View Full Version : what is it? 4 dawn fairys done by nv35?
heedory
03-07-03, 09:46 AM
check it out..
wrning..all japanese
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2003/0307/kaigai17.jpg
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2003/0307/kaigai01.htm
SurfMonkey
03-07-03, 10:57 AM
It was a new dawn demo running on the NV35, which nv demonstrated at the GDC.
If they're already demoing it then it can't be more than a few months from completion.
Mind you are four fairies supposed to make us think it is four times as fast?? :rolleyes:
Philibob
03-07-03, 11:01 AM
http://www6.tomshardware.com/business/20030307/gdc_2003-04.html
There's a picture a bit down with a small description above it (and a small caption below - "Dawn And Her Sisters" demo)
surfhurleydude
03-07-03, 11:15 AM
SurfMonkey, yeah, it probably is meant to get people to think its 4 times as fast...
In reality, it won't be, but ****, it obviously seems like it will be a hell of a lot faster.
nVidia sure is smart :)
There's no where near 4x the work done for those 4 Dawns. More like 2x!
That's because they're certainly rendered front-to-back, and two of them nearly fully covers the two others.
So, the demo probably gets about 2.5x the work for rendering Dawn ( I'm considering VS isn't the bottleneck here, BTW - it would surprise me if it was )
Also, there's not only Dawn on the screen. The other parts of the scene, although they don't use shaders as complex, still are quite complex.
So I'd guess the overall scene is only 2x more complex.
"What?! The NV35 is truly 2 times faster than a NV30?!"
No.
The drivers & silicon they had to demo Dawn around November are certainly slower than the drivers we've got right now.
So, it's more like 2x faster than A01 silicon on 41.34 drivers
And I doubt that's more than 40-50% faster than the NV30 that got reviewed some time ago...
And remember nVidia probably made sure to optimize the shader since the last time the original time they shown the Dawn demo.
Eh, I guess I'll stop right there... You get the idea! :)
Uttar
Gotta love Nvidia's PR :rolleyes:
surfhurleydude
03-07-03, 05:01 PM
Uttar, you sound like Doomtrooper trying to blast nVidia. They're still being rendered even if something is in front of them, as you can see through the wings of Dawns on the other Dawns. Not to mention, if there's any AA added to this scene, it would definitely be more than simply 40-50% faster.
SurfMonkey
03-07-03, 05:23 PM
Actually I'm wondering now whether the NV35 supports rendering to multiple targets. I don't recall whether the NV30 does in which case rendering to four targets is a marginal step in the right direction...
tazdevl
03-07-03, 05:39 PM
LOL any time Uttar opens his mouth when it comes to nVIDIA my BS meter goes off. I'd love to see him post one objective thing about nVIDIA.
Richthofen
03-07-03, 05:43 PM
I think NV35 is not far away.
Now the 100.000 GF FX Ultra cards number makes sense.
You wouldn't want to produce more units for a product as you may need.
But still i am wondering a bit.
I was sure that NV35 would not be that far away and that the life cycle of the GF FX (NV30) would be short because manufacturing problems have no impact concerning timeframe on designing a refresh part.
But what i am wonderning is could it be that some parts of NV30 are disabled because of the problems?
We heard that it is not 4*1 and not 8*1 and still those 125 Mio transistor number seems to be a littlebit to high.
Maybe some parts are disabled and for NV35 they will have worked out those things.
OICAspork
03-07-03, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by tazdevl
LOL any time Uttar opens his mouth when it comes to nVIDIA my BS meter goes off. I'd love to see him post one objective thing about nVIDIA.
LOL, you might have over a hundred posts... but I doubt you've been browsing these forums very long... :p You do realize, that prior to the GFFX's release, Uttar was the BIGGEST NVidia supporter on the site, who, despite early reviews, still planned on getting the GFFX... the idea that he is anti-NVidia... cracks me up. I think this is definitely a case of NV35 demonstrating multiple render targets... that is... rendering one thing and replicating it in several places in the screen. Notice that all the 'Dawns' are absolutely identical, not only in pose, but in coloration... You really think they are her 'sisters' nah, they are her clones. The rendering power needed to do this isn't too much greater than to do one...
Another thing you'll notice... is that they still dance on a prerendered single-texture background ( :) basically the same thing as the 'sky-box' they bitched about in 3DMark03 ). Take another look at that ATI chimp demo... and marvel at the fact that there is a hell of a lot being rendered than just the chimp and butterflies.
*edit* Whoops, it looks like I was mistaken, the branch is blocking the feet of some of the dawns, so that is a real 3d object. However, the background is a single texture.
sebazve
03-08-03, 02:13 AM
ok they are showing the nv35 but where the **** is the nv30 lol?
I'm still seriously considering a GFFX Regular, if I could get my hands on one...
Otherwise, I guess I'll take a NV31, since it haves all the features and that's what I mostly need.
Anyway, sorry if I was looking like I wanted to bash nVidia. I wasn't. And I still consider myself biased *towards* nVidia :P If I'd get the opportunity to review a NV30, I guarantee I'll make it look fifty times better than a R300, and without any cheating and lies! Eh, that would be a fun challenge! :)
Amusingly, I'm quite impressed by that PR strategy. They're rendering 2 times more, and everyone thinks it's 4 times more. Good job on the demo team for that, too, since they had to make sure a minimum of the other two dawns was visible :) It's good marketing work, IMO.
Anyway, I'm sure that nVidia pretty much hinting at May-June avaibility must be nice for the people waiting for the card. But since that's what I supposed for some time, it just doesn't do as much of an effect on me :)
I still look foward to see what's the NV35, but I doubt I'll be buying one since I'll have upgraded shortly before... Ah well!
BTW, this demo ain't using MRT. If you look closely, the lighting isn't exactly the same.
Uttar
Originally posted by Uttar
I'm still seriously considering a GFFX Regular, if I could get my hands on one...
Otherwise, I guess I'll take a NV31, since it haves all the features and that's what I mostly need.
shortly before... Ah well!
BTW, this demo ain't using MRT. If you look closely, the lighting isn't exactly the same.
Uttar
What is MRT ?
M? Real time
Don't worry it's not a shame to buy one especially the not noisy one .for developement or cheap 3dpro it's a good GC!
but I still have a lot of time before upgrading, except if a breakthrough game is realeased :D but i'm seeing nothing coming very exciting :/
Originally posted by pastor
What is MRT ?
Multiple Render Target
The idea is to render something once, and put it at several spots in the screen AFAIK.
Uttar
Originally posted by Uttar
Multiple Render Target
The idea is to render something once, and put it at several spots in the screen AFAIK.
Uttar
oh i see! quite like the wonderfull 80's videos effect ;)
GlowStick
03-08-03, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by pastor
oh i see! quite like the wonderfull 80's videos effect ;)
80's video effect = OWN
havnet you seen Knight Rider?
OICAspork
03-08-03, 04:16 PM
XD If they got it to run on that... cripled piece of silicon... I'd damn well expect them to be able to render 4 of them on their refresh high end part. Also, did anyone notice they said that they were running the dawn and her sisters demo "on production silicon." Last I heard, the only tape out for NV35 was back in January... that sort of bothers me. Great, they will be getting it out soon, but if they are going into production on a tape out from January... I wonder how many things they really had time to implement into the NV35 beyond what NV30 contains. Furthermore, I've always thought it was silly to suggest that NVidia would go to 8 "True pipes". As I understand it, that would be funadmentally redesigning the architecture... it is a 4 pipe solution, and I doubt that will change in the NV35... though I expect there to be a lot of pipeline optimizations... I just can't see it changing architecturally from a 4x2 to an 8x1 *poof* like that in a refresh product.
Its not a classic 4x2, and its not an 8x1 either. It's a hybrid. Which basically means it has superior performance in multitexturing, and does full 8 pixels per clock, in non texturing operations (Z, stencil, PS)
It's actually quite clever when you think about it. Provided the software you're running doesn't do loads of single texture multipass, which would be very bad.
Originally posted by Uttar
They're rendering 2 times more, and everyone thinks it's 4 times more. Good job on the demo team for that, too, since they had to make sure a minimum of the other two dawns was visible :) It's good marketing work, IMO.
i don't see how you can call that "good", effective possibly but not rightly good. also, have to wonder how hard it would be for ati to make four chimps run good; a i also curious as to when this is all going to slow down a little bit. :angel2:
IF you convert that report from japanese it has the following quote in.
The Huang person " with efficiency of 2 times that GeForce FX 5800, while being close, is announced concerning this next generation GPU. Already the product edition silicon is moving ", it explained.
SurfMonkey
03-09-03, 06:20 AM
Even if the NV35 was twice as fast as the NV30, which it isn't going to be...???, then the PS2.0 performance would still be below that of the R300, never mind the R350.
How do you know the PS2.0 performance on an unreleased, un-reviewed, un bench'd card is going to be poor?
nvidia aren't stupid you know. They most likely have bench's of R300's comparing every aspect of its performance to their own cards. Given the poor performance of the PS2.0 shaders I fully expect them to give it some attention at least.
Originally posted by tazdevl
LOL any time Uttar opens his mouth when it comes to nVIDIA my BS meter goes off. I'd love to see him post one objective thing about nVIDIA.
You obviously don't know Uttar then.
Nebuchadnezzar
03-09-03, 09:22 AM
Originally posted by tazdevl
LOL any time Uttar opens his mouth when it comes to nVIDIA my BS meter goes off. I'd love to see him post one objective thing about nVIDIA.
Agree with Kiler, you're a big idiot.
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