Projection vs LCD

[OWA]

I've been reading various reviews where TVs using LCoS/DLP systems have better PQ than a LCD TV. The one thing that bothers me though is that all the projection systems in the stores seem kind of dim compared to a LCD. I'm currently using a fairly cheap LCD monitor (the Westinghouse LVM-37W1) but one thing it does have going for it is that it's very bright. Are the projection TVs just not adjusted correctly in the stores or is that just one of the advantages of a LCD TV? My black levels suffer on the Westy but I'm not sure how well I'd adjust to a display that isn't nearly as bright. So, I guess what I'm asking is if the projection TVs can get close to same brightness or if that's just a tradeoff you have to make to get a better contrast (better black levels)?

So, can someone that has gone from a LCD TV/monitor to a projection TV (or has owned both) compare the two.

One of the projection TVs I'm considering is the one mentioned in this thread:

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=84530

I'm also considering the less expensive Sony KDS-60A2000.

On the LCD side, the two I'm looking at are the newish 52" Sony LCD or the Sharp 52" LCD. I'd probably wait a bit for the price to drop a bit on the Sony 52" LCD though.

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Sharp-AQUOS-52-LCD-HDTV-LC-52D62U/sem/rpsm/oid/161574/catOid/-12869/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

Here is the Sony 52" LCD I'm considering: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8188775&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat95100050006&id=1164156736657

So, that's another tradeoff, possibly 52" (LCD TV) versus 60"+ with projection.

Any thoughts on this?

[evilchris]

The LCD is what isn't adjusted correctly. LCD will have higher overall brightness than an RPTV, but at what cost? Crushed blacks, overblown colors, they are just a mess.

Do you watch TV in your house with the same lighting as a major electronics retailer? You aren't supposed to watch TV with 4,000 watts of lighting on. If your room is full of skylights that can't be blocked or whatever then an RPTV probably won't work for you. You can crank them up too, but at the expense of PQ. My brightness is on 25/100.

If you want pristine, accurate PQ you will * have * to adjust to a much lower brightness. Even with LCD's, I calibrate them all the way down to where they should be.

[superklye]

On my Westy LTV-32w6, I've got the brightness at 20/50 and the backlight is down around 40/50 because the black crush was just terrible otherwise, and everything looked so washed out.

Now, my black levels are the exact same color as the top/side bars and I can see no distortion/compression at all. It's perfect as far as I'm concerned.

[Marvel_us]

I'd say go with the RPTV. Generally you don't really want an LCD over 40".

Evilchris's explanation sounds reasonable. I mean personally I don't even have the lights on when I'm watching tv so brightness shouldn't be a problem.

[Tygerwoody]

Another vote for RPTV

LCD's look GREAT for HD content, but SD content looks like trash. If it wasnt for this issue I would have bought an LCD instead of RPTV

[superklye]

You know, I agreed with you on SD content all looking like crap for the most part, but on a whim tonight, I popped in nine inch nails live: and all that could have been and my God.

The picture is stunning.

Especially from about 10 feet back...it's so crisp and clear...a large part of that is thanks to Trent being such a wh0re when it comes to the best in audio/visual quality and no doubt some help from the HD-A2's awesome upconversion.

But still...wow. If only the rest of my SD content looked like this. :o

[betterdan]

By SD content I believe he is referring to SD television. Sd TV looked pretty craptacular on my old CRT projection set and I wasn't expecting much out of our new set but I'll be damned Mitsubishi actually made the SD tv channels look pretty decent. Well I guess the newer technology had something to do with it also as the old set was from 2000 or 2001. ;)
DVDs always looked good on both sets.

[Tygerwoody]

You know, I agreed with you on SD content all looking like crap for the most part, but on a whim tonight, I popped in nine inch nails live: and all that could have been and my God.

The picture is stunning.

Especially from about 10 feet back...it's so crisp and clear...a large part of that is thanks to Trent being such a wh0re when it comes to the best in audio/visual quality and no doubt some help from the HD-A2's awesome upconversion.

But still...wow. If only the rest of my SD content looked like this. :o
are you talking about DVD? DVD should look just fine on an LCD. SD Television was what i was talking about.

[superklye]

are you talking about DVD? DVD should look just fine on an LCD. SD Television was what i was talking about.
Ohhhh...okay....I thought you meant ALL SD content.

[buffbiff21]

Honestly for my money LCD is better.

CRT actually hurt my eyes, because i pay attention to their 60 hz refresh rate and it just pisses me off.

like, for example, in order to notice this, move your eyes back and forth quickly when the CRTtv is in front of you. youll notice each individual frame, because your eyes move faster than the tubes emit heat.

