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Vegetable
01-06-07, 05:32 PM
I'm now running a Radeon X1900 XTX and am considering an upgrade to the 8800 GTX. But can my computer run it? And do I really need TWO internal power cords? Because I don't think I have two power cords inside my box. Any advice appreciated. System specs are as follows:

Alienware Area-51 5550
Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional with Service Pack 2
Power Supply: Enermax 460 Watt Power Supply
Processor: Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 560J w/ HT Technology 3.6GHz 1MB Cache
Motherboard: Abit AA8XE (Intel® 925XE Chipset 1066/800MHz FSB)
Memory: 2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz - 2 x 1024MB
GPU (Video Card): ATI (VisionTek) Radeon X1900 XTX 512MB
Sound Card: Creative Sound Blaster® X-Fi Fatal1ty FPS (with 64Mb of "X-RAM")
Power Protection: Opti-UPS ES800C 800VA (480W Capacity)

Redeemed
01-06-07, 05:41 PM
Okay, you could probably (barely) run a single 8800GTX. We'd need to know more about your power supply in order to tell you one way or another. From the wattage standpoint you do meet nVidia's minimal requirement (I believe). But, I fear that you might not have enough amps available. Without know the actual specs I can't quite say one way or the other.

Do you have any PCI-e molex connectors? If you only have one, I'd recommend getting an 8800GTS instead. They can be had for under $400 now. And the performance they offer is only bested by GTS SLi or the GTX/GTX SLi.

The 8800GTS only requires a single PCI-e molex connector- and it has to be connected to the power supply via the 6-pin PCI-e connector. For the 8800GTX both 6-pin PCI-e connectors must be plugged in. If you only have one, you can get a y-adapter that will split it into two different PCI-e connectors. Infact, the video card should come with such an adapter when you purchase it.

Anyhow, unless you can fork out about $150 or more for a new power supply, I'd just go with a single 8800GTS for now. Later, get a beefier PSU and you could add a second 8800GTS for SLi.

Hope that helps some. ;)

Vegetable
01-06-07, 06:22 PM
Thanks a lot for the advice. My motherboard does not support SLI, so I'm limited to a single card. And here's the detailed information regarding my power supply: It's an ENERMAX EG465P-VE 24P ATX 1.3 460WATT. Does that change any of your advice?

Would you recommend that I get the GTX, then upgrade the Power Supply if I encounter problems? By the way, the GTS does support DX10, right? Basically, all of this is about preparing for Crysis. My computer plays all current games very satisfactorily. But I lust after Crysis and want to make sure I can enjoy the DX10. Hopefully I don't need a whole new system.

hirantha
01-06-07, 07:03 PM
460 should do it eventhough 520 is what they recommend.. just dont connect too many hard drives and CD ROM drives :D

Xion X2
01-06-07, 07:06 PM
And here's the detailed information regarding my power supply: It's an ENERMAX EG465P-VE 24P ATX 1.3 460WATT. Does that change any of your advice?

Nope, need to know the 12v rail(s) and amperage on each one of them.


Would you recommend that I get the GTX, then upgrade the Power Supply if I encounter problems?

Yes, but check the specs on your PSU first. They're bare minimum for what the requirements are to run a single GTX as far as wattage is concerned.

By the way, the GTS does support DX10, right?

Yes.

Basically, all of this is about preparing for Crysis. My computer plays all current games very satisfactorily. But I lust after Crysis and want to make sure I can enjoy the DX10. Hopefully I don't need a whole new system.

If I were you I'd go 8800GTX or nothing at all. A GTS isn't going to be a huge leap from your 1900XTX.

Maverickman
01-06-07, 07:46 PM
I don't think your power supply will be a major problem for an 8800 GTX. However, your CPU will be a significant bottleneck. A Pentium 4 just doesn't have enough horsepower to push the 8800 GTX. Even a Core 2 Extreme X6800 is not enough to max the card. You'll get better performance with the 8800 GTX vs. your X1900 XTX, but the difference will not be as great as if you had a Core2 Duo CPU. I'd get a new system before putting an 8800 GTX. You'll just be throwing money down the drain.

Xion X2
01-06-07, 07:57 PM
^ He has a point. If you're going to go with a new videocard, you may as well overhaul the rest of your system. The card you have now is already plenty for that processor to handle.

Redeemed
01-06-07, 08:21 PM
Nope, need to know the 12v rail(s) and amperage on each one of them.




Yes, but check the specs on your PSU first. They're bare minimum for what the requirements are to run a single GTX as far as wattage is concerned.



Yes.



If I were you I'd go 8800GTX or nothing at all. A GTS isn't going to be a huge leap from your 1900XTX.

I'd beg to differ Xion. In most cases the GTS isn't really far behind the 7950GX2, and in a lot of cases the GTS will outperform the GX2. So it'd be quite a bit faster than the X1900XTX.

http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/bfg8800gts/6.html

http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/bfg8800gts/8.html

http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/article.php?cat=grfx&id=474&pagenumber=4

http://www.gamepyre.com/reviewsd.html?aid=783&p=10

If you're system is well rounded, and your CPU is fast enough- the 8800GTS will outperform even the X1950XTX. In some cases, the 8800GTS alone can come close to the 7950GX2 SLi in terms of performance.

Yes, the 8800GTS will have enough umph for Crysis. You might not be able to crank everything all the way up at super high resolutions (even a single 8800GTX couldn't handle that)- but you also have to remember that DX10 should also allow for a performance boost. Thus meaning the 8800GTS should appear even faster than it already is when using DX10 based games.

With your PSU I'd opt to go with a single 8800GTS. Why? Cause if you have the cash to go with a GTX you have the cash to instead get a better psu and a GTS. Then, get an SLi capable mobo and a second GTS down the road. That'll chew through anything you throw at it for some time to come- guaranteed.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Category=38&N=2010380048+1069609641+106791921+1067924921&Submit=ENE&SubCategory=48

The average price for the GTX is still about $600.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Category=38&N=2010380048+1069609641+106791921+1067924922&Submit=ENE&SubCategory=48

Where as the average price for the GTS is about $450. And as you can see from the reviews it is a beast of a card and offers IQ no other card (except for the 8800GTX) can match.

So this is what I'd recommend. By going with the 8800GTS you save about $150. (600 - 450 = 150) So, put that $150 towards a better power supply. Here is a list of some decent PSU's within that price range:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817153039

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817153035

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817151028

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817256009

^^^And every one of those PSU's could run dual 8800GTSs just fine. Then later, if need be, you can purchase a good SLi mobo and a second 8800GTS.

Look, if you get the GTX you'd have better performance- sure. But you'd also run the risk of damaging components due to your PSU. If you go with the GTS you still get top-notch performance while also being able to get a high quality PSU at the same time.

Just remember, if you wind up getting the GTX and your current PSU isn't up to the task- it could wipe out most if not all of your computer. I'm not trying to scare or intimidate, but I want you to think long and hard about this. Imagine if you plug in that brand new 8800GTX, fire it up and start running through 3DMark03... no problem. 3DMark05, still no problem- and the performance is like nothing you'd ever seen and same for the IQ. You're totally stoked and are all hyped about your new card and how worth it the investment was. And then you fire up 3DMark06 or your favorite game and max all the IQ. You go to play it, and five minutes into the game your PC instantly shuts down, and wont turn back on no matter what. You can figure out the rest from there.

If it were me, I wouldn't risk it. You do have a chance that your PSU could handle the GTX just fine- but you also have a chance (a better chance, might I add) that it wont be enough for the GTX. I wouldn't risk it. RMA's are nice, but inconvenient. And you'd still have to be out yet another $150+ for the new PSU eitherway.

Just think about the options and potential outcomes for each choice. You would be safest going with the GTS and a new PSU right now. And I will guarantee that the GTS will not disappoint you- I have two of them myself. ;)

Think about it bud, think about it.

Redeemed
01-06-07, 08:23 PM
^ He has a point. If you're going to go with a new videocard, you may as well overhaul the rest of your system. The card you have now is already plenty for that processor to handle.

I agree. But we must also consider any budget limitations the OP might have. If he can afford a new rig, swell. If not, then we have to consider other alternatives to recommend. I think my advice in my previous post would still be the best option. Especially if his current mobo is 775 anyway.

But yeah, I agree that if you get any 8800 series card, you will need a faster processor.

Tho Jo Smale
01-06-07, 09:12 PM
I'd beg to differ Xion. In most cases the GTS isn't really far behind the 7950GX2, and in a lot of cases the GTS will outperform the GX2. So it'd be quite a bit faster than the X1900XTX.



Actually,

I just upgraded from a 7950gx2 to an 8800GTX, popped the lid on my opteron, overclocked it to 2.7ghz, and the 8800GTX (besides doing AA and HDR concurrently) is at most 10% faster than the GX2 clocked at 600/750 which was daily usage.


Until we see some DX10 games, or some real drivers for the 8800 series, we won't feel the effects of any 8 series cards.

GTS<7950<GTX in DX9

JC

Xion X2
01-06-07, 10:06 PM
I'm not seeing the "huge leap" you are, Redeemed. I'll agree there's a significant difference there and the GTS is definitely the better card, but when we're talking about upgrading from a 1900XTX, the 8800GTS is just not a huge jump.

Look at the FEAR benches. At 1600x1200 (on all these):

8800GTS: 58
1900XTX: 53
http://www.gamepyre.com/reviewsd.html?aid=783&p=10

8800GTS: 56
1900XTX: 48
http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/article.php?cat=grfx&id=474&pagenumber=6


And Splinter Cell 3:

8800GTS: 70
1900XTX: 67
http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/bfg8800gts/9.html


And Prey:

8800GTS: 93
1900XTX: 79
http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/bfg8800gts/8.html


And Call of Duty 2:

1900XTX: 50
8800GTS: 46
http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/bfg8800gts/6.html


And also, look here:

http://www.pcper.com/images/reviews/335/fear-1600-bar.gif
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=335&type=expert&pid=6

Notice that at 1600x1200 the GTS only gets 10 more FPS on average than the 7900GTX (which is basically identical in performance to the 1900XTX), while the 8800GTX gets 35 more. That pretty much sums up my whole point. His best option, if he really wants to feel like he's made a major upgrade (and for the 450$ he'd pay for the GTS and the money he's going to lose selling his 1900, I'm sure this is important), then he'll go with a GTX instead of a GTS.

The GTS is a nice card, but it's just not a huge leap in performance like the 8800GTX is. 8800GTS SLI is nice, though.

The power-supply issue is another can of worms. Since it's an Enermax, it might be okay. But I'd be cautious. I'm sure at that wattage it's probably a single-rail, which is good, but it'd be nice to know how many amps it has on the 12v. The 1900XTX's are power hogs, though, so if his system has been running okay w/ that PSU it might continue to run okay with a GTX. He's hooked up to a UPS, which is a good idea.

Redeemed
01-06-07, 11:26 PM
Actually,
Until we see some DX10 games, or some real drivers for the 8800 series, we won't feel the effects of any 8 series cards.


Xion, I'd say that sums up my whole argument on the 8800GTS performance compared to previous generation graphics cards.

My main argument was in regards to his power supply. The safest route he could take would be the one I suggested. That way he has the performance for DX10 games (the 8800GTS will be leaps faster in DX10 than any previous generation card) while also having the powersupply for future upgrades. It is a win/win situation. Where as if he were to get the GTX it very well could be a lose/lose situation.

I'd hate to be in his shoes if he took your guys' advice and got the GTX now, only to fry most if not all of his system cause of the psu not being up to the task. And I'm sure he'd be pretty pissed at a lot of you for your recommendations. With out knowing the amps on the 12v rail(s) for his PSU nobody can make certain that his PSU is able to run a GTX along with everything else in his rig. But we can guarantee that it'd run a GTS. But, by going with a GTS he'd be saving atleast $150 that he could then put towards a better PSU. How is that at all a bad thing? All in all it'd be just as much an overall upgrade (if not overall better) than just getting the GTX.


