NV31 & NV34 - Announced on the 6th, so let's try to do last-minute speculation!

[GlowStick]

I wonder whos strat will win. ATI decided that .13 is right for the value market, while nvidia choose .15. I beleive Nvidia will win the low end market, their prices are going to drop. We have seen an 80$ Ti4200 witch is a very good deal espically since its smokes the similary priced R9000pro, such a potent card for so little.

[Dazz]

I think ATi's way is better as you can get far more chips per sheet with 0.13m Vs 0.15m, which in the end is what is needed. Also it will need no active cooling so this would be good for OEM’s. But the RV280 is just a bumped up Radeon 9000 with 300/600 clock speed, it's still a DX8.1 card. WHile the Geforce FX 5200 is a DirectX 9 kinda card.

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by GlowStick
I wonder whos strat will win. ATI decided that .13 is right for the value market, while nvidia choose .15. I beleive Nvidia will win the low end market, their prices are going to drop. We have seen an 80$ Ti4200 witch is a very good deal espically since its smokes the similary priced R9000pro, such a potent card for so little.

What happens in a couple of weeks though when the 9500 is under $100 and can smoke the ti4200? :p

[GlowStick]

Originally posted by Dazz
I think ATi's way is better as you can get far more chips per sheet with 0.13m Vs 0.15m, which in the end is what is needed. Also it will need no active cooling so this would be good for OEM’s. But the RV280 is just a bumped up Radeon 9000 with 300/600 clock speed, it's still a DX8.1 card. WHile the Geforce FX 5200 is a DirectX 9 kinda card.

While you may beable to get more chips per sheet, their yeild may be lower. That ceo guy mentiond that Nvidia is TMSC's biggist buyer of .13 chips, so ATI may not beable to get as many chips as the demand, that would mean higher prices.

On the cooling issues value cards were never noisey and i dont think any compnay will ever have a problem with cooling them.

And i dont know what your implying about the GfFX being a Kinda card. The R350 and NV30 are more considerd DX9.0+ cards.

[GlowStick]

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
What happens in a couple of weeks though when the 9500 is under $100 and can smoke the ti4200? :p

One week? I want to watch for this one.

Also with the Built by ATI is 200+ and the OEM sapphire is 162.99$

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by Uttar
I really don't see how ATI "won" this round.
Sure, they won the NV31 vs RV350 fight.
But what proofs you they won the NV34 vs RV280 fight?
We don't even know the RV280 clockspeeds!
Nor do we know how things like caches have been tuned on the NV34, which could reduce performance.

IMO, the NV34 vs RV280 will be an interesting fight. The RV280 got better VS power - it pretty much can do the same thing as a mid-end CPU, but without using CPU time.
But the NV34 might have better fillrate performance.

It's hard to say, really.


Uttar

simple, whoever wins in the high end earns the heart of the people. additionally, RV280 will have the r9xxx name, deluding people into believing it could be in the same class as the r9500 or r9700. it's the same strategy that nvidia used with the gf4mx, and it worked.

people follow the throne, hook, line, and sinker. and ATI has it for now.

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by GlowStick
One week? I want to watch for this one.

Also with the Built by ATI is 200+ and the OEM sapphire is 162.99$

Better be watching like a hawk, 'cause I sure know I will be and I'm gonna swoop in on the first sub-hundred 9500/9700 Pro I can get me paws on!

I don't expect the 9500 Pro to RETAIL for $100 in a couple of weeks, I think I can get one for about $100 in a couple of weeks though.

You would be amazed at the prices you'll see people selling stuff on some forums "for sale" lounges, I've really scored some excellent deals there. I expect another round of early adopters dumping their current cards in a hurry when the newest/latest/greatest comes out, and that's where/when I find me happy deals at. :)

[GlowStick]

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
Better be watching like a hawk, 'cause I sure know I will be and I'm gonna swoop in on the first sub-hundred 9500/9700 Pro I can get me paws on!

I don't expect the 9500 Pro to RETAIL for $100 in a couple of weeks, I think I can get one for about $100 in a couple of weeks though.

You would be amazed at the prices you'll see people selling stuff on some forums "for sale" lounges, I've really scored some excellent deals there. I expect another round of early adopters dumping their current cards in a hurry when the newest/latest/greatest comes out, and that's where/when I find me happy deals at. :)


Im sure you could find a used Ti4200 from someone.

Meanwhile, im selling/tradeing 2 dimms of 256mb Samsung Registerd ram. Any takers, will trade for all 84 episodes of Knight Rider :D

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by GlowStick
Im sure you could find a used Ti4200 from someone.

Meanwhile, im selling/tradeing 2 dimms of 256mb Samsung Registerd ram. Any takers, will trade for all 84 episodes of Knight Rider :D

To the first one, I'm trying to NOT steal the one out of the PC I'm setting up for my friend and sticking my GF3 in there. (He wouldn't know... :angel2: )

Second, dang it! A KR fan, now I gotta go easier on ya... ;)

[GlowStick]

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
To the first one, I'm trying to NOT steal the one out of the PC I'm setting up for my friend and sticking my GF3 in there. (He wouldn't know... :angel2: )

Second, dang it! A KR fan, now I gotta go easier on ya... ;)

Woot! There is all 84 episodes of KR on ebay right now, but i cant afford to fork over around 100$ untill i get my videa card first :D I hope it goes back on

[Uttar]

Okay, so nVidia will announce the NV31 & NV34 today. But reviews are on the 10th.

So here's my last second speculation ( although a lot comes from reliable rumors & sources )
I'm only talking about *one* NV31 & NV34 model, because it's becoming fricking hard to understand what the heck is happening on the Ultra / Non Ultra front.
Some say the Non Ultra for the NV31 doesn't exist, others say the 350/275 model is the Ultra, and others say the Ultra is clocked at 350/350.
And sometimes, it all comes from the same source. Ouch!

Anyway, back to the point...

NV31 ( probably Ultra, but no promise ) :
0.13 Micron, Copper ( Cu has been confirmed, BTW, it's not Al ) on 8-Inch waffers
350/275Mhz ( 275Mhz or less enables a $4 per-board saving. Woot! Go nVidia, GO! )
4x1
6 Pixel Shading Units
40% of the NV30 per-clock VS efficiency ( but practically 50%, because there's some CPU help it seems - nothing visible to the bare eye, however! )
Fully supports CineFX & Intellisample technologies
2800 3DMark 2003, runs all the tests
Some NV30 bugs fixed, but many remain

NV34 ( probably non-Ultra, but no promise ) :
0.15 Micron, Al on 8-Inch waffers
250/200Mhz
4x1
4 Pixel Shading Units
+- 25% of the NV30 per-clock VS efficiency in basic VS programs. But a lot less in complex programs. This is due to having a hybrid VS/TnL system, with very little programmability ( less than DX8 in some factors! ) - the CPU, in complex programs, basically do everything. And load-balancing is used to be sure the NV34 VS isn't the bottleneck.
-> Advertised as 50M Vertices/s, CineFX Compliant ( but not DX9 Compliant :P We love you, CineFX! )
Does not support all Intellisample technologies ( Color Compression is not supported )
Is CineFX compliant, but uses a LOT of software hacks to get to that level on the VS POV.
1000 3DMark 2003, runs all the tests
Some NV30 bugs fixed, but many remain


Note that the 3DMark 2003 numbers come from 3DMark-optimized drivers.


Uttar

[Dazz]

People are saying the Ti5600Ultra is 350/700MHz with 4x1 pixel pipelines.

[Dazz]

Originally posted by GlowStick
While you may beable to get more chips per sheet, their yeild may be lower. That ceo guy mentiond that Nvidia is TMSC's biggist buyer of .13 chips, so ATI may not beable to get as many chips as the demand, that would mean higher prices.

On the cooling issues value cards were never noisey and i dont think any compnay will ever have a problem with cooling them.

And i dont know what your implying about the GfFX being a Kinda card. The R350 and NV30 are more considerd DX9.0+ cards. But you should also bare in mind that the cards an't as complex as the Geforce FX as such yeilds should be very high as they are almost half as complex as it.

[digitalwanderer]

MY LAST MINUTE SPECULATION: They'll suck, but probably a little less than the ATI's bottom-end offering of the 9200. (I really HATE the 9200. :rolleyes: )

[sebazve]

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
MY LAST MINUTE SPECULATION: They'll suck, but probably a little less than the ATI's bottom-end offering of the 9200. (I really HATE the 9200. :rolleyes: )

:lol2:

[Dazz]

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
MY LAST MINUTE SPECULATION: They'll suck, but probably a little less than the ATI's bottom-end offering of the 9200. (I really HATE the 9200. :rolleyes: ) It's better then the Geforce4 MX460 :D

[GlowStick]

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
MY LAST MINUTE SPECULATION: They'll suck, but probably a little less than the ATI's bottom-end offering of the 9200. (I really HATE the 9200. :rolleyes: )

Everycard beats the 9200, i dont see how it could happen!:afro2: :afro2:

[egdusp]

Originally posted by Uttar

NV34 ( probably non-Ultra, but no promise ) :
0.15 Micron, Al on 8-Inch waffers
250/200Mhz
4x1
4 Pixel Shading Units
+- 25% of the NV30 per-clock VS efficiency in basic VS programs. But a lot less in complex programs. This is due to having a hybrid VS/TnL system, with very little programmability ( less than DX8 in some factors! ) - the CPU, in complex programs, basically do everything. And load-balancing is used to be sure the NV34 VS isn't the bottleneck.
-> Advertised as 50M Vertices/s, CineFX Compliant ( but not DX9 Compliant :P We love you, CineFX! )
Does not support all Intellisample technologies ( Color Compression is not supported )
Is CineFX compliant, but uses a LOT of software hacks to get to that level on the VS POV.
1000 3DMark 2003, runs all the tests
Some NV30 bugs fixed, but many remain

Uttar [/B]

Do I understand u right, that the NV34 VS is not DX9 compilant?
That would seem stupid, because the VS can be completley emulated via the CPU.
I don't think, that NV would allow their bargain-chip to miss the DX9 tag.

egdusp

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by egdusp
Do I understand u right, that the NV34 VS is not DX9 compilant?
That would seem stupid, because the VS can be completley emulated via the CPU.
I don't think, that NV would allow their bargain-chip to miss the DX9 tag.

egdusp

From my understanding that the big new point of contention in awarding nVidia me official "cheesey-balls" award for this year: Are the nVidia budget offerings truly DX9 compliant or not.

You have the whole argument right, they're calling them DX9 since they can emulate it in software...but a lot of people don't really consider that DX9 compliant.

It's a debatable issue, let's squabble! :)

(BTW-nVidia IS billing it as DX9, thus the slogan "DX9 for $79!"....I am NOT joking. :( )