Aclu

[LORD-eX-Bu]

ROFLMAO! I was just watching TV and I saw this ACLU ad that came on about them going off about Ashcroft re-writing the constitution. I really didn't care for that part, but what really made me laugh my ass off was when they said... "The American Civil Liberties Union, defending your rights for the past 80 years" and I was like WTF?!? haha, I mean, c'mon, they are the biggest threat to this country since the communists lol:D

[1stFlight]

eNv - I often wonder what you're smoking over there, but I'll humor you on this one. If conservatives really were conservatives, they'd be honoring the whole of the Constitution instead of just the 2nd Amendment. Where were they during the civil rights movement, any free speech issues, maintaining the separation between church and state, or personal privacy issues? Why aren't they defending these ideals? Are they not American enough ideals? They're mentioned by our founding fathers.

The reason the ACLU exists is to give all Americans their Constituionally given rights. Even you.

[UDawg]

Originally posted by 1stFlight
eNv - I often wonder what you're smoking over there, but I'll humor you on this one. If conservatives really were conservatives, they'd be honoring the whole of the Constitution instead of just the 2nd Amendment. Where were they during the civil rights movement, any free speech issues, maintaining the separation between church and state, or personal privacy issues? Why aren't they defending these ideals? Are they not American enough ideals? They're mentioned by our founding fathers.

The reason the ACLU exists is to give all Americans their Constituionally given rights. Even you.


POP!!! You hear that sound? That is my cork popping.

What a load of pig poo (all the muslim children run away covering their ears)

First off I will tell you where the conservatives where during the the Civil rights movent. They were the ones who passed the darn thing. The reason why the Democrats dominated the south for the last 40 years it because the Republicans supports the civil rights law. Democrats did not. They were against it and thus won favor with the white southen folk. Go back and read up on it.

Secondly, I ask you why liberals are so against the 2nd amendment? To answer you question it is because the 2nd amendment is a linch pin in the constitution that keeps us from being taken over by the left.

The ACLU is a joke. They do not defend our constitution. Our armed forces do.

[ASCI Blue]

Actually our armed forces don't defend our constitution either. They only follow orders like drones. The only people who can defend the constitution are the people living under it. That means us.

[UDawg]

Originally posted by ASCI Blue
Actually our armed forces don't defend our constitution either. They only follow orders like drones. The only people who can defend the constitution are the people living under it. That means us.


:rolleyes:

Do I have to explain this to you? Ok, I will

We live in a Democratic Republic. That means we elect repesentatives democratically to speak for us. Our elections are our voice and the military which is made up of volunteers are commanded by our Chief Executive Officer ( the president for you who live in Dade country Florida). Since the President is democratically elected by the people and the voluntary military that takes orders from him/her ( just didn't want to offend any muslim children) then it is the military that defends our constitution.

You are correct and I am correct. I just felt like giving a civics lesson. :p

[ASCI Blue]

You are correct in the way that the military protects our rights from forign attack (whatever that is worth). Since the military falls under the presidents orders they are forced to obey them reguardless of how good those orders are. The right to keep and bear arms was designed to ensure that a dictator/king couldn't take over our country, an armed population is harder to control than an unarmed population.

As it is our constitution is part fluke. We were supposed to have fewer rights but they couldn't gather the rest of the signers to sign the redraft.

[1stFlight]

Put your cork back in, sit back and get schooled.

I'm talking about recent times, not civil war era. Strom Thrumond, Trent Lott;etc. The people we CURRENTLY have.

The same people who for some reason think the Constitution only applies to white people.

And liberals wonder (like I do myself) why any idiot with a 2 IQ can own a firearm, with no test, certifcation or (God forbid) a weapon fingerprint. You go through more to own a car, than you a do a device designed to take a human life. And yes I said that, a human life, or do you really go deer hunting with a Glock? Most "liberals" aren't against teh 2nd Amendmentl, they just want to apply some common sense before the next office, school, or mall shooting.

Also, there's this second part about "being part of a well regualted militia" that the NRA keeps overlooking, Gee, wonder what the forefathers meant by that?

And no the Armed Forces dont' defend the Constitution, it's actually not in our mandate.

