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ragejg
03-04-03, 07:25 AM
Hey, this thread’s for a friend of mine who’s scoping out video cards…

He’s a MOHAA and CS’head, and currently enjoys what he has (I think this is right):

Shuttle AK32? w/256mb SDRAM
XP2000+ @ stock speed
GF2MX400 64mb w/TwinView

He has love for the games, and does not refer much to tech specs (as far as I know)…

He’s ALMOST ready to buy a GF4MX440 128mb on tigerdirect.com… Now I could go on and on to him about the uselessness of a DX7 card with today’s games, the fact that the extra 64mb of video RAM won’t help at all, and many other points… But he’s gonna check this thread out…

Now, I happen to have a Gainward GF3ti200 64mb w/tvout sittin around… I was gonna use it for a friend who has a GF2ti, but it seems that Brian’s system needs it more…

I told him I’d take the GF2MX (I happen to need one for a system I’m building) and $20 or so for the GF3… That card would be right at home in his system, no?

So here’s what I need from y’all (in n00bspeek):

1. Why should he ditch the MX?
2. What card would he benefit from?
3. Will he see performance increases in his current games?
4. How much more future proof will he be with new vidcard?
5. Will Tv-out still have good output?
6. Why a DX8 card and not a DX7?
7. 64mb ok for dx8/agp4x system?
8. AA/AF?

Like I said, he’ll be reading this thread. I want him to make a smart video card decision, and not get screwed by tigerdirect on a barely improved card…

I’ll throw some comments in time to time, but I need everyone else’s opinion. That’s right, EVERYONE!! :D lol

Thanks,

DSC
03-04-03, 07:48 AM
To ragejg's friend,

Please for the love of all things good don't buy the GF4 MX. It's really an abomination that should have never been released by Nvidia. GF2 MX class card, with GF2 GTS class performance. YUCK.

Either get a GF3 Ti200, GF4 Ti4200 or wait for NV31 or NV34.

If you want something from ATI, either a R8500/9000/9100 or wait for 9200 or 9600.

Yeah, all of these are budget DX8 cards, with exception of NV31, NV34 and R9600(RV350) which are budget DX9 class card. They are TONS better than the GF4 MX. :D

Sazar
03-04-03, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by DSC
To ragejg's friend,

Please for the love of all things good don't buy the GF4 MX. It's really an abomination that should have never been released by Nvidia. GF2 MX class card, with GF2 GTS class performance. YUCK.

Either get a GF3 Ti200, GF4 Ti4200 or wait for NV31 or NV34.

If you want something from ATI, either a R8500/9000/9100 or wait for 9200 or 9600.

Yeah, all of these are budget DX8 cards, with exception of NV31, NV34 and R9600(RV350) which are budget DX9 class card. They are TONS better than the GF4 MX. :D

isn't the gf4 mx basically a dx7 card?

Gator
03-04-03, 08:45 AM
Originally posted by Sazar
isn't the gf4 mx basically a dx7 card?

I thought it was DX8, but it might be DX7. The thing with GF4MX is it is a GF2 card but at GF4TI core speeds. It's the fastest GF2 you could ever buy, but it's a piece of junk nonetheless compared to whats available today.

My suggestion, if your friend is looking at a GF4MX that tells me he is looking for a low priced card. GF4TI4200 will blow the GF4MX out of the water, and they start around $110us. Another possibility is the ATI Radeon 9500, an excellent card with DX9 capabilities starting around $135us. Either way, it's hella better than a GF4MX :eek:

check out http://www.pricewatch.com

Sazar
03-04-03, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by Gator
I thought it was DX8, but it might be DX7. The thing with GF4MX is it is a GF2 card but at GF4TI core speeds. It's the fastest GF2 you could ever buy, but it's a piece of junk nonetheless compared to whats available today.

My suggestion, if your friend is looking at a GF4MX that tells me he is looking for a low priced card. GF4TI4200 will blow the GF4MX out of the water, and they start around $110us. Another possibility is the ATI Radeon 9500, an excellent card with DX9 capabilities starting around $135us. Either way, it's hella better than a GF4MX :eek:

check out http://www.pricewatch.com

I would go with the gf4ti 4200 also for a low price point...

gf2 core architecture is dx7 AFAIK this translates to a gf4mx also being dx7... whether it does certain things in software... I dunno...

volt
03-04-03, 08:54 AM
Tell him to get a Ti4200 for ~80 bucks or venture eBay to get a similar price :)

saturnotaku
03-04-03, 09:03 AM
All right...lock and load:

Originally posted by ragejg
So here’s what I need from y’all (in n00bspeek):

1. Why should he ditch the MX?
2. What card would he benefit from?
3. Will he see performance increases in his current games?
4. How much more future proof will he be with new vidcard?
5. Will Tv-out still have good output?
6. Why a DX8 card and not a DX7?
7. 64mb ok for dx8/agp4x system?
8. AA/AF?