Xion, I agree 100% with what you are saying in regards to the GTS' performance. My whole argument is based upon his power supply. To me it just is not worth the risk- I wouldn't do it. You recall that talk we had prior to the G80 launch when I was asking about the power requirements? Remember how you convinced me to get that Silverstone Zeus 850? I took your advice I bought the new power supply. Sure, this OCZ GameXstream 700watt that I'm using now runs these tow GTSs just fine- but a newer rig is gonna' consume even more. So with that in mind, him getting any 8800 will also require him upgrading the rest of his system as well. Why not get the base, the foundation, the life blood of his new rig in place- the PSU- first? If he got the GTS now, in the end it would be a substantial upgrade. Remember, vegetable is concerned about his performance in Crysis. The 8800GTS will mop the floor with any previous generation graphics card in DX10. So therefore the 8800GTS meets every requirement vegetable has for a video card. Furthermore by getting the GTS vegetable can also invest in a solid PSU with the $$$ saved. By selling his XTX he could even invest in an even better PSU or maybe a new mobo/processor as he's already using DDR2 ram.

See what I'm saying? From the $$$ side of things, in the end the GTS is the best route. With the $150+ saved by getting the GTS that'd get him a good PSU. Then, with the $$$ he got from the XTX (what, $250-$300) that could get him a new SLi mobo ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131032 ). Let's say he managed $250 for his XTX. Now he has about $150 that he can then put towards a Core2. A mere $75 more would land him an E6400: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819115004.

Does that make sense at all? Or am I the only one understanding this? :p

Roadhog
01-06-07, 11:28 PM
you guys are comparing a card to one that doesnt even support dx10.. Come on now. The 8800GTS will be a good upgrade.

Redeemed
01-06-07, 11:34 PM
you guys are comparing a card to one that doesnt even support dx10.. Come on now. The 8800GTS will be a good upgrade.

That's what my logic was also. Well, part of my logic anyways.

Xion X2
01-07-07, 03:03 AM
The bottom line is that most of the games out right now and in the immediate future aren't DX10. They'll be DX9. The only DX10 games on the horizon are Alan Wake, Crysis, and UT2007 which they keep delaying to no end.

And since that's the case, I think the better choice would be a card that's going to be a significant upgrade for DX9 titles which, again, the GTS isn't over the 1900XT. That may change with better drivers. It seems odd to me that the GTS can't crank out better performance than that when it has 96 unified shaders, but so far the #'s aren't showing much of anything.

But he really needs a system overhaul if he wants to see a significant overall performance increase from what he has now. A 3.6gHz Pentium 4 just isn't strong enough to run an 8800GTX.

Your scenario that you're postulating isn't a bad one; the problem I have with it is that until he gets that second GTS he's going to see minimal difference in performance from what he has now. There are really just too many unknown variables to suggest anything reasonable right now. We have no idea how much money this individual is willing to spend. I would suggest at the minimum a good AMD 939 board (Asus A8N5X), a good single-core AMD64(4000+), a good PSU and an 8800GTX which would run around 775$. C2D would be better but then you're talking double the money for the processor and new memory whereas he could keep what he has now and drop it in the AMD 939.

I don't know how much money the topic starter is willing to spend, but if it isn't at least this much then I wouldn't even worry about upgrading.

Redeemed
01-07-07, 06:12 AM
The bottom line is that most of the games out right now and in the immediate future aren't DX10. They'll be DX9. The only DX10 games on the horizon are Alan Wake, Crysis, and UT2007 which they keep delaying to no end.

And since that's the case, I think the better choice would be a card that's going to be a significant upgrade for DX9 titles which, again, the GTS isn't over the 1900XT. That may change with better drivers. It seems odd to me that the GTS can't crank out better performance than that when it has 96 unified shaders, but so far the #'s aren't showing much of anything.

But he really needs a system overhaul if he wants to see a significant overall performance increase from what he has now. A 3.6gHz Pentium 4 just isn't strong enough to run an 8800GTX.

Your scenario that you're postulating isn't a bad one; the problem I have with it is that until he gets that second GTS he's going to see minimal difference in performance from what he has now. There are really just too many unknown variables to suggest anything reasonable right now. We have no idea how much money this individual is willing to spend. I would suggest at the minimum a good AMD 939 board (Asus A8N5X), a good single-core AMD64(4000+), a good PSU and an 8800GTX which would run around 775$. C2D would be better but then you're talking double the money for the processor and new memory whereas he could keep what he has now and drop it in the AMD 939.

I don't know how much money the topic starter is willing to spend, but if it isn't at least this much then I wouldn't even worry about upgrading.

Um, Xion, he's running DDR2 ram currently. Going with a s939 setup would cost more money. The C2D would be cheaper than the 939 option simpy cause he could use his current ram with the C2D.

But I agree, untill we know more we can't accurately recommend anything.

Vegetable
01-07-07, 08:13 AM
Hi, Original Poster here. Wow, what a great forum! (I'm new here). Thanks so much for all the insightful comments!

First, let me ask this: For someone like me who loves computer games but is not technically inclined (I think opening my box to replace a video card is scary, but I've done it), is it practical to upgrade my power supply? Could a well-trained monkey swap out a PSU? (If not, then I doubt I could do it). And replacing a motherboard sounds like it would require even more expertise. Am I right? If you really need to know what you're doing to make these upgrades, are there services I could hire to do it for me?

I'm dismayed to hear that I may need to upgrade my system less than 2 years after buying a near top-of-the-line Alienware. I don't want to spend any money I don't have to. Presently, my system plays everything very well (with the possible exception of Splinter Cell Double Agent, in which I need to turn down settings for acceptable frame rates). I play Battlefield 2142 and most other games at max settings on a large monitor.

What I'm gathering from your comments is that I may be able to safely make one final upgrade before I will need to buy a whole new system: a bigger PSU and the 8800 GTS. I can wait until Crysis comes out before making that upgrade. So the question for me is whether a klutz like me is capable of installing a new PSU.

The consensus is that my P4 3.6 is enough muscle to power the GTS, right? If not, I guess I'll wait until there are a few good DX10 games out, then buy a new system.

Thanks again for all the help! Sure beats Alienware's tech support!

grimreefer
01-07-07, 11:38 AM
just wait for a card thats better than the 8800gts to come out, cause going from x1900xtx to 8800gts isnt that big of an upgrade.

CaptNKILL
01-07-07, 12:11 PM
Honestly, I'd stay with what you have for now.

Q
01-07-07, 12:24 PM
Honestly, I'd stay with what you have for now.

Exactly.

The only noticable upgrade would be a 8800GTX (I did the upgrade and noticed a HUGE difference) but it would require a new PSU.

Regardless of what people say, you don't have to upgrade the CPU every time you upgrade your graphics card. Many times you'll barely notice the difference in games with a new CPU upgrade while you almost ALWAYS notice a GPU upgrade.

SlieTheSecond
01-07-07, 01:49 PM
Exactly.

The only noticable upgrade would be a 8800GTX (I did the upgrade and noticed a HUGE difference) but it would require a new PSU.

Regardless of what people say, you don't have to upgrade the CPU every time you upgrade your graphics card. Many times you'll barely notice the difference in games with a new CPU upgrade while you almost ALWAYS notice a GPU upgrade.

I'm sure that was in regards to take advantage of the video card.
A GTX will perform better on a C2D than his P4

Q
01-07-07, 02:05 PM
I'm sure that was in regards to take advantage of the video card.
A GTX will perform better on a C2D than his P4

Of course it will perform better on a C2D than a P4. I'm talking about noticable differences.

The jump from a x1900xtx to an 8800GTX using a P4 will be BIGGER than the jump from a P4 to a C2D with an x1900xtx or 8800GTX. That gets a bit wordy and confusing, but my point is that a graphics card upgrade will always give you the biggest difference in games over a CPU upgrade. I know you won't get the most out of the graphics card, but very few people do. I get better performance with a Voodoo 3 now with my 4800x2 that I did with my K6-2 400 but I'd still rather have my 8800GTX. A bit extreme of an example, but I hope it sheds some light on my point.

Bman212121
01-07-07, 02:49 PM
The bottom line is that most of the games out right now and in the immediate future aren't DX10. They'll be DX9. The only DX10 games on the horizon are Alan Wake, Crysis, and UT2007 which they keep delaying to no end.

And since that's the case, I think the better choice would be a card that's going to be a significant upgrade for DX9 titles which, again, the GTS isn't over the 1900XT. That may change with better drivers. It seems odd to me that the GTS can't crank out better performance than that when it has 96 unified shaders, but so far the #'s aren't showing much of anything.

