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View Full Version : Any point in getting a 8800 gtx for a 5000+?


Ywap
12-05-06, 07:08 AM
Article here: http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/geforce_8800_gtx_gts_amd_cpu_scaling/

Pretty depressing numbers compared to the intel cpu:s. Iīve been thinking about getting a 8800 gtx for my system below, but maybe itīs not even worth it? It feels like buying a ferrari engine for a Ford Scorpio. Of course you can turn your graphical settings up but when the cpu performance isnīt there i donīt know...

Take Dark Messiah demo for an example. I donīt even have a smooth ride at 800 x 600 with most settings turned down. I mean, with settings that low it must be my cpu lacking.

Anyone with a cpu equivalent to mine that has a 8800 gtx? Happy with the setup?

Is Dark Messiah playable on it?

Thanks :)

Shocky
12-05-06, 07:21 AM
With most games mostly being shader limited I don't see why it would be a waste. :)

Lfctony
12-05-06, 07:40 AM
I recently reviewed a 8800GTX on a 5000+, and compared it to a X1900XT. See for yourself... :)

http://www.cygaming.net/index.php?module=prodreviews&func=showcontent&id=110

grey_1
12-05-06, 08:02 AM
Nice review Lfctony. Answered my questions about my proc!

Dazz
12-05-06, 08:33 AM
Yeah one thing i like about that is that you included the minium frame rate which is more improtent to me then average or max :)

Cyant
12-05-06, 08:59 AM
Take Dark Messiah demo for an example. I donīt even have a smooth ride at 800 x 600 with most settings turned down. I mean, with settings that low it must be my cpu lacking.

Anyone with a cpu equivalent to mine that has a 8800 gtx? Happy with the setup?

Is Dark Messiah playable on it?

Thanks :)

I never tried the demo but the full version of the game was more than playable on my Opteron 165 not overclocked (Equiv of a 3800+ or so) and a 7800GT on 1280x1024 med/high settings with no antialiasing so something is wrong with your setup or that demo was messed up.

Of course now 1600x1200 8xSSAA 16AF with the control panel on max quality with no optimisations Everything maxed in game it run even better than the other settings on the old card with my 8800GTX...

NaitoSan
12-05-06, 11:57 AM
I've recently overclocked my 4800+ to 2.64ghz off air and did Prime95 for over half day with no problem. I'm seeing small nice boost in performance from 8800GTX. I'm really happy with the result, most games ran amazing fast.

I'm happy. :)

LBJM
12-05-06, 01:29 PM
even with an oced conroe the 8800GTX is cpu limited. I got the card for my 4400+ and it still kicks the crap and then some out of my SLIed 7800GTXs.

J-Mag
12-05-06, 02:13 PM
even with an oced conroe the 8800GTX is cpu limited.

Why does everyone generalize like this?

IT DEPENDS ON THE GAME AND SETTINGS!!!

Most source based games are CPU limited with the GTX no matter the resolution. However, you will see that there are many other games where this is not the case. Usually at 1920 4xAA and above most modern games are GPU dependent.

The firing squad review narrows it down nicely if you happened to check out the link from the OP.

xorpos
12-05-06, 03:45 PM
I had 2 7800GT in SLI before i went with the 8800GTX. I will never go back, to my old SLI setup. Actually i dont think i will ever go SLI again. The 8800 GTX is that fast :-)

MaXThReAT
12-05-06, 05:19 PM
Uhhhh did anyone look at his specs. Athlon 64 X2 5000+ - 2 gb DDR2 - Geforce 7900 GTX - SB X-Fi Xtreme Music

Dude somthing is already really wrong if you can't play DMOMM @ 800x600. With my x2 3800 OC to 2.6 and my old 7900gt, I could play DMOMM at a min of 1280x960 w/vsync, 2aa 16af and it was like 30fps most of the time. With a GTX and a x2 5000+ and 2gb you should be able to pull max settings @ 1600x1200 with at least some kind of AA and 16af. Somethings wrong.

sillyeagle
12-05-06, 05:32 PM
I have a GTX on my OC 3700+ and wish I had more GPU power at times.

My CPU is fine in eveything but FSX. I do find I am CPU bound in Oblivion down to 30fps or so, but thatd fine with me. Other than FSX and Oblivion I don't notice that I'm CPU bound at all becuase at 1600x1200 16xAA I'm above 60fps in nearly every game.

Being CPU bound doesn't mean sh!t unless unless you are being bound at unacceptable framerates, and I can say with my 3700 I am not.

MaXThReAT
12-05-06, 05:50 PM
I have a GTX on my OC 3700+ and wish I had more GPU power at times.

My CPU is fine in eveything but FSX. I do find I am CPU bound in Oblivion down to 30fps or so, but thatd fine with me. Other than FSX and Oblivion I don't notice that I'm CPU bound at all becuase at 1600x1200 16xAA I'm above 60fps in nearly every game.

Being CPU bound doesn't mean sh!t unless unless you are being bound at unacceptable framerates, and I can say with my 3700 I am not.

And same for my x2 3800+ it's not limiting me enough to warrant an upgrade. Something is really wrong with your system I think... but to answer the question if you do have a X2 5000+, a 8800GTX would still be a huge performance increase.

jcrox
12-05-06, 06:31 PM
An 8800GTX on a 5000+ system should absolutely rock for game play, you wont see the benchmark scores you get with a C2D but actual game play should be jusst fine.

lukrad
12-05-06, 07:02 PM
I have 8800GTX with AMD FX55@2800Mhz. The system rocks. I play everything maxed 1600*1200 AF16x AA4x. I'm planning to get another 8800GTX, and 24" LCD

LBJM
12-06-06, 12:04 AM
Why does everyone generalize like this?

IT DEPENDS ON THE GAME AND SETTINGS!!!



There's more than the FS athlon review! it just about every review you'll see that most games are limited by the cpu with the 8800GTX unless you play at 2560x1600. even playing oblivion myself ( with my x2 4400) at this res (2560x1600) my frame rate is the same at 1920x1200. I haven't tested COD2 at 2560x1600 yet but I will. I'm talking no AA or AF (which are gpu limited settings anyways). run any games without AA or AF and your cpu no matter what will hold you back. I don't think the 8800GTX will hit a wall until 4GHz (non oced) conroe based quad or dual core chips are out. As for the source engine based stuff lets see how the games run when they finally back port their games to the multi core engine. it doesn't change the fact that the cpus from both camps are starving the 8800GTX. running AA and or AF is what slows down the card and makes some games look gpu dependant.

Ywap
12-06-06, 04:04 AM
I installed Fraps and played the demo level again. I tested the framerate with max settings, 1024 x 768, no AA and 4xAF. The framerate went down to the low 30:s quite often. I turned off HDR, shadows and reflections and the framerate was still the same, so iīm pretty sure itīs my cpu holding me back. If i only get better benchmark numbers and higher max framerates i see no point. The minimum fps during gaming is still the same.

I think i need to go conroe before thinking of a 8800 gtx.

sillyeagle
12-06-06, 05:27 AM
I think i need to go conroe before thinking of a 8800 gtx.

Keep in mind your CPU is already a very fast one. For example compared to a stock e6600 system testing in Quake 4, FEAR, and COD2, the Core2 Duo system is only an average of 14% faster than yours.

So if you are getting a minimum 30fps in Dark Messiah, based on the average performance gain on those three games, the Core 2 Duo system will run Dark Messiah at 34fps. Thats something to think about before you go spending your money on a relativly small performance gain.

Ywap
12-06-06, 05:42 AM
Keep in mind your CPU is already a very fast one. For example compared to a stock e6600 system testing in Quake 4, FEAR, and COD2, the Core2 Duo system is only an average of 14% faster than yours.

So if you are getting a minimum 30fps in Dark Messiah, based on the average performance gain on those three games, the Core 2 Duo system will run Dark Messiah at 34fps. Thats something to think about before you go spending your money on a relativly small performance gain.

Yeah, thatīs true but 3 ghz doesnīt seem hard to reach with the e6600 chip. Anyway, i think iīm better off buying nothing at the moment and wait for the arrival of the majestic Crysis before i upgrade.