1. Because it's based on three-year-old technology, while very good for the time, doesn't cut the mustard for games today and in the future.

2. He would benefit from the best high-end card he can afford. There was no budget figure given, but if he's looking in the $150-200 range, he could easily pick up a GF4 Ti4200 or Radeon 9500. If the budget is less than that, there are still Ti4200 cards to be had for under $150 and for less than $100, you can pick up a GeForce3 Ti200.

3. If he upgrades from a GF2 MX to a GF4 Ti or Radeon 9xxx series card, he will most definitely see a performance increase in what he plays now.

4. If he gets the GF4 MX, not very. A GF4 Ti or Radeon 9xxx will be a much better choice if he doesn't plan on upgrading for some time.

5. If TV-out is a big factor, he may want to go ATI. ATI's TV-out is quite good. Solid quality and (supposedly) very easy to set up.

6. One word: Morrowind. That is the direction games are headed and if you don't want to be left in the dust, you would be wise not to spend money on a GF4 MX.

7. 64 mb is fine for games now, but if he's thinking ahead, he may want to get 128. 128 mb Ti4200 cards aren't that much more expensive than their 64 mb counterparts.

8. If he wants to use AA/AF, he may want to go with ATI. The quality is very good and the performance hit is much less when compared with NVIDIA.

ragejg
03-04-03, 09:04 AM
Personally, I'd prefer to hook him up with a private deal on the cards available in my area... on on FS/FT forums...

Like I said, $20 + the GF2mx would get him a GF3...

Or I could take the card and $30-$40 and get him a nice 8500...

Or $50-$70 plus the MX for a used ti4200...

I have had GREAT luck buying vidcards on forums... As long as you do a background check (heatware etc.), you can pretty much be sure of your purchase...

Yeh, for the money he's lookin to spend, he could prolly get a used ti4400 even...

Let's talk about visual quality and the diff. btw. DX7 and DX8 visuals in todays games as well. Right now I fear that he may be only looking at Video RAM size... and my explanations of pixel/vertex shaders kinda missed the mark... I wish someone could post a screenie of UT2k3 on a GF4MX, and then a shot on an 8500 or something, with 2xAA/4xAF turned on...

digitalwanderer
03-04-03, 09:47 AM
I have both a 64MB GF2 MX400 (w/twinview :p ) and a 64MB GF3 and it is a HUGE jump in performance! He is offering you a hell of a deal on the "swap & $20" for the card, and it'll make a world of difference in the games you like. (It eats up the Q3 engine games. :) )

The GF4 MX series is the biggest scam in current graphics card history...seriously. It really is about a GF2-1/2 and won't give you nearly the performance of the GF3 your friend is offering you. You're going to be so disappointed and let down if you get it when you get it installed that it isn't even funny...I doubt you'll see a whole lot of improvement over you GF2, honest.

I would highly recomend taking your friends GF3 in trade as it'll serve you well for a long time...I'm STILL gaming on me GF3 as my best gaming card! (Although it's probably gonna get upgraded soon.)

The GF4 MX is a sucker's bet, don't be a sucker. Listen to your friend, he's trying to help ya.

1stFlight
03-04-03, 09:52 AM
How about because it's the equaivalent of buying a turbocharged Yugo?

If he's looking to save a few dollars GF4 4200's are far superior and about the same price bracket these days.

digitalwanderer
03-04-03, 09:53 AM
BTW-Get the GF3 over the 8500, take it from someone who's got both. ;)

Gator
03-04-03, 02:09 PM
check out this thread, apparently GF4-TI4200 is only $80us now! The choice is clear ;)
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8186

ChrisW
03-04-03, 04:30 PM
I usually would say to let the guy buy whatever he wants but in this case... buy anything you want except a GeForce 4 MX!!!!! All the other deals posted here are much better alternatives. A GF3 + $20 is a great deal if you are on a budget and is much better than wasting your money on a GF4mx. If you purchase the GF4mx, you will in fact be encouraging this kind of unethical behavior of repackaging an old product and selling it as new.

