Live on c-span "patriots for america rally" WOW!

[Red Dog]

what started as an anti-war protest was unexpectedly attended by Iraqi-Americans who spoke quiet eloquently in support of the Iraqi war.

very emotional, heartfelt, coherent speech by people who have endured much torture.

it may be on currently, try to catch it.

the victim refugees claim Iraqi citizens support the war and will not fight for sadaam. they claim a very short war.

they also claim they will rebuild Iraq themselves.

One man spoke only arabic and called france and russia and germany losers!

then he chants "people yes, saddam no"

he was a tribal leader who lost 154 peeps.


wow!

[1stFlight]

Well if Bush gets his way we'll see whether the Iraqi would rather

A) Be rid of Saddam and have democracy created after enduring the American made Smart Bombs ..which can miss. Oh did I mention, having their oil kept "in trust".

B) Fight for Iraq and live proud knowing that they tried and if nothing else got to put a hurting on us

I'm not for Saddam in any way shape or form, but I highly doubt the people of Iraq are going to roll out the welcome wagon and red carpet for our soldiers. Call me a realist.

[Red Dog]

big correction, NOT an anti war protest!

I appologize for my mistake.


the keynote speaker mentioned www.iraqiamericans.com

in particular he asked people to hit http://iraqcenter.com/
in order to view documentation of Sadams torture and oppresion.

He stated in an eloquent heartfelt manner that the Iraqi people have been undergoing a holocaust for 34 years.

he pleaded for nato support and even called on nato to stop supporting sadam and free the iraqi people through enacting a final resolution.

He asked nato, the liberal front and muslems around the world "what side of history do you want to be on?"

[Mod]

Originally posted by Red Dog

the victim refugees claim Iraqi citizens support the war and will not fight for sadaam...they also claim they will rebuild Iraq themselves...One man spoke only arabic and called france and russia and germany losers!

wow!

Why are you surprised ? Did you expect that a person that were PERSECUTED by Saddam wouldn't be mad at anti-war people and speak against them someday ?

[Red Dog]

no I wasnt supprised Mod,

It just has a different impact from the mouth of a victim.

I think there is a movement which feels there is no backing from the average Iraqi citizen.

I personaly support the Iraqi war. I will sleep better knowing Iraq is back in the hands of its people and free of any form of oppression.

34 years of torture, oppression is certainly a holocaust.

considering the Iraqi oil revenues alone there should be no conceivable reason that Iraqi citizens are suffering without the basic nescesities of the current era while their leaders image is adorned in gold at every intersection.

the whole Sadaam's image everywhere is just one fgin bizare manifestation of his meglomaniacal obsession with himself at the cost of his citizens.

Sadam has killed more muslems than ANYONE in history.

Now our sixth aircraft carrier is about to arrive in the gulf.

I have a feeling the Iraqi people will soon be able to take a deep, primal sigh of relief. very soon I feel.

what that must feel like for someone who has suffered for a lifetime I cant begin to understand.

[Red Dog]

I would also like to add, I will be very very pissed off if we make the same b.s. diplomatic mistakes we made at the end of desert storm.


We could have demanded unconditional surrender, instead we diplomatic pansied assed out and left Iraqi freedom fighters to the hands of sadam. believe the revenge is something you dont want to consider. one fighter was videotaped by sadam being immersed in acid so the tape could be shown to all.

we do the same sht this time, heads should roll.

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Totally agree Red Dog. Bush #1 really screwwed the military over. Schwartzkopf didn't help either by misleading the media about the containment of the Republican Guard. You can't contain anything with air power. You need troops on the ground, and you should give them as much time as they need. Who cares about how many hours the war is, would it really have made a difference if the ground war would have been 120 hours instead of 100? thats why we have to go back now:mad:

I saw some good French citizens supporting America today on TV, they were at the Eiffel tower doin' their thang;) In contrast with the protestors on the opposite side, these people look clean, and they didn't have anything derogatory on their signs or whatnot. These people looked calm and peaceful, they looked happy and I really liked the way they did it. No bullhorns or big displays to "show off" or antagonize anyone:D

[1stFlight]

"Good French Citizens" -- Sorry, are the bad ones the ones that oppose us or something? Strange I never knew having a different point of view made one bad. Of course I'm sure mr. Rumsfeld's comments have helped <sarcasm>tremendously</sarcasm>

Originally posted by [eNv]-LORD-eX-Bu

I saw some good French citizens supporting America today on TV, they were at the Eiffel tower doin' their thang;) In contrast with the protestors on the opposite side, these people look clean, and they didn't have anything derogatory on their signs or whatnot. These people looked calm and peaceful, they looked happy and I really liked the way they did it. No bullhorns or big displays to "show off" or antagonize anyone:D

[intercede007]

http://members.cox.net/intercede007/France.gif


Good citizenship :D

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by 1stFlight
"Good French Citizens" -- Sorry, are the bad ones the ones that oppose us or something? Strange I never knew having a different point of view made one bad. Of course I'm sure mr. Rumsfeld's comments have helped <sarcasm>tremendously</sarcasm>

yeah, you got it pretty right. Thats the way I feel. I think they are bad, why? look at the disgusting crap they have on their signs, don't tell me that having "F*CK BUSH" spraypainted onto an American flag was put on there by any good person. Don't tell me that having "The only Bush I trust is my own" written on a sign with a depiction of a woman's pubes is anything good either. Look at what these people are saying. They aren't going about their protest of war in any productive or clean manner. Alot of these people aren't exactly saints you know, so I stand by my statement:o

[1stFlight]

Hey, eNv we're not the only country with freedom of expression and honestly with the things Bush has let Rumsfeld say, the way he's been pushing heads of state around, who can blame them? At least we know they don't hate Americans, just Bush and that I can live with. Act like a A$$ expect to be treated like one. Notice, that no country ever held signs up like that about Clinton.

Originally posted by [eNv]-LORD-eX-Bu
yeah, you got it pretty right. Thats the way I feel. I think they are bad, why? look at the disgusting crap they have on their signs, don't tell me that having "F*CK BUSH" spraypainted onto an American flag was put on there by any good person. Don't tell me that having "The only Bush I trust is my own" written on a sign with a depiction of a woman's pubes is anything good either. Look at what these people are saying. They aren't going about their protest of war in any productive or clean manner. Alot of these people aren't exactly saints you know, so I stand by my statement:o

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by 1stFlight
Hey, eNv we're not the only country with freedom of expression and honestly with the things Bush has let Rumsfeld say, the way he's been pushing heads of state around, who can blame them? At least we know they don't hate Americans, just Bush and that I can live with. Act like a A$$ expect to be treated like one. Notice, that no country ever held signs up like that about Clinton.

And how exactly has Bush acted like an ass? What has Rumsfeld said to offend so many and deserve all the crap being flung at them from these protestors? France and Germany aren't all of Europe. There is still Britain, Italy, Spain, Lithuania and many other countries in Europe that support us. These protestors aren't helping their cause one bit by putting all the nasty junk on their signs and insulting us.

You know why you don't see these protestors saying anything about Clinton? HE DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! They applaud his scandal and besides, CLINTON IS ONE OF THEM!

[UDawg]

Originally posted by 1stFlight
Hey, eNv we're not the only country with freedom of expression and honestly with the things Bush has let Rumsfeld say, the way he's been pushing heads of state around, who can blame them? At least we know they don't hate Americans, just Bush and that I can live with. Act like a A$$ expect to be treated like one. Notice, that no country ever held signs up like that about Clinton.


I your argument is intellectually dishonest. You who defend the protestors always say "Sorry, are the bad ones the ones that oppose us or something?" This is a pathetic way to water down the argument when you point has failed. You take our points and generalize them, yet you never answer our points. I really can not stand this type of debate, infact it isn't a debate at all. The anti-war protest was lost when you refuse to answer the questions brought forth.

This whole so called anti-war act is lead by anti-apitalists, socalist flunkies and Bush haters. When you do not support this war you DO SUPPORT SADDAM. Saddam plays your anti-war blather on his goverment controled news programs for his people to propagandize them. He uses it to his advantage and in the end you are helping a muderous dictator stay in power.


YOU HYPOCRITS! you say "we have a right to express our opinions" yet you are not willing to help the Iraqi people gain the freedom to express theirs. The only time they can express their freedom is when they are in their graves. IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT because that is what you are really defending, the continual slaughter of inocent lives under his boot heel.

Vamp, Psy and the other leavel headed posters this is not a rant towards you. It is a rant towards the left wing extremist leaders who defend these tatics against freedom.

[Kruno]

big correction, NOT an anti war protest!

I think we all figured that through reading your post. :)

[Phyre]

I saw a little of that on CNN today. It was some very good stuff. I remember one of the veterans who spoke. He said that people are tired of all the talk. Ten plus years of talk and still no disarming of WMD by Saddam. I cannot believe how people can forget what this animal has done to others and his own people. Yet, when a country stands up and decides to take action, these people would rather fight it and accept a red, white, and blue dress with Taliban, Saddam, and Al Queda sperm on as they praise Clinton. Sure, save the whales and the trees and the friggin' owls. But, when it comes to an oppressed people, let's talk and talk and talk and talk and talk...while more of them die. Way to go!! Those are the kind of people I want to talk for me. Bah, it leaves a putrid stench in my soul.

