Vanguard NDA lifted

[ruziel]

Subject says it all.

Hey all, as of about 2 minutes ago, Beta 5 has started. Its not "completely" open per se quite yet though, we're going to be staggering the new testers coming in today, and then opening it up. We'll be sending out a press notice in a few minutes here too, and I will post that here when its out.

Anyway, what that means, is that the NDA is as of right now, lifted.

Have fun, all.
__________________
Nick Parkinson
Community Manager
Sigil Games Online

http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorpg-general-discussion/26686-vanguard-beta-5-a.html

[Tygerwoody]

good!


VANGUARD IS THE BIGGEST PEICE OF CRAP EVER!


Thats the short and sweet of it. No, that wasnt a joke. It really is a terrible game. It was promised to be "the next everquest" and it ended up being the next "Sims Online". It runs like trash, looks like trash, and has gameplay worse than the entire Gothic serious. Its bad. Very bad. Probably one of if not THE BIGGEST letdown of any MMORPG to date. Words can't express how absolutely terrible Vanguard is.

P.S. As a reference before someone starts shouting anything about "WoW". I dont play WoW. I don't particularly like it either. It seems like a fun and good game, I just didn't like it. Notice, while I do not like WoW, I will give it respect and say it is a good game. Vanguard just isn't a good game. I've probably played more MMORPG's than 99% of this entire forum. So yes, I can say with confidence that Vanguard isn't very good.

[|MaguS|]

good!


VANGUARD IS THE BIGGEST PEICE OF CRAP EVER! DO NOT BUY IT!


Thats the short and sweet of it. No, that wasnt a joke. It really is a terrible game. It was promised to be "the next everquest" and it ended up being the next "Sims Online". It runs like trash, looks like trash, and has gameplay worse than the entire Gothic serious. Its bad. Very bad. Probably one of if not THE BIGGEST letdown of any MMORPG to date. Words can't express how absolutely terrible Vanguard is.

I agree... Such a disappointment. I had such high hopes for it and it turned out to be such trash.

So many good ideas in the game but none of them are implemented properly.

EDIT: To Add...

I think the worse thing about the entire beta was that Sigil didn't give a rats ass about the horrible performance of the game. Im talking low 20's here even on medium settings... They kept saying its due to the size of the world and no loading... bull**** bull**** bull****. It's due to crappy as developer... they turned a fine tuned engine like the unreal 2 engine and made it run like it was some POS Budget title.

[Tygerwoody]

The game runs like crap. It runs fine on my 8800 GTX, but thats minimum requirement for this bloody game. It ran terrible on both my 7900GTX and 7950GX2. But lets not talk about graphics because EVERYONE knows(except for sigil) that graphics aren't important for a good MMORPG. Gameplay is. Thats is where Vanguard fails even more. Vanguard consisted of WAY too many ideas for one game. They tried to accomplish way too many things that simply conflicted with one another. There is absolutely no since of direction. This is an idea of what goes on at Sigil:



Random guy 1: "Hey Brad, I think this game should be dedicated towards REAL PC gamers. Lets give it extreme requirements! If the kids can't afford a PC to run the game, they won't play it! More fun for us old folks!"

Brad McQuaid: "sure thing, great idea!"

Random guy 2: "Hey Brad, in this game its too hard to find quest NPCs. Lets give EVERY quest NPC a BIG stupid Logo on top of its head. Considering we will have kids playing the game(who can't read), a BIG anoying logo would be an excellent choice! Lets make it easy for them!"

Brad: "I thought you guys didn't want kids on this game? Either way, SURE that idea is great! More kids on our game!"

Random guy 3: "Hey Brad, we need a million useless skills for each class! That way, we can weed out all the kids who want to have fun on the game! We will require then to change out skills EVERY FREAKING LEVEL! Less fun = less kids playing!"

Brad: "Right... ... yes... Less kids on our game. Make it so!"

Random guy 4: "Hey Brad! This zombie is WAY to ****ing hard! Kids will be playing this game, we need it to be easy!!! One hit should kill it!"

Brad: "Excellent idea! I love how you think. We need this game to have kids so that we will be popular!"

Random guy 5: "Hey brad! This peon rat is WAY too easy! This game is for ADULTS in case you haven't noticed! This rat should have an AREA EFFECT super death spell that KILLS anything within a 50 yard radius every time it wiggles its whiskers!"

Brad: "Yes, the adults will love the fact we have THE MOST POWERFUL RAT EVER IN AN MMORPG! It will show that our game TRUELY is meant for us old people
!"
Random guy 6: "Hey Brad! I think bards are overpowered in ALL games due to their speed. Even though the entire point of a bard is to be the fastest thing on foot, lets throw these bards a curve ball! Lets make their bard speed VERY slow, barely faster than run and MUCH slower than a horse! Kids LOVE ridding horses! If bards don't want to ride horses, less kids will play! We can't have that happen!"

Brad: "I see your point. We do need more people to use horses. If bards are fast they probably won't play horses. We only have 30 classes in Vanguard. If bards don't use horses, that means 3-4% of the population won't use a horse! That number is far too great!!!! EVERYONE needs a horse! The kids will LOVE seeing EVERY FREAKING PERSON THEY SEE riding a horse!!! Great Idea! Do it!"

[nrdstrm]

Sorry to rain on your parade guys, but I'm enjoying myself. I've been in since beta 2 (same as Magus I think), and the game has come a long way. Sure some things aren't in that they wanted. Name me an MMO that launches with all the things that were talked about! Anyway, I guess it all comes down to personal preference. I currently like it better than any other MMO on the market. That doesn't mean I'm not still looking at other games, and to be honest, if it was my "ideal" game I wouldn't be looking at other MMO's. But I will be playing this at (the way to early) launch.

Perhaps your hopes were TOO sky high. I didn't go into beta with any preconcieved expectations, so I suppose that could be why I'm enjoying it more than you guys. BTW, I've seen plenty of POSITIVE reviews from beta testers too, so it's not JUST me...

**EDIT**
@ Magus - As far as performance goes, if your getting in the 20's, 1 of 2 things is going on.
1) Something is TERRIBLY wrong with your system or
2) Your omitting alot of factors.

The only time I drop into the 20's is in towns/cities. I'm getting 50-80FPS in ANY wild area. Khal is the worst by far, where I sometimes even drop to the teens. And yeah, the game is indeed a big resource hog and many players will be turned off by playing on "low" where the graphics look like EQ...

[J-Mag]

It's gotta be better than the Matrix Online.

[UDawg]

YOu guys just CRUSHED me. I had hoped this game would be at the last, good. I'll pop on the beta this evening and check it out but I will do so with a tear in my eye and a lump in my throat.

signed
Dissapointed...

[|MaguS|]

**EDIT**
@ Magus - As far as performance goes, if your getting in the 20's, 1 of 2 things is going on.
1) Something is TERRIBLY wrong with your system or
2) Your omitting alot of factors.

The only time I drop into the 20's is in towns/cities. I'm getting 50-80FPS in ANY wild area. Khal is the worst by far, where I sometimes even drop to the teens. And yeah, the game is indeed a big resource hog and many players will be turned off by playing on "low" where the graphics look like EQ...

Could it be SLi? You have Core 2 also don't you? Game likes faster CPUs more then GPUs... I can turn the settings max and get the same performance as it being at low settings.

[Redshirt #24]

Okay, I just want confirmation on something I heard elsewhere from other folks: how massive is the beta client installation?

[|MaguS|]

Mine was over 25GBs. Say was because as of last week, I deleted it from my HD... not worth the space honestly...

[ruziel]

Suffered through playing this game since beta2 because I thought, 'hey maybe if I just stick with it, keep submitting bugs and fresh ideas maybe the game will turn out ok.' WRONG! It's really a shame:(

It just feels like an amateur MMO that was thrown together at the last minute. Maybe a few months after release the game will be alright.

edit:



Perhaps your hopes were TOO sky high. I didn't go into beta with any preconcieved expectations, so I suppose that could be why I'm enjoying it more than you guys. BTW, I've seen plenty of POSITIVE reviews from beta testers too, so it's not JUST me...


That is a very good point. When I first started playing I was expecting the best MMO ever created, something along the lines of UO or EQ1 that would keep me playing for many years to come. And there are definitly some cool parts of the game, the sheer size of the world for one. They still have a few patches left in them before release, so who knows. And I'll probably still buy the game, just like how I bought all those other fantasy MMOs lol.

[Redshirt #24]

Considering that even Medieval: Total War II, a finished product, is barely half that size...sheeeeeeeit.

[nrdstrm]

Could it be SLi? You have Core 2 also don't you? Game likes faster CPUs more then GPUs... I can turn the settings max and get the same performance as it being at low settings.

Ahh..Yeah that makes sense. I forgot you weren't running a C2D...My bad...

To the others, try it out. Everyone has differing tastes. Magus hates it :thumbdwn: , I love it :) As mentioned above though you'll want to have a pretty beefy system to get it to look good!

[Sgt_Pitt]

the d/l is 7gig, expands to 25



VG isnt that bad, just remember its still in beta, alot of debugging code is still running, and alot of obsolete code will removed for the retail version.

[slick]

Aside from the obvious performance issues, the game just isn't fun. Like has been stated, the game has zero direction. It's trying WAY to hard and that is completely ruining it.

[Tygerwoody]

**EDIT**
@ Magus - As far as performance goes, if your getting in the 20's, 1 of 2 things is going on.
1) Something is TERRIBLY wrong with your system or
2) Your omitting alot of factors.

The only time I drop into the 20's is in towns/cities. I'm getting 50-80FPS in ANY wild area. Khal is the worst by far, where I sometimes even drop to the teens. And yeah, the game is indeed a big resource hog and many players will be turned off by playing on "low" where the graphics look like EQ...
sorry to rain on YOUR parade, but you have an 8800GTX. Like I said, thats minimum requirement for the game. The game runs fine on my 8800GTX. However, I had a freaking 7950GX2 on that game and it ran like crap. 20's and MAYBE 30's. A game that requires an 8800GTX to play is not a good game in my opinion. Thats just ONE issue with the game. There are LOADS more problems than just graphics issues.



Just as some reference. Magus and I probably know more about MMORPG's than just about anyone on this forum(if not EVERYONE, its very close). The game simply is not good. It has nothing to do with if "I like it or not". Its not a good game. It will fail miserably and Sigil will be a company no longer. I guess thats what you get for trying to please both EQ fans and WoW fans. Two completely different style games that should STAY two completely different style games. If they would have chose either route they would have suceeded just by the name "Brad McQuaid". Sadly they wanted to maximize their profits, got greedy, and tried to please EVERYONE. Perfect recipe for failure.

[nrdstrm]

sorry to rain on YOUR parade, but you have an 8800GTX. Like I said, thats minimum requirement for the game. The game runs fine on my 8800GTX. However, I had a freaking 7950GX2 on that game and it ran like crap. 20's and MAYBE 30's. A game that requires an 8800GTX to play is not a good game in my opinion. Thats just ONE issue with the game. There are LOADS more problems than just graphics issues.



Just as some reference. Magus and I probably know more about MMORPG's than just about anyone on this forum(if not EVERYONE, its very close). The game simply is not good. It has nothing to do with if "I like it or not". Its not a good game. It will fail miserably and Sigil will be a company no longer. I guess thats what you get for trying to please both EQ fans and WoW fans. Two completely different style games that should STAY two completely different style games. If they would have chose either route they would have suceeded just by the name "Brad McQuaid". Sadly they wanted to maximize their profits, got greedy, and tried to please EVERYONE. Perfect recipe for failure.

Err...I won't flame ya cause I like ya :D , but you didn't see the part where I AGREED with you guys?

And yeah, the game is indeed a big resource hog and many players will be turned off by playing on "low" where the graphics look like EQ...

As to game play we will simply have to agree to disagree. I am enjoying myself with the game...Pure and simple. For you to dismiss my opinion because "You and Magus" know the most about MMO's is extremely arrogant. Magus can tell you I'm a HUGE mmo fan (in fact, thats almost all I play), as we attended E3 together 2 years back. I have played most MMO's on the market, and I don't play "casual" style. I play a more "hardcore" style. I work 5 days a week and still play 6 hours a night on weekdays and 12 hour sessions on my days off. I like you, and always have, but I am dismayed at your holier than thou attitude about MMO's...

**EDIT** I will buy and play the game on launch, but it IS launching too early. I appreciated Brad's candor when he was asked "Why" on the forums. It just sucks. They are out of money, and he plain admitted it. I have no doubt that I will still be playing a year down the line, because IMO it is the best MMO out there atm (IMO). I also know that the first six months with be like beta 6, but gradually things will get ironed out. Please don't think I'm some kind of fan boy. I follow a few other MMO's currently in developement, such as STO and SGW. I wish LOTRO looked better to me, but it just doesn't. Age of Conan MIGHT be interesting, but I'm not following it all that closely. I'm not a Warhammer fan, so I probably won't play that one. I am also curious to see what Bioware does the with SWG rights, because I SO wanted THAT game to be my MMO. I was on the SWG forums 4 years before release, and even before the NGE, I thought it was crap...Maybe SWG is to me what Vanguard is to you guys, but I just don't see it...

[icecold1983]

would be sad if the game flopped and they didnt have enough money to patch it up, and the few adopters were just left out in the cold

[nrdstrm]

would be sad if the game flopped and they didnt have enough money to patch it up, and the few adopters were just left out in the cold

True, but I think SOE has the money to front them for the first 6 months to a year, but if it flopps that bad, they may just give up...Though they still havn't given up on SWG...What does that say :o

[Tygerwoody]

**EDIT** I will buy and play the game on launch, but it IS launching too early. I appreciated Brad's candor when he was asked "Why" on the forums. It just sucks. They are out of money, and he plain admitted it. I have no doubt that I will still be playing a year down the line, because IMO it is the best MMO out there atm (IMO). I also know that the first six months with be like beta 6, but gradually things will get ironed out. Please don't think I'm some kind of fan boy. I follow a few other MMO's currently in developement, such as STO and SGW. I wish LOTRO looked better to me, but it just doesn't. Age of Conan MIGHT be interesting, but I'm not following it all that closely. I'm not a Warhammer fan, so I probably won't play that one. I am also curious to see what Bioware does the with SWG rights, because I SO wanted THAT game to be my MMO. I was on the SWG forums 4 years before release, and even before the NGE, I thought it was crap...Maybe SWG is to me what Vanguard is to you guys, but I just don't see it...
Wow Brad actually said that? I will say that Brad McQuaid is probably the best thing to ever happen to MMORPG's. You can tell he pours his heart and soul into what he does. I do respect that.

I do want Vanguard to suceed. You have no earthly idea how bad I want it to suceed. My ENTIRE website and guild were put together soully because we were going to be "THE" guild for Vanguard. So yes, I've had alot of hopes for the game. When I get on to play, I am dreadfully bored. My guild(who again are ALL Brad McQuaid fanboi's) will not even touch the game. I wanted Vanguard to be MY game as well as my guilds. Its been extremely disappointing to see what it has become. Thats just my opinion.



As a sidenote I will say that my comment about me and Magus knowing more about MMORPG's than people of course did not mean everyone. I know there are people who have played them more than me and know a hell of alot more than me. Me and Magus are really the only ones who are outspoken about MMORPG around here. All I really was trying to say was in our VERY large experience of MMORPG's, Vanguard was a huge disappointment. I didn't mean to step on any toes. :o

[|MaguS|]

I dislike the game but im still going to play it at launch, wont be the first game I disliked and still bought just to see if I can try to like it. I mean I originally purchased many games and ended up loving them after I invested more time into them. I just didn't play Vanguards much in beta because of the horrid performance, I might have a different opinion of it after retail. Kind of how I loved DDO in Beta but in retail it got stale FAST or how I hated L2's beta and love the retail version.

[ruziel]

I heard a comment today from a friend that said people needed to realize that VG will be just another game in the progression of MMO's, and I think that is accurate to a degree. I really doubt we'll be seeing Vanguard Southpark episodes or Vanguard Officespace type advertisements.:p

[Parts]

I can say that I was in beta phase 2 and beyond, but the game didnt look good on any res under the highest default and ran VERY poorly, I heard it was because it was un-optimized, but apparently it still runs like a slide show, I made a speedhack easy and ran all over the place, fell through the world a lot, reported many bugs, but then the game stopped running because the other phases wouldnt let me play, pretty sure because I dont have SP2 installed, and for me it wasnt worth installing it for.

[UDawg]

Played it, didn't like it.

[Sgt_Pitt]

sorry to rain on YOUR parade, but you have an 8800GTX. Like I said, thats minimum requirement for the game. The game runs fine on my 8800GTX. However, I had a freaking 7950GX2 on that game and it ran like crap. 20's and MAYBE 30's. A game that requires an 8800GTX to play is not a good game in my opinion. Thats just ONE issue with the game. There are LOADS more problems than just graphics issues.



Just as some reference. Magus and I probably know more about MMORPG's than just about anyone on this forum(if not EVERYONE, its very close). The game simply is not good. It has nothing to do with if "I like it or not". Its not a good game. It will fail miserably and Sigil will be a company no longer. I guess thats what you get for trying to please both EQ fans and WoW fans. Two completely different style games that should STAY two completely different style games. If they would have chose either route they would have suceeded just by the name "Brad McQuaid". Sadly they wanted to maximize their profits, got greedy, and tried to please EVERYONE. Perfect recipe for failure.


The game is or could be 1 patch away from running like silk. Since were not developers we dont know

but i can tell you as of the last 2 days the performance has improved again, and they recognise the problem.

Sounds to me like your just interested in the frame rates, and since you couldnt get decent fps during the beta, you wrote it off. its not so much about the FPS, for most people its the HD thrashing thats giving people the problems.

Well the thing with MMO;s is once the game is released its not the end of the fixes.