Let's just hope the new GeForce FX MX is not based on the GeForce 2!

kyleb
03-04-03, 08:03 PM
a geforce4 mx440 64mb and 20$ for a geforce3 is a great deal.

a gefroce4 mx440 64mb and any more than 10$ extra for a gefroce4 mx440 128mb is a compleate rip-off.


i am just calling it how i see it. ;)

ragejg
03-05-03, 06:33 AM
Originally posted by kyleb
a geforce4 mx440 64mb and 20$ for a geforce3 is a great deal.


no kyleb, a GF2MX + $20...

even better deah, huh?

It's a gainward with ramsinks and a socket7 cooler mounted on it... and it's quiet... I tested it 2 nights ago and it has no probs @ 225/460... prolly can go higher... I'm gonna miss this last of the group o 4 gf3's I've bought... I'll prolly think the same thing about ti4200's around mid-summer., when they start dropping...

GF3 #1 (Impression Brand, stock cooling), $93, bought 4/02 sat in my kt266a board for like 4 months... It then journeyed to a Slot A Athlon, where it choked and gasped and sat for 6 months... It almost got thrown into a mom'n'pop pc, but I contacted the new owner and offered $10 plus an XFX GF4MX440SE... So I got it back! Only to put it in a pc I built from April to July and sold to another friend... It's a Gigabyte 7ZMMH (km133) with my old T-Bird 1.33... now it's in a happy home.

GF3 #2, bought Nov. 02, $50!! Gainward with stock cooling and ramsinks. Went into my friend Pappacass's Duron/Kt133A... A week ago he got a second ECS mobo, and now it sits happily with an XP1600 and DDR RAM. BF1942 runs real good on these cardz...

GF3 #3, bought in December 02, was a Gainward Golden Sample 128mb... nice friggin card $80. Nice deal. I got to hold onto it for a little while (I wanted it till I got an 8500 AIW DV with everything for $125.

GF3 #4, bought at the beginning of this year, is the Gainward with the socket 7 cooler... $70. Another nice deal... Like I said, it clocks good, and hopefully will sit with an XP2000 and some DDR... If Brian doesn't take this card, it may go to a KT133A, replacing another friend's GF2ti... But he only plays Civ.3 and the Sims, so he don't need no pixel shaders yet, and I want Brian to take this thing (as well as AT LEAST a nicer non blurry 15" monitor... Right now he gets free AA @ 8x6 with a 14" lifted from a 1997 college computer... CS would look pretty nice @ 10x7, 2xAA/2XAF, no? Esp. on a 15" that does 10x7 with full sharpness and no distortion...

kyleb
03-05-03, 09:26 AM
lol ya woops, more like super nice deal. here i payed nearly 350$ for visiontek geforce3 when it was new. last week i to a freind for 50$. :)

Darth Rancid
03-05-03, 10:04 AM
I suppose all has been said allready, but I feel it is within my duty as a computernerd to do all I can, (short of physical violence), to stop anybody from buying a GF4MX. :)

Simply put, the GF4MX is a GF2GTS. As such, its simply not at all as good as the GF3Ti200.
A GF4Ti4200 or a Radeon 9500Pro would be even better.

Dazz
03-05-03, 10:04 AM
Can you even buy a MX with 128MB of ram? Not much point really.

ragejg
03-05-03, 11:13 AM
dude, you could buy GF2MX 128mb even... even MORE wasteful!! And yes, I believe the 4MX in 128mb trim to be a complete POS.

..they make OK pci SFF (shuttle sock.370) vidcards. There's their niche, that's about it.

here's the abomination of abominations (right on par with the SiS305/315 128mb)

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?s=&postid=76073

kyleb
03-05-03, 11:45 AM
rofl! i can't see how they can even justfy the creating a retail box for such a peice of junk. given the choice i would say it would be a fair tossup between buying that an a brown paper bag full of peanuts. :D

ragejg
03-10-03, 06:42 AM
I went over to Brian's last nite with the GF3, and boy is he impressed and glad he got the right card...

Yeah, the GF3 (Gainward with Sock.7 cooler/fan) is MUCH more at home on Brian's Shuttle AK32... He wanted a framerate jump in MOHAA, and he got it... His new monitor's coming soon, so he hcan actually see the diff. even more than with a 15"...

He is a happy camper, and thanked me for posting this thread.

I'd like to thank you all for your input...

:)

Darth Rancid
03-10-03, 07:17 AM
Victory is ours!

Kev1
03-10-03, 10:51 AM
With a little more overclocking on my CPU, I'll be clearing 10,000 3D Marks in 3D Mark 2001SE! Your friend will be happy he made the right decision :dance:

I'll be getting DX9 card later this year (Not sure which one), but till then the Gainward GF3 Ti200 will play all my non DX9 games fine. Heck, the new "BlackHawk Down" game looks fantastic with it :thumbsup: