3).

Thank god I did, the FX blows... literally.

I'm not taking much stock in anything Nvidia is saying, especially after the FX hoopla (It'll blow doors off everything!! Just wait, wait!!)

No thanks, I'm happy as a clam with my card, and I ain't going back until they start blowing some serious doors off the competition, and not just in the noise department.

CBGB
03-01-03, 10:11 PM
Ahh, don't pay attention to that Riva 128 under my username. That's not really correct (As a matter of fact, I've never heard of the Riva 128).

As soon as I figure out how to change that, I will.

Who'd a thunk it. Instead of saying where I was from, or anything, it says what card I have.

kyleb
03-01-03, 10:51 PM
that was the oldshcool nvidia chip, the title just means you are new to the forums. don't sweat it. ;)