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View Full Version : Defining first gen and second gen games


JayK
12-24-06, 09:32 PM
How do you all define whether a game is a first gen game or a second or third gen game? The reason I ask is Gears of War seams to be considered by many as a second gen game for the 360 and I consider it still a first gen game. My reasoning for this is that it is Epic's first game on the system and still in the first year of the consoles life span so it's not like Epic has had so much longer to learn the console. I would more likely consider a game like COD3 a second gen game since it is the second game in the series on the 360.

What do you all think?

toxikneedle
12-24-06, 09:47 PM
How do you all define whether a game is a first gen game or a second or third gen game? The reason I ask is Gears of War seams to be considered by many as a second gen game for the 360 and I consider it still a first gen game. My reasoning for this is that it is Epic's first game on the system and still in the first year of the consoles life span so it's not like Epic has had so much longer to learn the console. I would more likely consider a game like COD3 a second gen game since it is the second game in the series on the 360.

What do you all think?
Well technically it wouldn't work for COD 3 either, IW (who was the developer on COD2) did not make COD3, nor is the COD3 engine the same as the COD2 engine. I personally dont distinguish between 1st, 2nd, 3rd gen games.... only between launch titles and everything that comes after that.

JayK
12-24-06, 09:54 PM
That's a good thought in reference to COD3. I guess the reason I ask this question is that I see all of the comparisons between Gears of War and Resistance: FOM and lots of people are saying that you can't compare the two since Resistance is a 1st gen(and launch) title and that Gears is a 2nd gen 360 title. I kinda figure that the two games were in development around the same length of time that they should be able to be compared just fine. Maybe I'm wrong.

BTW Happy Holidays.

Banko
12-24-06, 09:55 PM
I would classify a game second gen if it is the second title a developer is creating which made a title previous on that system.

JayK
12-24-06, 09:58 PM
Thanks for the replies, guys. As you probably figured by my first post, I'd have to agree, Banko.

toxikneedle
12-24-06, 10:00 PM
That's a good thought in reference to COD3. I guess the reason I ask this question is that I see all of the comparisons between Gears of War and Resistance: FOM and lots of people are saying that you can't compare the two since Resistance is a 1st gen(and launch) title and that Gears is a 2nd gen 360 title. I kinda figure that the two games were in development around the same length of time that they should be able to be compared just fine. Maybe I'm wrong.

BTW Happy Holidays.
Well it all has to do with final dev kits for each console. Developers cannot start serious optimization until they have final dev kids. The longer they have them, the more time they have to optimize, therefore either getting acceptable FPS or adding more assets after optimization. Gears of war ran at horrible framerates when it was shown at X05 and even E3 06. After optimizing, the game now runs smooth. I'm sure Insomniac had considerably less time optimizing the game, and even though resistance has a good framerate, that may be due to them lowering texture quality, or reducing polygons... which they wouldn't need to do if they had extra development time. Not to mention that they announced the game will run at 720p, pretty close to the release date.... so maybe they had it at 1080p before they recieved the final dev kits.

JayK
12-24-06, 10:12 PM
More good points to consider. I don't mean for this to be a Gears vs Resistance thread, but those are definitely good points regarding the two games. I think both games are good, though I definitely like Gears more so far.

LiquidX
12-24-06, 11:15 PM
To make it simple I would just say go by years or the holidays. First gen games launch with or around the debut of the system. The following holiday I would no longer classify new games coming as first gen even if they look no better than some of the launch games and so on. Another way we can maybe separate first and second gen games is that the latter my benefit from of much better development tools as I would think what they have to work with is constantly updated to make development easier.

But over all I think this talk of first of second gen is really for the big boys like say a Halo or GOW. You just expect a major title to look better that what was on the system a year later so you classify them by generation. When Halo 3 is released it should mark the third generation of games on the 360.

Peoples-Agent
12-25-06, 02:53 AM
I thought generations were defined by the tech side of what is used?
Like the games which are developed for the newer hardware on a new stream of consoles.

six_storm
12-25-06, 10:01 AM
That's easy!

PDZ < GoW

:D

JayK
12-26-06, 03:16 PM
Thanks for all the responses, y' all. Everyone had some good things to say. Much appreciated.

Hope everyone is having a great holiday week.

GamerGuyX
12-26-06, 06:33 PM
Gears of War is a second Gen title.

JayK
12-26-06, 07:08 PM
Why do you say it's a second gen title? Just wondering how you define it as such. I'm not saying you are wrong or right, just wondering why.

|MaguS|
12-26-06, 07:11 PM
I define generations as the life cycle of the console. If the console is on its second year then any title released then are considered 2nd gen... 3rd year are 3rd gen and so on....

JayK
12-26-06, 07:25 PM
Okay, fair enough. Would that reasoning go along with Toxikneedle's comments on more mature developer tools maybe?

|MaguS|
12-26-06, 07:28 PM
Okay, fair enough. Would that reasoning go along with Toxikneedle's comments on more mature developer tools maybe?

Yeah to a degree, Sometimes the tools don't evolve much but the developer themselves get a better grasp of them. I bet later UE3 games will look better then GoW.

Look at the Burnout Series and Black, or even Grand Theft Auto Series... They all use Renderware but they learned about the tools with every game and were able to accomplish different things that they never thought possible.

JayK
12-26-06, 07:35 PM
Yeah to a degree, Sometimes the tools don't evolve much but the developer themselves get a better grasp of them. I bet later UE3 games will look better then GoW.

Look at the Burnout Series and Black, or even Grand Theft Auto Series... They all use Renderware but they learned about the tools with every game and were able to accomplish different things that they never thought possible.


Cool, more good info. I appreciate the opinions that everyone has thrown in. I'm still kinda torn though. I agree with everything y'all have said, yet I still kinda feel as though Gears is a first gen game. Who knows, maybe it's one of those things where you get something in your head and nothing seems to be able to change that, lol. I'm really enjoying this thread, i'm glad I started it. Hopefully it keeps going and more people add their opinions.