MMORPG Recommendation Please - Quite Long

[MalakithSkadi]

Hi Guys,

Im looking for a new game to try and fill what is most likely a very picky set of preferences. I dont really rate my chances but well, the combined knowledge of this board will hopefully find it should my holy grail exist

Background

Star Wars Galaxies - (From launch -> Combat patch), EVE Online - beta test and after for a bit, Everquest II (At release - quit rather soon after), Guild Wars and finally World of Warcraft (launch -> 2 years).

What I liked in the games.

SWG - The way you owned your own home, player cities, business'. Just the whole social side of the game

Eve - errrm.... The diversity of skills allowing you to pretty much be what you wanted to be... wasnt overly impressed by the no matter how much work you put in you never catch someone starting before you though. Oh and Dying is actually a bad thing, yet not totally crippling aslong as you took the correct precautions (insurance / clone). So you fear it, but dont hate it so much you stop playing

Everquest II - Finally a game that gets my idea of a Ranger! Then I got hit with the no solo, no PvP even though they had two perfectly opposed factions ripe for useage

Guild Wars - ...... it was free... yea, thats about it.

WoW - The combat system with cooldowns and a large number of abilities as opposed to the combat queue or limitation on "active" abilities like SWG and Guild wars. Also the general principal of a PvP server, Friendly, Contested and Hostile territorys (Although I still maintain they screwed this over with honor and BGs)



So to summerise whats turned into a rather long rant, the features I would like in a game.

1. Some social content, obviously not to the scale of SWG but something to do other then goto X instance with Y amount of people and bash stuff. People interraction basically. I want to know the players around me other then Their X class with Y skills and are good at slaying NPCs...

2. A PvP system that is more then just Duels and miniture arena fights. But also preferably not something like a WoW battlefield. I guess "World PvP" sums it up best, so you can use the surroundings and some actual brain power.

3. The abiltity to do stuff on my own, obviously not expecting to do everything this way. But if i log on at 1am and all my friends are offline i dont want to have to sit there bored. Example being end game WoW, oh what can i do till raid time........ yes, exactly.

Im not too bothered about era, Fantasy, Sci Fi, whatever.



Hopefully someone was bored enough to read all that lot and id be grateful for any suggestions.

[Monolyth]

Nothing like this exists. There is a huge chasm created by WoW in the MMORPG world. Most developers and publishers are waiting for WoW's bubble to pop, which unfortunately will see at least a temporary boost in popularity (for an already popular game) with the Burning Crusade. They are afraid to release any new games with anything to challenge WoW's bait & switch tactics. "Let them level fast, let them farm forever for rep." Once people are hooked, you've got them. And now with proposed yearly expansions to be released we may be looking at the beginning of the WoW Dynasty in gaming...

[nVidi0t]

Malakith, with the new PvP system you can do stuff solo in WoW and not lose your life getting marshal gear. When you gain honor it adds to a pool which calculates lifetime honor so you can unlock items. It will no longer be calculated weekly.

[MalakithSkadi]

... Dont even try and tempt me back to WoW.

Wait 20 hours of the day for the 4 hour raid to the same boring place where most classes are locked into X, Y, Z talent build.

Or... randomly run around a Battleground getting "owned" by the premade team on the other side. Make my own premade? oh wait that means sitting around waiting for those people i have to raid with to be online again...

Get marshal gear? why? i have full Tier 2. WoW is dead for me, dont even try.

Thats not aimed at you by the way, thats me ranting at the crap of a game i wasted 2 years on.


Had a look at vanguard, seems the building and social system is there. The solo thing is there even if its leveling the crafting side of things. And they mention PvP servers of varying rulesets. So i guess thats the game im aiming at, just would be nice to find something to occupy me in the mean time as I am insanely bored.

[Tr1cK]

If a game keeps you hooked for 2 years, then how is it crap?

The average FPS doesn't have more than 10 hours worth of play to it. The average RPG won't have much more than 50 or so. With 2 years, you probably had a few thousand hours there.

[Monolyth]

I too played WoW since early closed beta and just recently gave it up. 2.5 years of a game is a very long time, especially with the time and effort put into it. Usually when a game like that turns to crap is when relations worsen inside the game or you find yourself most nights alone or unwilling to do things. I know that while I liked PvPing, I would never get top spot even if I tried my hardest, life you know...it gets in the way ;).

PvE, well I got about 1/3rd of the way through AQ40 with one of my guilds, and the other guild I was in was farming MC. But after 2.5 years, I was just tired of everything. I had done everything I could do in those 2.5 years and nothing interested me. Sure there was the short term satisfaction of finishing a quest or getting enough rep to get a weapon or armor or something, but that was it, and I realized this is how it's going to be for the next year with Burning Crusade and the year after that with the next expansion.

I have several R/L friends that play and still do, but I'm done, been off it for a month now and it feels good to have so much extra time in my life to do/try other things. I'm not sure after DAOC, SWG, FFXI, and WoW that I will ever play another MMORPG.