Maybe you can get Intels quad-cores at a reasonable price by then :)

Are there ANY interesting cpus from AMD on the horizon that will fit that little AM2 socket?

xorpos
12-06-06, 06:00 AM
Well i think i have read someting about a socket refresh named AM2+. The core will be able to work at a different speed than the memorycontroller. With the Mem controller fixed the core schould be able to run alot faster. Guess the onboard memorycontroller is limiting the AMD CPU in terms of GHz.

You schould be able to put one of those AM2+ cpu's in your AM2 board but you will loose the advantage of running the memcontroller async. Equals no big OC.

Based on rumors though ...

sillyeagle
12-06-06, 07:18 PM
Yeah, thatīs true but 3 ghz doesnīt seem hard to reach with the e6600 chip. Anyway, i think iīm better off buying nothing at the moment and wait for the arrival of the majestic Crysis before i upgrade.

Maybe you can get Intels quad-cores at a reasonable price by then :)

Are there ANY interesting cpus from AMD on the horizon that will fit that little AM2 socket?

Just remember Dark Messaih is very CPU intensive, as are all Source Engine games, though Dark Messiah is the most CPU intensive of them all. So personally I wouldn't worry too much about a 30fps minimum in that game. I see 30fps at times on my system, but that does not bother me as the superb image quality of the G80 is well worth it.

Even comparing your CPU to a 2.933Ghz Conroe the Conroe still only has a 20% performance lead averaging those same three games. Which based on the average translates into a 36fps minimum compared to 30fps on yours in Dark Messiah. So even overclocked to almost 3GHz its still not a huge difference, considering you will be spending a Good $900 to get that.

If I were you I would spend the money on the 8800 GTX now, then the CPU later on in the year. That way your purchases are staggered and you can still enjoy all the benifits of G80 right away.

DRen72
12-06-06, 07:32 PM
I played through Dark Messiah on my rig with the 8800GTX. My X2-4800 processor is O/C'ed to 2.6GHz and with everything maxed out at 1900x1200 I never dipped to framerates under 30. It seems to stay very consistent. At 30 fps it was smooth enough.

J-Mag
12-06-06, 07:37 PM
run any games without AA or AF and your cpu no matter what will hold you back.

Anyone buying an 8800gtx and not using AA and AF is a moron.

Anyway, you are correct that many games will be CPU limited without it. However, I pose this question: Is a CPU upgrade worth it if you go from 120fps to 150fps? I don't think so...

A counter to the above argument usually is: "minimum fps is the important factor and that is CPU determined." This argument is also B.S. because minimum dips are almost always GPU related (at least I know this is the case with first person shooters).

If anything the G80 GPUs put LESS strain on the CPU, because there is more work offloaded to the GPU compared to the 7 and 6 series.

Only a few games require anything more than 2.2-2.4ghz with A64 or 1.8-2.0 with C2D. Prove me wrong.

Anyway, believe what you will. Marketing vs You = Marketing FTW!

There's more than the FS athlon review!

Where? Show me another G80 CPU scaling article. It seems as if they are rare, scaling articles that is. Probably because they show that you don't need to upgrade CPUs for gaming frame rates...

sillyeagle
12-06-06, 08:14 PM
Anyway, you are correct that many games will be CPU limited without it. However, I pose this question: Is a CPU upgrade worth it if you go from 120fps to 150fps? I don't think so...

they show that you don't need to upgrade CPUs for gaming frame rates...

My thoughts exactly. With the CPU in question here (X2 5000), you get an average of about 150fps in both CoD2 and Quake 4 according to Toms CPU Chart.

Of course there are a couple exceptions on the market right now, but any fast CPU will be able to average over 60fps in nearly any game. Sure in a few palces you might dip to a minimum in the 30's, but I don't think a 60fps minimum is really needed.

grimreefer
12-06-06, 08:32 PM
if i had exactly $1500 to spend on my pc, i would forget about the cpu and stuff and get 8800gtx sli and evga 680 board lol.