With LCD and Plasma, I notice no light refreshing going on. (i do notice ghosting and etc, just not the light images)

[evilchris]

Honestly for my money LCD is better.

CRT actually hurt my eyes, because i pay attention to their 60 hz refresh rate and it just pisses me off.

like, for example, in order to notice this, move your eyes back and forth quickly when the CRTtv is in front of you. youll notice each individual frame, because your eyes move faster than the tubes emit heat.

With LCD and Plasma, I notice no light refreshing going on. (i do notice ghosting and etc, just not the light images)

wtf, this post is wrong on so many levels I'm just not going to bother. Not to mention this is a Projection vs LCD thread, not CRT vs LCD...

[Tygerwoody]

Ohhhh...okay....I thought you meant ALL SD content.
Yea, I know what you mean by DVD's. I was surprised how good DVD's look on HDTV televisions.

What resolution are DVD's btw?

[Gorion]

480p I believe

[MustangSVT]

dvd's are 720x480 and they're anamorphic (most of them) which means they look much better than standard SD.

Anyway, go with rear projection. I've got a JVC LCoS 52" RPTV and it freaking owns. Either get like that Sony 60A2000 or you may want to consider the JVC 61FN97, it's like $2500 nowadays and it's pretty kick ass.

[buffbiff21]

wtf, this post is wrong on so many levels I'm just not going to bother. Not to mention this is a Projection vs LCD thread, not CRT vs LCD...

oh...

whoops.

i swear i thought it said crt vs lcd.

and whats wrong about what i said?

[MustangSVT]

Are you referring to old tubes? I have a CRT HDTV upstairs (Sony 36" WEGA) and I have LCD monitor and all that and I don't notice any flicker on my TV or whatever you're talking about. Maybe on a PC monitor with 60Hz, but not on a TV.

[OWA]

Oh well, looks like I won't have a new set by the Superbowl (my original idea). I couldn't decide on what to get although I guess I'll go with a projection set.

Are projection TVs loud (e.g. fan noise or some other sort of noise)? My current LCD monitor (Westy 37") makes a really annoying buzzing noise that I've noticed most other LCDs/Plasmas don't make. I think I read that it's b/c it's using a cheap power supply or something. Anyway, in the stores I haven't really noticed any noises with the projection TVs but since the stores are so noisy to begin with, it could just be masked.

[evilchris]

I only hear mine when I turn it off. The fan stays on a minute or so to cool the lamp.

[Hordsak]

Dont forget, replacing a 400 dollar bulb once every year or 2, and crappy viewing angles. IMHO, thats enough of a reason to go LCD.

[superklye]

Except you have to worry about crappy SDTV picture, possibility of dead pixels and ghosting like no one's business.

[MustangSVT]

My 3 year warranty where I bought mine from includes bulb replacement. And viewing angles are definetely not bad at all. LCoS has improved much over the old CRT projection sets. I have had no issues so far with viewing angles. If you decide to sit at a huge angle to the TV, that's your own problem.

And also there's much more at play here. Let's see, get a 55-60" 1080p set and have amazing movie/game/so on experience, or get a measly 37" set? It makes a huge difference. Hell I find that a 61" set makes quite a big difference compared to my 52" set, and going from my CRT HDTV 36" set (which is by the way very good at everything including SD) to my 52" set is a huge difference as well. It's a whole new experience.

[betterdan]

My warranty covers the bulb in my DLP set also and the viewing angle is just fine.
OWA the fan noise is not even noticable until you shut down the set and then it's a soft fan noise that lasts for about a minute like evilchris said.

[OWA]

Thanks for the info on the noise guys. That doesn't sound bad at all.

[evilchris]

Dont forget, replacing a 400 dollar bulb once every year or 2, and crappy viewing angles. IMHO, thats enough of a reason to go LCD.

Apparently you are clueless as to modern RPTV's. My 70" Sony XBR2 SXRD has a 165 degree viewing angle, a $200 bulb that will last 2 years, and VASTLY SUPERIOR PQ to any LCD. Not to mention it came with a spare bulb in the box. IMHO, thats enough of a reason to go RPTV.

Additionally, the ONLY WEARABLE PART in an LCoS set is the bulb. Easily changeable. LCD's are throw away items when they wear out.

[superklye]

I cannot wait to get the 60" SXRD XBR this summer when I get into my new place. I really want the 70", but I can't justify the additional $2300 for 10 more inches. :o