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nvToni
11-11-06, 02:26 PM
Ok first of all don't get mad becouse this has been discussed zillion times but I have a question regarding my upgrade !

This is my system:
Amd Athlon 64 3000+
DFI Lanparty Ultra - D
2 GB Kingston DDR

Now I'm thinking of the new 8800 series but haven't decided yet on GTS or GTX and as many people say that my CPU is crap for this kind of graphic card so I'm asking you what to do ?

Should I buy an X2 first and than upgrade to 8800 series ? I'm still on socket 939 and don't want to completly update my system (switch to Core2) becouse of budget limitations.

But I want to be able to play games like Bf2142 at 1280 x 1024, all max graphics settings, 4 x AA and 16 x AF at a decent framerate (40 - 80 fps) ?

Please help me understand this CPU/GPU relationship and advise me what to do for the best gameplay results.

Thx
Toni

anticitizenzero
11-11-06, 02:28 PM
Since your going to be playing games at that resolution, you would probably be better off upgrading your CPU first, and then upgrading a graphics card. If you were to be gaming at higher resolutions than that, it would be more cost effective to buy a graphics card.

SH64
11-11-06, 03:05 PM
Thats PCI-E system we are talking about right ??
in that case , well yes your CPU is crap for a GTX. first start off with a decent dual-core CPU thats compatible with your current mobo .. like a 3800+ .. & then get a 8800GTS. that should keep your system kicking for a while & will give you even more when you move to a C2D.

Cyant
11-11-06, 04:44 PM
Well personally I would go for the eye candy first. The 3000+ while not state of the art should be enough to have playable framerate in almost any games. I would go for the 8800. That way you can play in 1280x1024 16xAA 16xAF with the very much improved visual quality of the filtering the 8800 provide even if you don't reach 140FPS it should still be very playble and most importantly a STABLE framerate.

From then on you can upgrade the cpu and boost the frame per seconds. if you boost the CPU now then you can get slightly better FPS but it shure won't be stable, it will vary a lot depending on the scene.

What is your current card? Make sure your PSU is up to the task too.

MUYA
11-11-06, 04:49 PM
Yup, a stable fps....but with min fps at least around 30 fps...th max could be 150 with a c2d 6800 but..really, if the min fos you get with your cpu is 30 fps and then average of 60-100 is more than good enough right?

nvToni
11-11-06, 05:17 PM
Well currently I have a Radeon X800 XL 265 Mb and a game like Bf2142 is running only from 30 - 45/50 FPS and thats everything on medium and 2xAA and 2xAF and only on 32 man servers.

PSU might be a problem - I mean I have an LC Power 550W but my 12V railes are only 18A and I think that I have read somewhere that 30A is requred ?

Yeah I would be happy very much if I could be running this game and those in near future with 60 - 80 FPS constatnt (I mean you guys hitting 120 - 140 FPS is just extreme) becouse that is nice and playable. It's just the matter of GTS or GTX now!

Thx

Cyant
11-11-06, 05:24 PM
2xAA <<<---- Kill your performance with the x800XL

SH64
11-11-06, 05:28 PM
W
PSU might be a problem - I mean I have an LC Power 550W but my 12V railes are only 18A and I think that I have read somewhere that 30A is requred ?

No not PSU problem. & those 30A requirements are for the 8800GTX.

a better CPU will definitely help in crowded servers.

i did a test once between my 4800+ & my friend's Athlon XP3000 on a 32/64 server & needless to day i pwnd him. he was like in 20s & i was in 40s.
(we reduced the graphics settings to make sure GPU dose not get in the way).

nvToni
11-11-06, 05:37 PM
So if I would go with the GTX I would also have to replace my PSU ?

SH64
11-11-06, 05:40 PM
If your PSU have 2x12v rails & each of 18A then its a total of 36A. you should be fine in that case.

nvToni
11-11-06, 05:51 PM
Yes that is what it's printed on the label on the side of the PSU:

+12V1 = 18A
+12V2 = 18A

That is great and now I might get the GTX.

NoWayDude
11-11-06, 05:52 PM
GTS for your system all the way. Just crank up the AA and AF
That was the decision i made on mine. mainly because of my monitor resolution

shoman24v
11-11-06, 05:54 PM
Going dual core isn't going to make your game run faster unless the game is multi-threaded. If you can OC your CPU to 2.5GHz+ go for a 8800. Though, trying to justify a card that powerful on your low(er) resolution monitor is tough. I'd save some money and go with something else besides the G80, something cheaper that matches your CPU. The X1900XT and X1950XT are both great choices that cost half the price of a 8800GTX and should give you great performance for the resolution you run. The X1900XT will put your X800XL to shame.

If you went with the G80 you'd be able to crank up your AA to the max, but having that card isn't going to help your CPU limitation. Even with a G80 BF2142 could run at the same framerates because of your CPU bottleneck. Now is it worth spending that much to have it look better but not perform better? You decide.

Cyant
11-11-06, 06:39 PM
It will perform better. The x1900 is good but why go for it instead of the G80? I mean if you can afford a GTS/GTX then go for it. If you change for a x1900 now then a better CPU later and in 9-12 months decide you need better/faster or something that support DX10, then you will have wasted your the x1900$$.

Lets say you have a low-mid range CPU and a low-mid range card. Then decide to get a mid-range card (sorry but x1900 IS mid-range now hehe).

You then have a low-midrange CPU and a mid-range card. In 3 months you buy a CPU. Lets say you get one a Conroe 2.4Ghz 4 MB cache. (with motherboard etc...)

You then have a High end CPU and am mid-range card. What will you do in december 2007 when the new game you bought run like molase on the x1900 with all the eye candy turned on? Run it on medium with no antialiasing? Buy another vid card for 300$?

Fook that, get a G80 now and I pretty much garantee you you can keep it 2-3 years before it become too slow to your tastes. The x1900 theres a good chance you might want to upgrade again by this time next year when you try the new games in the works...

Redeemed
11-11-06, 07:27 PM
It will perform better. The x1900 is good but why go for it instead of the G80? I mean if you can afford a GTS/GTX then go for it. If you change for a x1900 now then a better CPU later and in 9-12 months decide you need better/faster or something that support DX10, then you will have wasted your the x1900$$.

Lets say you have a low-mid range CPU and a low-mid range card. Then decide to get a mid-range card (sorry but x1900 IS mid-range now hehe).

You then have a low-midrange CPU and a mid-range card. In 3 months you buy a CPU. Lets say you get one a Conroe 2.4Ghz 4 MB cache. (with motherboard etc...)

You then have a High end CPU and am mid-range card. What will you do in december 2007 when the new game you bought run like molase on the x1900 with all the eye candy turned on? Run it on medium with no antialiasing? Buy another vid card for 300$?

Fook that, get a G80 now and I pretty much garantee you you can keep it 2-3 years before it become too slow to your tastes. The x1900 theres a good chance you might want to upgrade again by this time next year when you try the new games in the works...

I second his comments.

Get the G80 now. If you can afford the GTX then great, get that.

One thing you need to be warned about:

Since your PSU is a dual-rail PSU, you DO NOT have 36amps available for the GPU. Dual-rail PSU's don't work that way. With a dual rail PSU, the first rail is dedicated to the CPU. As such, any amps unused by the CPU are NOT usable for other components. In essence, they go unused.

As such, you must only look at the amperage left on your second 12v rail. That is 18 amps. 18 amps to power everything in your computer except for your CPU. I think that you can run ONE 8800GTX, but definitely not another. If you wanted to go SLi you would have to get another PSU.

And in regards to you CPU, it is crap. Especially for any newer game coming out. You guys are forgetting that in Alan Wake and Crysis the physics effects are all done on the CPU. I guarantee his system would croak if he kept his current CPU.

My recommendation would be get the fastest s939 cpu you can. That, paired with a single 8800GTX or GTS should last you a long time. Get some beefy air cooling for that new CPU as well. That way you could OC it some to squeeze even more from that 8800GTX or GTS. I recommend you settle for nothing less than a s939 3700. If you can get anything that fast or faster (be-it dual core or not) that would be better. Heck, the 4000+ would probably be sufficient enough. If you can find one. ;)

Here is a list of some pretty good CPUs, all from Newegg.com:

A64 4000+ (OEM, so you can get a good after market cooler) :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103528

A64 3700+ (Retail packaging, but I'd scrap the stock cooler and pick up a better one) :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103539R

A64 x2 4600+ (Retail packaging, again I'd scrap the stock cooler and go for a better one) :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103545

A64 3800+ (Single core, Retail Packaging, scrap stock cooler and get a better one) :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103531

Or, if you have the cash, any here would work out just fine- though they'll be a bit pricey:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Category=34&N=2010340343+50001028+1051707439+105101309&Submit=ENE&SubCategory=343

Any of those procs would work fine now, and later you could probably add an extra 400Mhz easy to 'em to help your 8800GTX or GTS out when you need to (so long as you have the appropriate cooling).

That is my recommendation. The choice is ultimately yours. If I were you, I'd probably get the new proc and the 8800GTS. Why? Cause even the best on s939 will be bottlenecking the GPU some. As such, by getting the 8800GTS you'll "shrink" that bottleneck. And if you were to get, say, the A64 FX-60 and the 8800GTS- that rig would last you several years I'd bet. Especially since it is dual core and more apps and games are going to be designed for multi-core systems. If I had the cash, that'd be the combination I'd go with (FX-60 and 8800GTS).

Choice is yours though. ;)

Cyant
11-11-06, 07:41 PM
Personaly those CPU are not realy interesting...

This is a much better choice if you are going to upgrade your CPU http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103588
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103586

I have an Opteron 165 and it's great.

nvToni
11-12-06, 03:35 AM
To everyone - Thanks for all your help also to you Redeemed for your detailed explanation.

Well I think that first I'll go with an X2, aftermarket cooler and OC a little bit and after that I'm getting GTS/GTX (?).

Thx

Toni