Catholic church excommunicates 9-year old rape victim for abortion

[LORD-eX-Bu]

I can't beleive anyone supports this church's actions (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2824241.stm). This girl was raped, got pregnant because of it. She would have died if she carried the pregnancy to term. So what does the church do? They excommunicated her, her parents, and the doctors that performed the abortion. I have nothing against catholics, but still, what is the reasoning behind this? what ever happened to compassion and charity?

[netviper13]

Another case of people taking religion way too far. I think that religion does a great disservice to faith sometimes.

Faith is a beautiful thing, but when one gets caught up in the nuances of the heaven/hell race, faith becomes pushed aside in favor of petty differences. If the individuals in this case (and others) could get it through their thick skulls that Jesus said he loved everyone regardless of what they had done (heck he sought out the "sinners" of the time), they wouldn't be so bigoted.

This case is suck and disgusting. If they honestly expected a 9-year old to carry a child to term when many 16-year olds aren't even capable of doing so, they were insane.

[ALobpreis]

You are forgetting a detail: murdering of an innocent baby.

Yeah, yeah, no one saw it, no one will miss it, it's insignificant.... :rolleyes:

There were 2 victims of the rape, and no one sees that.

[intercede007]

Originally posted by ALobpreis
You are forgetting a detail: murdering of an innocent baby.

Yeah, yeah, no one saw it, no one will miss it, it's insignificant.... :rolleyes:

There were 2 victims of the rape, and no one sees that.


I was typing something along those lines just as you posted it ;)

And it wasn't nearly as eloquent..much more wordy :D

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Yeah, but without the abortion both of them would have died. Don't tell me you'd rather see her die to satisfy your zealotry:eek:

EDIT: Of course I feel for the life that was lost, but sadly it was necessary. You have to take these things on a case by case basis and not generalize all abortions into one category. The real person at fault is the rapist, and the lives that he destroyed are on his head. And if these clergy members destroy the lives of these victims, then it will be on theirs as well.

[netviper13]

I hate comparing life, but honestly now a fully-functioning little girl whose life will be taken if the fetus is allowed to develop should get the precedent here. I wish medicine had advanced to the point where they could have surgically removed the fetus and raised it in a sort of incubator, but unfortunately it hasn't.

[ALobpreis]

Originally posted by netviper13
If the individuals in this case (and others) could get it through their thick skulls that Jesus said he loved everyone regardless of what they had done (heck he sought out the "sinners" of the time), they wouldn't be so bigoted.

Just because he loves everybody regardless of previous actions, you are should not do whatever sin you want, just because "he'll still love you"! :retard:

I know this is a very difficult case, and I don't know what I would have done. But don't take it so lightly, light "abort and no problem".

[LORD-eX-Bu]

so you're saying you consider that aborting the unborn child for the sake of saving the life of the 9-year old girl who was raped a sin?:confused:

[netviper13]

But it's the idea that the Catholic church likes to just get people out of its hair. It has been one of the more bigoted organizations out there as far as judging people has gone. The excommunication, execution, and future sainthood of Joan of Arc illustrates the contradiction in many of its actions. Not to say all Catholic churches are bad, I just really don't agree with this whole excommunication business. Seems like it's taking God's job of judgement into their own hands.

I really don't want to get into an abortion debate, because it was about the only choice here. If you honestly would rather see two dead people than one who was saved by a moderately controversial procedure then hey good for you, but I think in this case it's the greatest good for the greatest number of people.

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by netviper13
in this case it's the greatest good for the greatest number of people.

I'll stand by you on that;)

[intercede007]

The church has to be black and white on this. Why you ask?

The Pope, or any of his cardinals or priests DO NOT have the power to dicate transgressions into God's territory. They simply can not say "Abortions are OK if..or..when...because.." It has to be black and white. If God's word is fallable here..then whats next?

The girl lived, the parents aren't going to jail..the story has a happy ending. Get on with life.

[netviper13]

I don't think this is a Dogma type issue here. The Bible doesn't specifically (at least if my memory serves me correctly) mention abortion. It does say that killing is bad, but even killing is justified by God for certain occasions; occasions when the conditions of greater good for the greater number of people is usually met. Like when God destroyed the world with the flood, a lot of people died, but it was ultimately better for humanity.

[intercede007]

"You shall not kill: and whoever kills shall be liable to judgement."

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you" Jeremiah 1:5


'Human life is sacred because from its beginning it involves the creative action of God and it remains for ever in a special relationship with the Creator, who is its sole end. God alone is the Lord of life from its beginning until its end: no one can under any circumstance claim for himself the right directly to destroy an innocent human being.' The Catechism

[UDawg]

I have to admit this has always been a tough situation. I cannot come down clearly on a side. Abortion is evil to me but in the case of rape and to save a womans life? I cannot say with a clear mind what is right.

I do how ever believe that it is not a woman's issues but a society issue. It comes down to the simple idea that does a society value life? If the answer is yes we value life then a fetus must be protected. If the answer is no, we do not value life then we have what is going on today. Abortion on demand. This situation how ever is not an abortion on demand. It is a question that must be thoughtfully approached.

I do not contain the intellect or the moral high ground to make such a decision. God please may I never have to make this decision.

Sorry but I think I didn't add clearity to this topic but only muddied it a little more. :(


BTW THis is awesome.

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you" Jeremiah 1:5

Do you realize what this means? It is as Intercede said. Before your parents were even born before time was God knew you. That just blows my mind and completely comforts me.

[LORD-eX-Bu]

No worries, all input is welcome.

[intercede007]

No, you made a very good point.

The fact is that the Church can not support abortion in any capacity. Netviper talks about the greater good. If the chuch endorses an abortion, where does it stop? Can you close that door after you open it up? Even just once?

[ALobpreis]

Don't take the Bible literally, specially the old testament.
God didn't need 6 days to make Earth. Girls are not made from a bone. :p

In the old testament, when you read "God's hate", "rage", "ire" or "anger", it's about men ignoring God and making their destiny by their own.
We are going a bit far over here... :p

A sin is doing something opposite to God's will or God's nature. Killing a human being isn't precisely God's will, and here the parents/doctors played God's role as choosing who lives and who dies.

[UDawg]

I do know that the french would have sent inspectors to monitor the situaion and once a solution is found they would have voted against the solution. Then they will protest their own vote.

... this gives us just cause to bomb Iraq again.

[intercede007]

Originally posted by UDawg71
I do know that the french would have sent inspectors to monitor the situaion and once a solution is found they would have voted against the solution. Then they will protest their own vote.

... this gives us just cause to bomb Iraq again.



HAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!! :clap: :clap:

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Originally posted by intercede007
The fact is that the Church can not support abortion in any capacity. Netviper talks about the greater good. If the chuch endorses an abortion, where does it stop? Can you close that door after you open it up? Even just once?

I guess it all depends on the church. Mines, for example, does not support abortion but we make exception to it when it is necessary in cases involving rape, incest, or when the mother's life is in danger and there is no other choice. I don't see what is so hard about that? conditions are set and there is no "open door that you can't shut on abortion" involved. I know it isn't just Mormons that feel this way:)

[The Baron]

Intercede, I get the feeling that you're Catholic... which is odd.

Let's see... both Catholic, both like RATM, both like Stevie Ray Vaughn... dear God, we're the SAME PERSON! AIEEEEEEEEEEEE!

okay, this thread may now officially return on topic.

[intercede007]

LOL!!!!

Yup..Catholic man..born n' raised.

Hehe....lots of coincidences ehh? ;)

[intercede007]

Originally posted by [eNv]-LORD-eX-Bu
I guess it all depends on the church. Mines, for example, does not support abortion but we make exception to it when it is necessary in cases involving rape, incest, or when the mother's life is in danger and there is no other choice. I don't see what is so hard about that? conditions are set and there is no "open door that you can't shut on abortion" involved. I know it isn't just Mormons that feel this way:)


Which is exactly why my LDS Fiancee and I decided a long time ago that we would agree to disagree on the subject. I support my churchs decision to firmly oppose abortion, and she supports her churchs decision to allow abortions.

I think the discussion only ever came up once in our relationship, so it's really a non-issue. I understand where she is coming from, and she sees my point as well.

If we all agreed, this forum wouldn't be nearly as much fun, would it now?

[vampireuk]

OK lets drop this sanctity of life BS for this. The person in question was a 9 year old girl. She is not physically developed and cannot mother a child. Lets also add that she was RAPED

Put it this way, if this was your kid would you be on the moral high ground regarding something like this then? Catholicism bugs the hell out of me and in many cases is pathetic, this is coming from someone who has been a catholic for 13 years. When I hit 13 bam out of the window it went:D

[sytaylor]

Originally posted by vampireuk
Put it this way, if this was your kid would you be on the moral high ground regarding something like this then? Catholicism bugs the hell out of me and in many cases is pathetic, this is coming from someone who has been a catholic for 13 years. When I hit 13 bam out of the window it went:D

AMEN ;) Same thing here, was brought up by a family who insisted that I must become a Christian, but was always confused by my mum not doing so. When i got older i later found out its because she didn't believe it, and as soon as i stopped believing everything by default and started questioning it, i found too many reasons to throw it out the window.