[|MaguS|]

Lineage 2... PVP always on, Massive Wars, Own a Castle with your Guild and control the economy of the areas around your castle. Raids aplenty... just have to deal with the Farmers but they are slowly going bye bye.

[Tr1cK]

I played from a week after release until about 2 months ago. Great game, just took too much dedication which I can't do since RL commitments are becoming more and more.

[mcolbourn]

yea I loved WOW too! (lost nearly 2 years playing it) but gave it up over two months ago and never looked back I have gone back to games you can put down and save when you like. But I will say after playing WOW I wanted to try a normal RPG and have got into Titan Quest and NWN 2 and love them both. The only MMO that I may try later next year is Warhammer Online.

[glObalist]

yea I loved WOW too! (lost nearly 2 years playing it) but gave it up over two months ago and never looked back I have gone back to games you can put down and save when you like. But I will say after playing WOW I wanted to try a normal RPG and have got into Titan Quest and NWN 2 and love them both. The only MMO that I may try later next year is Warhammer Online.

Exactly the same here:D

WoW (retired), TQ, NWN2, waiting for Warhammer. All other (MMO)RPGs have been or are turning out to be a big dissapointment to me.

[Tr1cK]

ditto on the TQ

[matthewcraig]

Here are my recommendations:

A Tale in the Desert - ATITD - Free to try and download. They have extensive social interaction and a neat idea. Like I said, free to try, so why not fool with it until while you are waiting on other games to come out of the pipeline? No combat... although, it's a very different game, so don't let the lack of violence keep you from giving it a try.

City of Heroes - CoH, CoV - Some good social interaction and good story. Cheaper to get into the game now. Content is a little short, however.

Final Fantasy Online - Not played this myself, but I am told it is group based PvE. I am planning to try it when I get some time.

I'm waiting for new MMORPGs to come out, too. Something with a clean interface, a polished rule-set and lots of social interaction. In my opinion, WoW misses the boat on social interaction. After playing for over a year, here is my experience: From level 1-55, I had trouble finding groups (as a healer, none-the-less) and finding terrible pick-up-groups. Members in my large guild were either too high or too low for a balanced dungeon run. Plus, you have to wait long times for people traveling across Azeroth to arrive.

I kept hoping that when I reached 60 that everything would change since everyone was the same level. Instead of nice, simple level 60 grouping, WoW drives level 60s to get their uber-gear through large raids. So, then I started hoping that getting into a raid guild would be where I would have the group-focused dungeon experiences. Didn't find it there either! Fast forward to a new server, getting yet another PC up to level 60, and me joining a raiding guild. Turns out, raids are the most boring things in the world... everyone standing around and doing their one or two things over and over... and WAITING... oh, gawd the waiting. Waiting hours for the raid to start, waiting 10-15 even 30+ minutes between fights...

In short, I spent over a year diving in the deeps of Lake Warcraft, only to find the social experience is simply not there. It's tragic because you look at the polished surface and think, well, it MUST be there somewhere. For me, it was very disappointing to find it was not. So, yes, very much hoping for those new MMORPGs to come out.

Here is the big question I will review in future MMOGs: Can you group with people of different levels and still have a fun experience? That's the tell-tale sign. If the game starts with the premise that players cannot work together unless certain requirements are met, then you KNOW the rest of the game is not going to be socially-inclined! Okay, rant off, good luck finding your next game.

[MalakithSkadi]

Seems whatever i look at just doesnt fit.

CoH / CoV - Too samey quest wise. Gets boring
Lineage 2 - bad reviews about the player base
RF Online - Slated at being a grind fest
Archlord - One of those games you have to play 24/7 to even get close to getting anywhere.


Oh well, guess its wait and see if Vanguard jumps on the Sony band wagon or actually delivers what it promises.

[glObalist]

How about LOTR Online? How is that shaping up? I still have some hopes after I've seen the gameplay videos.

Anyone in the beta?

[matthewcraig]

From what I heard about Vanguard and LotRO, it doesn't sound hopeful. Wait for the reviews on these, my friend!

Archlord is already out -- terrible, terrible reviews.

Is Neverwinter Nights II something you could sink your teeth into?

Sorry, got to use is icon:
(nana2)

[Sgt_Pitt]

i cant beleive you guys write off EQ2 that easily, its still the best mmo out there imo, the gfx **** on anything out there atm by a country mile

The gameplay is second to none. After 2 years, the game is still active and alive, and still manages to hold my interest, its like your all blind or something.

[matthewcraig]

Maybe you could answer something for me, Pitt. I would be willing to try EQ II, but it seems like you need to buy a bunch of expansion packs in order to play! What do you recommend to people you are getting into the game? Is there really an expectation that they buy all the expansion sets in order to be successful in the game? Do guilds ask you if you have all the expansions before they will admit you? Seems like a big cost to get started, not to mention the monthly fee. And, EQ seems to always be coming out with yet another expansion every couple months. How do you keep up with the costs?

While I have your attention, could you talk about downtime? One thing that bothered me about WoW was the announced emergency maintenance crashes and the weekly 1/2-3/4th day scheduled outage. I found it very unacceptable. How is EQ II?

[MalakithSkadi]

NWN2 - Got it, linear, unbalanced, pile a ****. My "Bow" ranger does more damage in melee then with his bow... and yes i have built it properly iv played enough D&D to know.

EQ2 - As stated, 6 million expansions, difficulty leveling due to the stage of the game. And in the end offers bugger all new compared to other games out there other then "looks pretty" unless you can correct me.


Looks like Hellgate: London is my only chance for happyness in the foreseable future as people iv heard from reliable sources that Vanguard has jumped on the SOE money train. Not that im surprised, if it has SOE or UBI on the box its 95% gurenteed to have something wrong with it or soon will have. EA arnt normally much better.

[matthewcraig]

What's the word on Gods & Heroes: Rome Rising (http://www.3dgamers.com/games/godsheroesrr/) ?

Looks like this MMOG is going to get released real soon.

[nrdstrm]

NWN2 - Got it, linear, unbalanced, pile a ****. My "Bow" ranger does more damage in melee then with his bow... and yes i have built it properly iv played enough D&D to know.

EQ2 - As stated, 6 million expansions, difficulty leveling due to the stage of the game. And in the end offers bugger all new compared to other games out there other then "looks pretty" unless you can correct me.


Looks like Hellgate: London is my only chance for happyness in the foreseable future as people iv heard from reliable sources that Vanguard has jumped on the SOE money train. Not that im surprised, if it has SOE or UBI on the box its 95% gurenteed to have something wrong with it or soon will have. EA arnt normally much better.

Wrong wrong wrong....They only thing sony has to do with Vanguard is the servers/billing/marketing. They have ZERO controle over content at this time. "But what if SOE buy Sigil" you say? This is my worry also, but for now, Sony is not influencing the game at all...

[MalakithSkadi]

uh huh... so sony marketing goes "yea we have the game ready by march" then then tell sigil "have it by march or we pull our funding"

oh wait, they dont have any influence do they?......

[|MaguS|]

uh huh... so sony marketing goes "yea we have the game ready by march" then then tell sigil "have it by march or we pull our funding"

oh wait, they dont have any influence do they?......

Funny considering that Sigil is fully funding the actual development and owns all rights to the product... if Sony tells them to release the title, Sigils answer will be "**** Off, its our game..."

Sony has as much control of Sigil as they have control over Insomniac... which is none. They just have a trust, if Insomniac wants to go develop a X360 title they are free too... Just Sony wont fund it nor publish it...

[IhopeNo]

Well some of that stuff know how the sounds like Goonzu Online, I don't quite know how the PvP battles work, but they look enjoyable enough. Plenty of skills (6 different weapon types, many manufacturing skills for economy, and recently added politics, run a town etc.) The player vs NPC stuff is good. It originated in Korea so there's ppl all over playing it, so you should have people on 24/7. And it's free I find it entertaining at least (sorry if you've seen this post before I'm gonna end up posting loong posts about this game (sorry)).

[The new guy]

How about Anarchy Online MalakithSkadi? Have you tried or researched that game?

[Hambone]

Maybe you could answer something for me, Pitt. I would be willing to try EQ II, but it seems like you need to buy a bunch of expansion packs in order to play! What do you recommend to people you are getting into the game? Is there really an expectation that they buy all the expansion sets in order to be successful in the game? Do guilds ask you if you have all the expansions before they will admit you? Seems like a big cost to get started, not to mention the monthly fee. And, EQ seems to always be coming out with yet another expansion every couple months. How do you keep up with the costs?

While I have your attention, could you talk about downtime? One thing that bothered me about WoW was the announced emergency maintenance crashes and the weekly 1/2-3/4th day scheduled outage. I found it very unacceptable. How is EQ II?

Guilds.... it's just like WoW. There are hardcore guilds and super casual guilds. For the first 50 levels you don't even need (and can't use) the expansions anyway.


EQ2 just had it's 3rd expansion pack released. So we are getting one expansion every 3/4 years (something like that).

The last expansion pack for EQ2 was released a month ago for $39.99: Echoes of Faydwer
http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=646702

Here's the good news:
As a cool bonus, it's a DVD release that includes the other two full expansion packs and the main game.
So for $39.99 you can buy the original game and the first three expansions all one one DVD set. A very nice deal.


Now, that covers you from level 1 to level 70. That's a freaking lot of game. If you started today you probably wouldn't reach level 70 until the next expansion is out, or most likely the one after.

Here's the release info:
http://eq2vault.ign.com/fullstory.php?id=23285

Here's a nice review of the expansion with screenshots:
http://pc.ign.com/articles/746/746931p1.html

Aside from that there are a couple (4 is it?) "content" patches, that are like mini-expansions. You have to pay maybe $5 for those. They are not necessary at all. Most people try one, some pay for all. It's really like buying extra dungeons that you don't need because there's so much other stuff to do.

Downtime: Right now Sony seems to have EQ2 at a near 24/7 uptime rate except for the weekly maintences that take a couple of hours (sat morning is it?). When a full expansion pack comes out, expect the servers to be down for a day. :p Overall the uptime is far better than WoW's.