Originally posted by UDawg71
POP!!! You hear that sound? That is my cork popping.

What a load of pig poo (all the muslim children run away covering their ears)

First off I will tell you where the conservatives where during the the Civil rights movent. They were the ones who passed the darn thing. The reason why the Democrats dominated the south for the last 40 years it because the Republicans supports the civil rights law. Democrats did not. They were against it and thus won favor with the white southen folk. Go back and read up on it.

Secondly, I ask you why liberals are so against the 2nd amendment? To answer you question it is because the 2nd amendment is a linch pin in the constitution that keeps us from being taken over by the left.

The ACLU is a joke. They do not defend our constitution. Our armed forces do.

[StealthHawk]

for one, it's a lot easier to find someone to buy you a gun or buy one illegally yourself than to do the same with a car.

presumably with a car you'll be using it everyday, leaving it out in the open, etc. if you can't drive you'll eventually get pulled over by a cop and then the truth will be revealed(lack of registration). most people don't actively wield their firearms and flaunt them in public.

it's like they say. making it harder to get a gun only hurts the people who legitmately want one. everyone else will get one anyway.

[Matthyahuw]

the ACLU should die!

HEY! I've got an idea! Lets take out the bible and prayer from schools cuz it might offend others, but don't forget we need a muslim day in the classroom to see what other religions are like, don't need any of the Christian crap, but stuff about serial killers, and vampires, and wiccans, and muslims, and hindis, and anything else is cool! piercing your lip to your ear? that's cool too, but the bible? oh, that's evil.

who cares about morals when you might offend someone with God's love...sheesh :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[ASCI Blue]

I'm quite liberal and I'm all for the second amendment. The streets are safer with either an armed population or completly unarmed population. Sadly the only middle ground would come if all people were halfway decent. Not all people are halfway decent so there have to be the extremes.

Which part of school are you aiming at with the bible? Are you talking a morning prayer circle deal where a group snags a corner of the building and does their thing or you talking about it literally in the classrooms. Far as I'm concerned in my liberal manor is live and let live but keep me out of it unless I volenteer. Of course if one goes by that the only way to stop something is if it causes a disturbance and in the event of a prayer circle wiccans, satanists, muslims, buddists, and the like will also be entitled to do their thing **if** it doesn't cause a major disturbance to all of the people present.

[1stFlight]

You know that arguement is so old it's not funny, a simply workaround would be a "moment of silence". In which you can do whatever the h3ll you want. See, there, everybody's happy without shoving anyones religion down anyones throat. Remeber, there's more than Christians out there, there's Satanists too... respect one, respect them all. Or just simply none...

Speaking of morals, your differ wholly from mine, not that I consider you an amoral person, but I certainly would want you teaching my kids it's likewise I'm sure. See where this goes yet?!

The problem with conservative thinking is that they tend to forget there's 5,999,999,999 other people in the world besides themselves.

Originally posted by Matthyahuw
the ACLU should die!

HEY! I've got an idea! Lets take out the bible and prayer from schools cuz it might offend others, but don't forget we need a muslim day in the classroom to see what other religions are like, don't need any of the Christian crap, but stuff about serial killers, and vampires, and wiccans, and muslims, and hindis, and anything else is cool! piercing your lip to your ear? that's cool too, but the bible? oh, that's evil.

who cares about morals when you might offend someone with God's love...sheesh :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Kruno]

WOW! America is a very strange place. :|

I'm glad I live in Australia.

[Shinri Hikari]

What amendment to the constitution specifies that abortion is legal? Answer:the one the ACLU wrote.:rolleyes: Enough said!:mad:

[UDawg]

Originally posted by 1stFlight
Put your cork back in, sit back and get schooled.

I'm talking about recent times, not civil war era. Strom Thrumond, Trent Lott;etc. The people we CURRENTLY have.

The same people who for some reason think the Constitution only applies to white people.

And liberals wonder (like I do myself) why any idiot with a 2 IQ can own a firearm, with no test, certifcation or (God forbid) a weapon fingerprint. You go through more to own a car, than you a do a device designed to take a human life. And yes I said that, a human life, or do you really go deer hunting with a Glock? Most "liberals" aren't against teh 2nd Amendmentl, they just want to apply some common sense before the next office, school, or mall shooting.

Also, there's this second part about "being part of a well regualted militia" that the NRA keeps overlooking, Gee, wonder what the forefathers meant by that?

And no the Armed Forces dont' defend the Constitution, it's actually not in our mandate.


Uhhhh...:retard: You said and I quote "Where were they during the civil rights movement" I answered you. The Republicans signed the law with no oppositions. The democrats opposed it except a few. The civil rights movement was during the late 50's and 60's, the 19hundreds that is. The civil war was during the 1860's. What school was I supposed to be at? :confused:

Now you want to talk about Srom, Lott? They believe as I do that there should not be racial quotas or a point system for people of a certain skin color. That is racism.

finally when you join the military you take an oath to defend the constitution of the united states the same as the president take when he takes office.

[netviper13]

Originally posted by Shinri Hikari
What amendment to the constitution specifies that abortion is legal? Answer:the one the ACLU wrote.:rolleyes: Enough said!:mad:

Umm there's no amendment for it. The supreme court decided in Roe v. Wade that the right to privacy includes matters of childbearing.

Think of it this way: either they get it performed safely by a doctor or they do it in a dark alley with a coat hanger. But that's a debate for the other thread.

On the topic of the ACLU, it was created with a very noble cause. After the asshole A. Mitchell Palmer went on a crusade in America and arrested 6,000 people, most of whom were innocent, America needed someone to watch out for its freedoms. It seems conservatives love to toot their horns about liberty, but are all too quick to take almost all liberty away during times of war.

[1stFlight]

Dude are you an eNv smoking the same thing over there??

During the Civil Rights movement, 1960's mind you. Strom led a filibuster (stalling tatic) against impliementing any civil right legislation. And Lott has said so many stupid things its finally gotten him bounced from Majority Leader. It wasn't just one thing he'd said, but several things over the couse of time.

Most Republicans, advocate Segrationism and a few still do. But here, don't take my word for it. Read a bit on Lott yourself Link (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,399310,00.html)
Or about about a bit on StromLink (http://cgi.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1996/analysis/back.time/9609/10/)
He was so against civl rights, he set a record. I believe it still stands.

Quota's, have to say these arguements were posted decades ago, by lawyers, and politicians in the know. Given that the law passed then. I don't think we've all the information to make a valid arguement now. But I will say, "are things fair yet between the races? "

P.S. On the abortion note, where does the Governement get the right to tell you want to do with your body. If you're competent, that choice is always yours. Be it ever so ugly, it is far from my right to force my viewpoints on others. Liberals understand this, conservatives don't.


Originally posted by UDawg71
Uhhhh...:retard: You said and I quote "Where were they during the civil rights movement" I answered you. The Republicans signed the law with no oppositions. The democrats opposed it except a few. The civil rights movement was during the late 50's and 60's, the 19hundreds that is. The civil war was during the 1860's. What school was I supposed to be at? :confused:

Now you want to talk about Srom, Lott? They believe as I do that there should not be racial quotas or a point system for people of a certain skin color. That is racism.

finally when you join the military you take an oath to defend the constitution of the united states the same as the president take when he takes office.

[Phyre]

Originally posted by 1stFlight
.... P.S. On the abortion note, where does the Governement get the right to tell you want to do with your body. If you're competent, that choice is always yours. Be it ever so ugly, it is far from my right to force my viewpoints on others. Liberals understand this, conservatives don't.

I understand what you're saying about the forcing of "viewpoints on others." But, what I don't understand is how another's viewpoints can be forced upon a child who has not even had one femtosecond out of the womb.

Phyre

[1stFlight]

Tough call, there's two sides to the arguement

1) You own your own body, including everything in it.

2) You don't own your own body, including anything in it.

Eithey way you go, the answer is going to be nasty. After all, it's not like U.S.A issues these things out to us. A life isn't a right, it's dammed good luck.

As I see it once you're born, at that point, you own you. Up until that point, your mother does. I don't expect many people have my viewpoint, but as I've said I don't go imposing it on others either.


Originally posted by Phyre
I understand what you're saying about the forcing of "viewpoints on others." But, what I don't understand is how another's viewpoints can be forced upon a child who has not even had one femtosecond out of the womb.

Phyre

[UDawg]

Originally posted by 1stFlight
Dude are you an eNv smoking the same thing over there??

During the Civil Rights movement, 1960's mind you. Strom led a filibuster (stalling tatic) against impliementing any civil right legislation. And Lott has said so many stupid things its finally gotten him bounced from Majority Leader. It wasn't just one thing he'd said, but several things over the couse of time.

Most Republicans, advocate Segrationism and a few still do. But here, don't take my word for it. Read a bit on Lott yourself Link (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,399310,00.html)
Or about about a bit on StromLink (http://cgi.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1996/analysis/back.time/9609/10/)
He was so against civl rights, he set a record. I believe it still stands.

Quota's, have to say these arguements were posted decades ago, by lawyers, and politicians in the know. Given that the law passed then. I don't think we've all the information to make a valid arguement now. But I will say, "are things fair yet between the races? "

P.S. On the abortion note, where does the Governement get the right to tell you want to do with your body. If you're competent, that choice is always yours. Be it ever so ugly, it is far from my right to force my viewpoints on others. Liberals understand this, conservatives don't.

You are talking about two different things. Srom who admited he was wrong on his views back then and lott who was a complete idiot as senate majority leadre IMO. Your agument is dumb you take two examples of people who were racist and I dont defend them. Yet you didn't mention Rober Byrd, former KKK member. Also you ignore the fact of the voting records of the civil rights act. Go back and research it. You took one person but did not look at the whole issue. This type of lefsist revisionist bull makes me mad. Democrats opposed the civil rights act. Republicans passed it.

As far as abortion, if you feel fine with killing innocent lives then that is your vise. It is ironic that the same people who defend the right to kill children also do not want to liberate a oppresed people in Iraq. Of course the left defends communism which has killed more people than all wars combined..

The only thing you lefties can point to is the Spanish inquisition and the crusades as our big failures. that was 700 years ago now get over it. While you completely ignore what Socialism and Communism did in just the last 80 years.

One last thing about the crusades. How did they start? Well a very peacefull religious lead name Mohamed decided everyone should be like him. So what did he do. Well he slaughtered Christians left and right. Drove them out of hte middle east out of Isreal Cyria ect... Then when the christians who decided enough was enough and they decided to take back their land you get your panties in a bind. As far as I'm concerned they got what they dished out. Yes people in the name of God commited mass murders during the crusades and they will be judges for that but that has nothing to do with the church today. what was done over that period does not make dent in the amount of life killed in the name of world communism. Again more people have died in the name of human secularism, socialism, comunism than all previous wars combined and this was just in the last 80 years.
Now how can I say this? Easy the wrold population up to modern time did not come close to the amount of people killed under the secular regimes.

[silence]

well...during crusades whole population of planet wasn't as big as population of soviet union duringstalin so crusaders couldn't kill so many even if they wanted to;)

and one more thing.......looks like you forgot how many ppl were killed by right extremist regimes, like nazis or fascists or military regimes in south america.

[1stFlight]

Nope, I'm talking about the same thing my initial arguement was that the conservatives (i.e. Republicans of this era have never stood for civil rights. The Republicans of the the 50's and 60's may have passed something, but it wasn't without fighting against it. I've given two examples of two "honored" members of the Republican party and the best you can dig up is Mr. Byrd who in his time on the hill has yet to shove his foot in his mouth anywhere near the number of time as the MAJORITY LEADER!!!! I may not judge by teh company you keep, but I sure as h3ll can by your chosen leadership.

You want research, why don't you check who was in power in the south during the civil rights days, it wasn't the Democrats. Need to see who's stood in the path of adding gays, handicapped, and anyone else "odd", into civil rights legistaltion. Do yor research, and vote informed next time.

Abortion, I support the fact that you own you. Period. I don't support the war because simply, Bush handed the world a line of sh*t and it looks like too many swallowed it whole. Freeing the oppressed is that last thing on Bush's mind, or he would have started with that arguement in the first place, and gone through Congress, instead of threatening to bypass them. Bush has had so many arguements for his little war I've lost track of which reason he wants to go there.

Communism has killed, Democracy has killed. The type of governement doesn't mean jack. The law and how it is applied is all that matters. You could live in a Monarchy and so long as the monarch is good, life is good. Can that so south, better believe it! You can live in a democracy, can it go south yup! Sure can, McCarthy anyone, Slavery? And flashback to the Cold War days if you'd like. We fought a lot of wars by proxy, thereby making ourselves just as guilty. Where do you think bin Laden came from? We employed him!

As for Religion, lets just say the Dark Ages still leaves a bitter taste in our mouths and we can see from the rate of Catholic boys getting abused and the sheer lengths the Church has gone through to make sure their abusers never face trial. That given the chance, we'd be right back in those days in a heartbeat. Religion can be good thing, but like all things, faith can be abused. I puke everytime I see one of the televagilists come across my tv asking for money to deed "the children", while building multi-million dollar homes for themselves. And churches the size of footbal stadiums. Wonder how many kids the could have fed with that?!

And lastly, your end arguement only serves to say, "people kill people". No kidding.

I'm liberal because I'm not blind to the stupid things we've done in the past and the hope for improvement lies in the future, not staying stagnant.

Originally posted by UDawg71
You are talking about two different things. Srom who admited he was wrong on his views back then and lott who was a complete idiot as senate majority leadre IMO. Your agument is dumb you take two examples of people who were racist and I dont defend them. Yet you didn't mention Rober Byrd, former KKK member. Also you ignore the fact of the voting records of the civil rights act. Go back and research it. You took one person but did not look at the whole issue. This type of lefsist revisionist bull makes me mad. Democrats opposed the civil rights act. Republicans passed it.

As far as abortion, if you feel fine with killing innocent lives then that is your vise. It is ironic that the same people who defend the right to kill children also do not want to liberate a oppresed people in Iraq. Of course the left defends communism which has killed more people than all wars combined..

The only thing you lefties can point to is the Spanish inquisition and the crusades as our big failures. that was 700 years ago now get over it. While you completely ignore what Socialism and Communism did in just the last 80 years.

One last thing about the crusades. How did they start? Well a very peacefull religious lead name Mohamed decided everyone should be like him. So what did he do. Well he slaughtered Christians left and right. Drove them out of hte middle east out of Isreal Cyria ect... Then when the christians who decided enough was enough and they decided to take back their land you get your panties in a bind. As far as I'm concerned they got what they dished out. Yes people in the name of God commited mass murders during the crusades and they will be judges for that but that has nothing to do with the
church today. what was done over that period does not make dent in the amount of life killed in the name of world communism. Again more people have died in the name of human secularism, socialism, comunism than all previous wars combined and this was just in the last 80 years.
Now how can I say this? Easy the wrold population up to modern time did not come close to the amount of people killed under the secular regimes.

[UDawg]

Originally posted by 1stFlight
Nope, I'm talking about the same thing my initial arguement was that the conservatives (i.e. Republicans of this era have never stood for civil rights. The Republicans of the the 50's and 60's may have passed something, but it wasn't without fighting against it. I've given two examples of two "honored" members of the Republican party and the best you can dig up is Mr. Byrd who in his time on the hill has yet to shove his foot in his mouth anywhere near the number of time as the MAJORITY LEADER!!!! I may not judge by teh company you keep, but I sure as h3ll can by your chosen leadership.

You want research, why don't you check who was in power in the south during the civil rights days, it wasn't the Democrats. Need to see who's stood in the path of adding gays, handicapped, and anyone else "odd", into civil rights legistaltion. Do yor research, and vote informed next time.

Abortion, I support the fact that you own you. Period. I don't support the war because simply, Bush handed the world a line of sh*t and it looks like too many swallowed it whole. Freeing the oppressed is that last thing on Bush's mind, or he would have started with that arguement in the first place, and gone through Congress, instead of threatening to bypass them. Bush has had so many arguements for his little war I've lost track of which reason he wants to go there.

Communism has killed, Democracy has killed. The type of governement doesn't mean jack. The law and how it is applied is all that matters. You could live in a Monarchy and so long as the monarch is good, life is good. Can that so south, better believe it! You can live in a democracy, can it go south yup! Sure can, McCarthy anyone, Slavery? And flashback to the Cold War days if you'd like. We fought a lot of wars by proxy, thereby making ourselves just as guilty. Where do you think bin Laden came from? We employed him!

As for Religion, lets just say the Dark Ages still leaves a bitter taste in our mouths and we can see from the rate of Catholic boys getting abused and the sheer lengths the Church has gone through to make sure their abusers never face trial. That given the chance, we'd be right back in those days in a heartbeat. Religion can be good thing, but like all things, faith can be abused. I puke everytime I see one of the televagilists come across my tv asking for money to deed "the children", while building multi-million dollar homes for themselves. And churches the size of footbal stadiums. Wonder how many kids the could have fed with that?!

And lastly, your end arguement only serves to say, "people kill people". No kidding.

I'm liberal because I'm not blind to the stupid things we've done in the past and the hope for improvement lies in the future, not staying stagnant.


I had a huge rebutle posted then I thougt better. There isn't any point in arguing with someone who thinks the US is no better than any of the communist states we fought. Truely sad. Looks like relativism is on march in these forums. :(

[1stFlight]

Majority Leader somehow doesn't equal an honored position. Well if you say so. I think those in the Senate would tend to disagree with you.

And if you're going to rate Clinton's lying about who gave him head against Bush wanting to use nuclear weapons in Iraq. I'm not the only one with moral issues here.

I tell you look up the congressional record and tell me what the votes are. You also say I can only point to Byrd. While Al Gore Sr. voted against the civil rights act. Oh but that is ok. Yes Byrd has opened his mouth nad put his foot in it many times in the recent years but the media never commented on it. He actually used the N word but that is ok because he is a democrat.

It looks like you're talking about 1 BILL compared to all of the ones ever submitted, are you so narrowminded?

Now lets see how full of poo you are, lets take our V-P ANd follow this Link (http://bush-cheney.net/issues/civilrights.html)
Hmm, doesn't look good for the hometeam does it?
Or a litle history on the '64 bill Link (http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/03/01/11_lott.html)
I'm sure they signed it, but it begs to ask why, when so many of them supported the h3ll out of segration and discrimination. Once a long time ago Republicans were on the cause of good, and the Democrats were not (circa, Civil War), but times have changed. Grow up.

Also you TOOL! HItler was the leader of the German Socialist Party. The Brown Shirt party. He was a leftist just like Stalin.
Musilini was a Facist a extreme murderous right nut.
DO NOT EVER PUT ANYONE IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY OR CONSERVATIVES IN THAT GROUP AGAIN!!! That is a completely errisponsible statement.

First grow up and refrain from the name calling, And you're made the point that parties can transition. Yeah, want a sucker? To go from a liberal mindset to facist one is quite a leap or are you calling me in league with people like Hitler? That I might mind.

As for world communism failing everywhere in the world. You really don't know much do you? China with over 1billion people, is communist, Cuba, which has been under sanctions for nearly 70 years, is communist. the only reason the USSR fell is because we bankrupted them. That's it, nothing else. No political system is perfect, realize that.

Oh also, Russia was a Democracy before they went Communist. Democracy can fail too.

At what point in the day did anyone say they were glad Reagan was shot? Where'd that leap come from? What are you on over there? Conservatives worry me for just this reason, they think everybody thinks like they do. And that couldn't be further fron the truth.

[netviper13]

As ironic as it may be, the Republican party was actually more liberal than the Democratic party for quite some time when it came to civil rights.

Ever heard of the Solid South? Thought so. The southerners voted for democrats because they gave the south what it wanted.

That's not the case today though.

[1stFlight]

Unfortuantely, this "was" was nearly 100 years ago.

Can't say I've ever heard of the "Solid South" before, then again I'm a Northerner

Originally posted by netviper13
As ironic as it may be, the Republican party was actually more liberal than the Democratic party for quite some time when it came to civil rights.

Ever heard of the Solid South? Thought so. The southerners voted for democrats because they gave the south what it wanted.

That's not the case today though.