Phyre

[The Baron]

OK... if Saddam disarms completely but remains in power--do we go to war?

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by The Baron
OK... if Saddam disarms completely but remains in power--do we go to war?

how do you know if he disarms completely :eek:

but if there was a way to ensure that he did, then i would say the case for war is greatly diminished.

[Phyre]

I say we get him out. Disarming doesn't free the burden carried by an oppressed people.

Phyre

[LORD-eX-Bu]

No, we just send Delta over to eliminate him. No need for war after that. Well, maybe, in order to eliminate the regime. But once you cut the regime's head off, it should just collapse anyways, its like the Saudis. Anyways, I don't think Saddam will ever disarm. You know those rockets he is supposed to be destroying right now? He just said that he will stop destroying them since he is going to fight the US anyways. So he wants the war;)

If it is not one thing with this guy it is another. He keeps playing games. Maybe he should do us all a favor and take up Russian roulette :o

[UDawg]

Originally posted by The Baron
OK... if Saddam disarms completely but remains in power--do we go to war?


We won't need to. His weapons are what keeps him in power. The process of taking him out will be slower but it will have a good chance to happen, is that what you want a slow process or a quick short war that will bring freedom to a people and hopefully stability there. Don't you understand that this is truely about security. To have a friendly country in a hostile region is a God send.

[silence]

Originally posted by [eNv]-LORD-eX-Bu
And how exactly has Bush acted like an ass? What has Rumsfeld said to offend so many and deserve all the crap being flung at them from these protestors? France and Germany aren't all of Europe. There is still Britain, Italy, Spain, Lithuania and many other countries in Europe that support us. These protestors aren't helping their cause one bit by putting all the nasty junk on their signs and insulting us.


hmmmmmm......about those countries,you maybe have official support but most east european countries did it only cause US "explained" them they need to back up Bush if they want any kind of aid in joining NATO.

public.....the ppl.......in all those countires are against war in Iraq >> i know,i live in one of those countries.


in Italy u have dock workers that strike cause they don't want to load ur weaps into ships......

u americans are so blind sometimes.talking about propaganda and stuff......wow.get some info, and tell that u really think all the ppl in the worls that don't like this war are bed??don't u think it might be something else??

[silence]

Originally posted by UDawg71

YOU HYPOCRITS! you say "we have a right to express our opinions" yet you are not willing to help the Iraqi people gain the freedom to express theirs. The only time they can express their freedom is when they are in their graves. IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT because that is what you are really defending, the continual slaughter of inocent lives under his boot heel.



freedom??.........wow.........i sure hope u'll help everybody else who needs freedom after u end this Iraqi act.......oh,do i hear "they don't have oil,they don't need freedom"???

do you really think this has ANYTHING to do with what iraqi people think or need??......c'mon,you can't be that naive.

[silence]

Originally posted by Phyre
I say we get him out. Disarming doesn't free the burden carried by an oppressed people.

Phyre

please google few facts....about how many countries have leadership that is opressing the ppl......that killed many of their own.......

then do another search........put word "oil" in it.........and u'll find only one country.....should it be surprise that's Iraq????

blah.......freedom??.......ur govermant would do deals with worst dictators if it's good for US business,don't talk about what u have no clue......

[silence]

one more thing.......did u know that most east european govermants that signed to back US are ex-communists?

ya,same guys that were listening to Moscow only a decade ago and now they listen to Washington. interesting,isn't it?....i mean right wing parties are AGAINST war in Iraq and socialist and ex-commies support you??:rolleyes:

[Mod]

Main Motives for Iraq War ( according to Bush :luv: :kiss: Blair ):

In the begining, nothing was no primary excuse was given, but than they decided for this.

1. The war was against terrorism.
It changed because very fewed outside US really believed that Saddam suported terrorists group linked to al Qaeda => changed it's primary reason to :

2.The war was against weapons of mass destruction.
Few outside US believed in a significant threat of Iraq, besides people didn't feel the need of suport US based on confusing photos taken by US satelite, and confusing videos transmission.
=> changed it's primary reason to :

3.al Samud violated 1441:
In most people's opinion it is indeed being destroyed ( almost 8% of them in 3 days) => changed it's primary reason to :

4.iraq people needs help:
most people have this opinion outside US : " :rolleyes: "

I really don't know what will happen from now on. Everything before this was not difficult to figure out.