War!

[LiquidX]

Why are Americans protesting it?


Yes war brings death, destruction and terror but it can also cease the future death, destruction and of terror of man. And in that sence it can be a good thing.

Never have I seen such a out cry against something in America. I mean this country killed off the original owners and put them in a for away corner then went to Africa brought over blacks then treated them ...well...like slaves, then they freed them, then till this day most of them are hated all the way down a little tots to the man who would envent bi-pass heart surgery to the one who would invent the traffic lights. Yes, there where protest agaist some of America past wrongs but why all this drama from from Hollywod to to the back-woods of Alabama for no war against man who has killed a whole village because of thier race?

Trust the all-seeing-eye!

A couple years back a Russian plane went down....I forget the country where but this country said it was looked like a weather related accident or something like that. America said(not exactly) oh no sir..that plane was shot down by a missile at this time from right here where my finger is by them. That country after a couple of days said it was in fact a missile test gone wrong and apolgized to Russia and it people. Knowledge like that should make you belive in your goverment. Protest from other countries I can understand but those living within it is a shame.

I am a German-American......but I have lived here most of my life. I have to say I trust the goverment when they something is up in Iraq which they have to root out now to prevent somthing from causeing more them a couple building going back to which they came next time around in NY.

A long rant but hey.....I read it.:)

[netviper13]

The country was Ukraine.

And it wasn't Americans (English colonists at the time) who brought Black slaves to America, you can thank the Dutch for that.

I think you misunderstand what the protests are all about. Everybody agrees the situation in Iraq needs changed, but they disagree on the best means to bring about this change. What the anti-war movement is all about is looking at alternatives to human carnage first.

[UDawg]

Ya lets bomb the dyke builders now. w00t w00t.

Every civalization has had slavery in one form or another through out the history of the world. It is note worthy what the abolition of slavery was started by English....ummm...hrmmmm OMG NO!!! CHRISTIANS and was advanced in the states where it is no longer practiced. Ya that's right you did not see the left on this side of the issue, ohhhh no they were too busy trying to import their party base for the next 200 years. *ohhhh that was a low blow towards Democrats. ;)

I could go off on the whole slavery issue but you would :barf:



:D

[LORD-eX-Bu]

how come it always seems that us immigrants really love our country?:D

[t6_shadow]

"Yes war brings death, destruction and terror but it can also cease the future death, destruction and of terror of man. And in that sence it can be a good thing."

Truer words have never been spoken.

"I think you misunderstand what the protests are all about. Everybody agrees the situation in Iraq needs changed, but they disagree on the best means to bring about this change. What the anti-war movement is all about is looking at alternatives to human carnage first."

As it has been stated many times before in the very forums. We have been trying other alternatives for 12 years. This has made no change. We are out of options.

"how come it always seems that us immigrants really love our country?"

Seriously I believe this is because immigrants either come from a place worse than America or heard story after story of it from mom/dad grandma/grandpa. They know how good they have it and wouldn't want to give it up. A lot of people born over heard have no ****ing clue how harsh the world can be.

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Yeppers, I don't want to go back to Honduras, well, maybe, but only to inflict brutal vengeance on a certain few:firedevil Nobody gets out alive;)

[Hooligan]

I for one support the president 100 percent. He has done excellent in post 9/11...

[UDawg]

Originally posted by [eNv]-LORD-eX-Bu
how come it always seems that us immigrants really love our country?:D

Because we are spoiled and have never had to really suffer. That is why I am stand so firm against anti-America bashers. I DO NOT WANT MY SON TO EVER!!! SUFFER IF I CAN HELP IT. The pukes who spit on the memory of our founding fathers really sadden me. We have it so good in this country yet some people can never be happy. I completely love my country and if I did not have a son whom I am the sole provider for. I would have enlisted even at 33 years old. This war on terror must be one where ever it takes us. I also promise you if we go to war with N. Korea I will enlist, even at the cost of leaving my son. Because if we don't win that war, there wont be anything for my son to grow up to.

Now is the time for payback for Beirut, The Cole, African Embassy bombing, First Trade Center bombing and now the 3000 who were torn from us too soon. The rest of the world doesn't have to like it but I am sick and tired of being the target of hate from everyone and them expecting us not to react.

[Mod]

Originally posted by LiquidX
Yes war brings death, destruction and terror but it can also cease the future death, destruction and of terror of man.
I agree, wars are good because they bring lots of material progress, thus enhancing the future life quality, thus save many people that would be otherwise doomed to death.

[DaveW]

Originally posted by LiquidX
Why are Americans protesting it?


They are democrats and don't count as real americans ;)

[sytaylor]

Those who say that only bad can come from war are very short sighted indeed. The world has a lot of problems and conflicts, its sad but true, but war has solved many of them, anyone who argues this point needs a history book.

There is a line, and suffering is inevitable, but when a nation brings that on its own people a little bit more to end it forever.. Is that so much of a crime? Admitedley its not ideal, but reality isn't ideal. We gotta accept that war can be affective, and does solve problems.

The way in which wars are carried out is a totally different matter..

[jnd3]

I saw a photo of a counter-protester at one of the anti-war protests who was carrying a sign that read, "War never solved anything except fascism, nazism, and slavery." Heh.

And ya gotta admit, the if you've got to fight against anyone, it might as well be the U.S. At least we'll rebuild your country for you after we're done destroying it (instead of continuing the oppression under a different guise)! :D

Cheers,
JND

[DaveW]

I can't wait to see a MacDonalds open in the middle of Bagdad :)

[Mod]

Originally posted by jnd3
"War never solved anything except fascism, nazism, and slavery." Heh.


This guy also forgot that fascism, nazism and slavery were also direct product of wars.

[UDawg]

Ya that was a picture I posted. The guy was pro America and supported President Bush and the war against Saddam. He too a lot of heat for going there with his sign, in fact those peace loving hippies were very hostile to him. He was also I believe Jewish. His friend or was it him that had a israeli flag on his t-shirt.

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by sytaylor
There is a line, and suffering is inevitable, but when a nation brings that on its own people a little bit more to end it forever.. Is that so much of a crime?

unfortunately you can probably never end war. and even if you did, could you stop smaller scale protests and/or acts of terrorism?

the world is simply too big to police effectively. likewise, as long as there are many countries with sovereignty, it is neigh impossible for you to conclude that there will never be a belligerent nation.

[sytaylor]

Originally posted by StealthHawk
unfortunately you can probably never end war. and even if you did, could you stop smaller scale protests and/or acts of terrorism?

the world is simply too big to police effectively. likewise, as long as there are many countries with sovereignty, it is neigh impossible for you to conclude that there will never be a belligerent nation.

True there will alweys be skirmishes, but is that not better than having the full blown conflicts of today?

[sonaboy]

Originally posted by Mod
This guy also forgot that fascism, nazism and slavery were also direct product of wars.


Actually, that's not 100% true - Fascism comes out of depressed economic conditions. War can sometimes be the cause of this, but not always.
Slavery only had something to do with war as a capitalistic pursuit, but the traders within the slave rings hold many of the same beliefs as facists do, particularly in the area of "race". They have to believe in the existence of racial and cultural superiority to earn a living.
The slave trade didn't come out of war between european society, but of African society. The POW's of rival factions and tribes were sold to the Dutch as goods, and tribes had no idea where they're ex-prisoners were headed or why they fetched such a handsome price. It's sort of a coupling of fascist politics and rampant capitalism.
On the other hand,
Fascism/Nazism arose out of a post-war climate in Europe after a few decades of economic sanctions forced onto Germany and their trade axis.

Naturally, when living conditions deteriorate, along with infrastructure and the education systems, people begin paying attention to isolationist/nationalist/facist reasoning to find a an enemy to put most of this blame on. The quick solution of post WWI Germany was to blame certain ethnic groups believed to cause the deterioration of "national pride" and German solidarity.
When you couple this new sense of national pride/patriotism along with isolationist views, and carry them out by violent means upon the enemy (such as the Black and Tans were most famous for in pre-WWII europe), the next thing that falls in line is a call for security buildup and arms buildup to secure national interests. This further polarizes the public under siege by facism when, as the facist political influence grows, so does the axiom of "You're either for us...or against us."
This is what got a curious ex-art student named Adolf so much attention from the rest of western europe at the time. He spoke at length about how Germany must take back what is rightfully theirs (all the while espousing the TRUE German "virtues"), and directly oppose forced disarmament and begin building up weapons stockpiles. This essentially set the stage for WWII, and was fully realized when facist bedfellows Hitler and Mussolini aligned themselves under military partnerships for conquest.
But at the same time, Germany's economy was getting a boost from arms production, and manufacturing in general. So people began believing that this new political system was working for them, and their country. They just had no idea that Hitler's true plans were based upon international conquest. But the idea of "You're either for us...or against us" had, by that time, taken on the meaning of "If you don't support our military buildup, you don't support the country and are a problem."
Facism is essentially a silencing of dissent in the interest of conquest of both minds and material goods. This happens at the same time as a de-valueing of personal pursuits and liberties in the interests of national pride and unity.
You're either for us...or against us.

Facism makes a return to popular society in waves that extend mostly about 30-40 years, if history repeats.

[1stFlight]

So in other words Bush is on time then? Figure he's already dug up McCarthyism.

Originally posted by sonaboy
Facism makes a return to popular society in waves that extend mostly about 30-40 years, if history repeats.

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by 1stFlight
So in other words Bush is on time then?

uh... yeah...:rolleyes:

[stncttr908]

We've been trying the political thing for years, and the UN doesn't seem to be coming through at all with this so called "weapons inspecting" they do. What stops these people from moving these arms around, and eluding the inspectors? It's not a tough concept. There will always be places that they can't see 24/7.

Sure this might all be easy to say for me since I'm not in the service. I will be viewing this inevitable war from afar as will most of us. I just believe that its time for a change. If they weren't living in fear I believe that the Iraqi people would say the same thing. This diplomatic standpoint hasn't brought about much change.

[LORD-eX-Bu]

there is a scientist that just recently fled from Hussein's regime and went north into the Kurdish areas where our Special Forces are located. He is claiming that Saddam Hussein still has WMDs and they aren't just hidden in Iraq, but in other countries as well. Now, if this guy is for real, that is the most recent defector we have proving that Saddam has WMDs. What is even more interesting is that he said Saddam has weapons outside the country.

Turkish legislators made a big mistake not letting US soldiers open up a second front through southern Turkey. The turkish military (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,80299,00.html) supported US soldiers going thru turkey and now generals are putting pressure on legislators to allow our troops to pass through. Not only that, but the fact that Turkey will still take a huge econimical hit and they will see many refugees still, but, since they did not accept the US's proposal they will not receive any aid from us. Real smart... looks like they are screwwed anyways:D

[netviper13]

If he has bombs outside the country, though, that really scares me. Because it then removes any security that could possibly be gained from taking him out of power. Who knows, maybe those weapons are in the hands of sleepers around the world. It's easy to bomb a country into oblivion, not so with individuals throughout the world.

[LORD-eX-Bu]

yeah. I hope it ain't true tho, if he already has weapons outside of the country it will be harder for us to track them and stop their use. Maybe he sold them, who knows:confused:

[netviper13]

Man I wish it was possible to call a peace treaty with the world, because with terrorism being the new favorite way to attack the US we're gonna end up having to take over the world to make us even halfway safe.