But he really needs a system overhaul if he wants to see a significant overall performance increase from what he has now. A 3.6gHz Pentium 4 just isn't strong enough to run an 8800GTX.

Your scenario that you're postulating isn't a bad one; the problem I have with it is that until he gets that second GTS he's going to see minimal difference in performance from what he has now. There are really just too many unknown variables to suggest anything reasonable right now. We have no idea how much money this individual is willing to spend. I would suggest at the minimum a good AMD 939 board (Asus A8N5X), a good single-core AMD64(4000+), a good PSU and an 8800GTX which would run around 775$. C2D would be better but then you're talking double the money for the processor and new memory whereas he could keep what he has now and drop it in the AMD 939.

I don't know how much money the topic starter is willing to spend, but if it isn't at least this much then I wouldn't even worry about upgrading.

If I were going to drop money, I really wouldn't bother with a midstep like that, but it is a nice alternative. However, I'm hoping that if the OP is considering a $500+ gfx card, he'll be able to spend a little extra. All he would need is a C2D E6400 and a board, and the difference in performance would be phenominal. I'm not sure if his PSU can run 1 card, and I would probably consider upgrading it. The best thing to do is just try it first, and if it doesn't work, upgrade it then.

Other than that, I agree with Xion 100%. If your going to get an 8800 you really should go for the GTX. It would be nice to know what resolution you are using, as that would help tell us what kind of bottleneck you'll have. I can max out every game I own at 1920 x 1200 and even with AA and AF on still sit on the frame cap, or have at least 50 - 60 fps. If you are only planning on gaming at 12 x 10 then your 1900XTX might be fine since you probably already have really high frames.

Q
01-07-07, 02:55 PM
If I were going to drop money, I really wouldn't bother with a midstep like that, but it is a nice alternative. However, I'm hoping that if the OP is considering a $500+ gfx card, he'll be able to spend a little extra. All he would need is a C2D E6400 and a board, and the difference in performance would be phenominal. I'm not sure if his PSU can run 1 card, and I would probably consider upgrading it. The best thing to do is just try it first, and if it doesn't work, upgrade it then.


Normally I would agree with you on this. However, if you can run an x1900xtx you can run a 8800GTX since they both draw about the same amount of power under load.

Redeemed
01-07-07, 03:03 PM
Of course it will perform better on a C2D than a P4. I'm talking about noticable differences.

The jump from a x1900xtx to an 8800GTX using a P4 will be BIGGER than the jump from a P4 to a C2D with an x1900xtx or 8800GTX. That gets a bit wordy and confusing, but my point is that a graphics card upgrade will always give you the biggest difference in games over a CPU upgrade. I know you won't get the most out of the graphics card, but very few people do. I get better performance with a Voodoo 3 now with my 4800x2 that I did with my K6-2 400 but I'd still rather have my 8800GTX. A bit extreme of an example, but I hope it sheds some light on my point.

Technically, and literally, you're wrong.

I'm running a s754 3400. Before I got these two 8800GTSs, I had two 7600GTs. That was practically a perfect balance of GPU:CPU horsepower it seemed. Well, when I plugged both GTSs in I didn't really notice a huge boost in framerate. What I did notice was the substantial increase in overall image quality, and the ability to use 16xAA without any substantial drop in framerates. Other than that, there was virtually [b]no[/i] fps boost that was noticable in my gameplay.

Now, if I went out and dropped an E6600 oc'd to 3.6GHz, I'd suddenly get a mammoth boost in framerates.

The plain truth is that even with the fastest of the Core2s (including OC), the 8800 series is still bottlenecked by the CPU. So just imagine how much more of a botteneck Vegetable's P4 would be.

Yeah, if you get any 8800 series, you need a beast of a CPU. Why didn't I upgrade the mobo/CPU/RAM in my rig first then? Cuase I was afraid that shortly after the launch of G80 the prices would skyrocket for the 8800GTS. As it turns out that wasn't the case. If I could turn back time knowing what I know now, I'd have upgraded to an E6600/ASUS Striker, and 2GB of some Dominator ram instead. And I'd then be saving up for dual GTX's instead of now owning these two GTSs. :p

Hindsight- I don't know whether to love or hate it. :lol: