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DaveW
01-10-07, 12:08 PM
I envy you guys doing assembler. I'd love to get into the more low level stuff. Like those tiny $2 dollar PICs - actually soldering the CPU onto your own circuit board design and then trying to squeeze what you can out of 2K of space.

Kind of like this guy did: http://d116.com/ace/

Clay
01-10-07, 07:27 PM
I don't see the difference between a "programming" language and a "scripting" language, however.I tend to think of "programming" languages as languages that are compiled while "scripting" languages are interpreted. That's not bulletproof though I know.

Aphot
01-10-07, 07:56 PM
I know Pig Latin and some English ;).

rhink
01-10-07, 09:29 PM
I envy you guys doing assembler. I'd love to get into the more low level stuff. Like those tiny $2 dollar PICs - actually soldering the CPU onto your own circuit board design and then trying to squeeze what you can out of 2K of space.

Kind of like this guy did: http://d116.com/ace/

Low level stuff is where the real fun is, imo. I'd like to get into embedded work professionally when I can, stuck doing java programming atm though.

Though even for embedded work, working directly with asm is very rare anymore.

Bman212121
01-11-07, 12:33 AM
I use Ruby and Python mainly for testing other apps and scripting. Check out Watir for Ruby and Pamie for Python, they are great for unit-testing web apps and much much better than nUnit ASP.

Ruby is easy to learn, its quite intuitive except for its use of special characters. E.g.

variable_name
$variable_name
@variable_name
@@variable_name

Still, its not as bad as Perl... Perl programs look like some huge regular expression to me :)

Python is easy to learn too, the main oddity being its lack of implicit self. I still don't understand why the language is designed this way. I read theres some cool hacks you can do because of this, but I never got that deep with t he language.

I really like the fact that Python uses indentation instead of brackets etc. Most programmers freak when they here this, but once you've tried it you will find it makes perfect sense.

Please don't say Perl is horrible... I have to take that class next semester. :thumbdwn:

Well, I've done BASIC, Java, JScript, VB .Net, HTML/CSS, PHP, SQL, and RPG 4 LE. In order to get a bachelors in Computer Information Systems, I've already taken classes that covered all of those. I'm currently in C++, and I have to take Perl. It is quite amazing how many different things that I've learned to do for my degree.

I would also like to learn Uscript (Unreal scripting for UT), that way I can make mods for UT2007 when it finally comes out.

nemecb
01-11-07, 08:38 PM
PERL isn't that bad. Regular expressions are a headache, but they're also incredibly powerful so it's a tradeoff. If you just write basic PERL it's not any worse than any other language IMHO.

rhink
01-12-07, 07:23 PM
I agree... the perl I did back in college wasn't bad at all.

wnd
01-13-07, 06:38 PM
IMO Perl is beautiful (insert well-known saying here). Perl allows programmer to do wonders with very little effort.

Perl is often seen as "read-only language" and this isn't far from truth if beginner tries to decipher code written by Perl-wizard in a hurry. Then again Perl is not the only language that can be difficult to comprehend. Also, like most programming languages (except Lisp), Perl can be very clear and pretty. Also notice that regular expressions and Perl are not the same thing. Perl can use regexps extensively and Perl even has some extensions to regexp, but they're still two very different things. I love them both.

I tend to think of "programming" languages as languages that are compiled while "scripting" languages are interpreted. That's not bulletproof though I know.

I pretty much agree with Clay. Scripted languages are interpreted. Unfortunately it's not that simple. perlcc can compile Perl-scripts into native executables. The way I see it, any scripting language can be compiled into native binary. (Although compiling scripting language that can modity itself can be slightly tricky.)

rhink
01-14-07, 12:40 AM
God, lisp is horrible. Incredibly ugly language.

On scripted languages vs a heavyweight programming language... the one more complexity to throw into the mix is that some of the heavyweight programming languages are interpreted (to some degree) as well (most notably java bytecode- though recent JVM's do use JIT for a portion of the code).

Remi
02-15-07, 10:48 AM
IMHO, there are lots of things that distinguishes "scripting languages" from "programming languages", but it probably fits all in one word: reliability. To make software reliable, we poor humans do need help from tools (believe me, I've tried everything!) and that's where good compilers can do marvels. To help them, we need to use data types, which is why I'm a big fan of type safety by default.
So that's what I would put first in my list of desirable properties for a programming language, which a scripting language can do without:

- sound code analysis tools,
- type safety by default.

Sycario
02-16-07, 09:50 AM
I've mostly done web languages like ASP, PHP, ASP.NET (VB, C#). I had to teach myself how to write applications (vb.net and vb6). Because of the horrible job the last guy did on the program, it requires a complete rewrite. I'm amazed sometimes at the crappy coding I see. There is very little error checking, completely unnesessary use of properties and enums.

evilghost
02-16-07, 09:55 AM
I've mostly done web languages like ASP, PHP, ASP.NET (VB, C#). I had to teach myself how to write applications (vb.net and vb6). Because of the horrible job the last guy did on the program, it requires a complete rewrite. I'm amazed sometimes at the crappy coding I see. There is very little error checking, completely unnesessary use of properties and enums.

It's fairly easy to find someone who doesn't know what they're doing; I used to love the developers who would "SELECT * FROM [tablename]" and load it into a control and enumerate the entire recordset/control looking for the selected choice instead of just including a WHERE clause in the SQL statement.

superklye
02-16-07, 11:53 AM
I've started teaching myself Ruby. It's pretty sweet as is Ruby on Rails.

rhink
02-16-07, 05:31 PM
It's fairly easy to find someone who doesn't know what they're doing; I used to love the developers who would "SELECT * FROM [tablename]" and load it into a control and enumerate the entire recordset/control looking for the selected choice instead of just including a WHERE clause in the SQL statement.

Heh. I'm using an implementation of Java Data Objects (aka JDO) for a project I'm working on. It's supposed to transparently map your data objects into the database, handle persistence for you, you create queries based on your objects, it maps it into SQL, etc. One (among many) of the major issues with it is that people see an object in java, they tend to treat it like one, even if that object is transactional and everything you do with it generates a query that hits the database. So something like:

Transaction txn = new Transaction();
txn.begin();

/* Set up query somewhere in here */
Collection result = query.execute();
Iterator iterator = result.iterator();
while(iterator.hasNext()) {
//iterate it!
}
txn.commit();

seems quite reasonable in java, but of course what's really going on is it's sending a SELECT FOR UPDATE statement for a single row to the database at very high frequency. People love to do it though, just to pick out one or a small handful of records, mostly because JDO's query interface can be somewhat painful for the uninitiated. Even when the resulting iterator could contain literally hundreds of thousands of results. Then people wonder why things are god awful slow, why we get a zillion transactional/record locking type errors from the database, etc. And that's not even getting into the massive amounts of trash this type of approach generates on the heap...

I've spent huge amounts of time cleaning up that kinda **** in performance critical sections, and re-writing portions of our infrastructure to make it less necessary to go to the database (caching more stuff locally, people can just load it out of the cache, etc).

It's not always people that are bad coders doing this kind of thing, either. People just don't necessarily think about what's going on under the covers when you use a product like JDO. For that reason, I don't think that higher levels of abstraction and implementation hiding are necessarily a good thing. Sometimes things should be slightly painful, and map more closely to the implementation, just so the coder is forced to think a little more about what they're doing.

A101Sugar
02-16-07, 10:15 PM
Taking AP Computer Science A as a Junior in High School. Learning Java....

Clay
02-16-07, 10:36 PM
It's fairly easy to find someone who doesn't know what they're doing; I used to love the developers who would "SELECT * FROM [tablename]" and load it into a control and enumerate the entire recordset/control looking for the selected choice instead of just including a WHERE clause in the SQL statement.Dang, that is really nasty. You should post that on thedailywtf.com :D ...although, that kind of ignorant coding has been posted there plenty before.

wnd
02-17-07, 05:36 AM
It's fairly easy to find someone who doesn't know what they're doing.

Reminds me of the following piece of code:

int i;
for (i = 0; i < g_list_length(list); i++) {
struct whatever_data *data;
data = (struct whatever_data *) g_list_nth_data(list, i);
do_the_magic(data);
}

Someone clearly didn't know you can iterate through the list using linked_list->next (or by calling g_list_foreach(), but that would require a callback function). Although the list always had less than 80 elements, he would still use O(n^2) time instead of O(n). I hardly think GLib would have any internal indexing for GList. At least he didn't manually iterate to the n:th element inside the outer loop...

six_storm
02-24-07, 11:21 AM
I've had little experience with VB.net but I'm currently taking classes in:

C++ (my 2nd class)
Java
COBOL (the most pointless language in the world)

Programming is fun and all, but sometimes you just wanna pull out your hair because you can't figure the dang thing out.

wnd
02-24-07, 05:31 PM
but sometimes you just wanna pull out your hair because you can't figure the dang thing out.

Learning something new and sometimes tricky is just part of the fun. Unfortunately that fun occasionally turns into disbelief "I can't believe they designed it this stupid". Usually this applies to commercial library APIs though.

six_storm
02-26-07, 11:40 AM
Learning something new and sometimes tricky is just part of the fun. Unfortunately that fun occasionally turns into disbelief "I can't believe they designed it this stupid". Usually this applies to commercial library APIs though.

True. I have a COBOL program right now that uses the temp SORT file. It will only sort and display 3 records out of many though . . . I can't figure it out!!! Arghh!!!! :D

TierMann
05-07-07, 12:26 PM
Q-Basic
VB
C, C++

PHP
HTML, CSS, XML, JavaScript

CDE_1246
05-08-07, 08:39 PM
Heres what I know -----------------------------------------------------
Nothing, My school sucks, theres no cool classes for any of that stuff.

supra
05-08-07, 08:51 PM
Used Most
VB.net/VB6
C#
xml/xsl
html/css/javascript
PHP/mysql

havent used in a long time
Perl
Java
C/C++
Python
Bash scripting

and know the smallest bit of assembly

wnd
05-09-07, 06:55 AM
Nothing, My school sucks, theres no cool classes for any of that stuff.

Learning by doing-it-yourself FTW!

evilghost
05-09-07, 10:14 AM
Hijacking my own thread; all you C guys, care to lend me a hand?
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=91169