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Zelda_fan
02-02-07, 12:29 PM
Seems to be the popular thing to do these days.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/760/760643p1.html

"They're talking nonsense," he said of Nintendo assertion that videogame graphics have reached a saturation point. "It's ridiculous sot say that graphics don't matter. That's like saying 'The quality of my TV screen doesn't matter.' Oh really? So then in that case, you can go watch 24 in black-and-white on a seven-inch screen. It's nonsense to say graphics don't matter. I think we can do a lot better, but I think we'd like to see graphics encompassing the gameplay."

I don't blame them. nVidia makes their bacon on "better graphics" so I really don't blame them for attacking Nintendo's highly successful idea. But if you look at which company it turning the biggest profit, I think you'll see who is right :D.

saturnotaku
02-02-07, 12:34 PM
It's all sour grapes. NVIDIA got screwed on the Xbox, and they're getting screwed on the PS3.

thor1182
02-02-07, 12:37 PM
I think actually nVidia is doing the screwing with the PS3. MS was getting screwed with the xbox becuase nVidia didn't want to lower their margins on the profit they made from their part of the xbox. Because Sony did an "OH SH*T" about realizing they needed a real GPU, they didn't have the time to do the R&D or licensing agreement not to have nVidia bend them over.

Marvel_us
02-02-07, 12:38 PM
It's all sour grapes. NVIDIA got screwed on the Xbox, and they're getting screwed on the PS3.

How are they getting screwed with the PS3?

Zelda_fan
02-02-07, 12:41 PM
How are they getting screwed with the PS3?

becasue nVidia makes the GPU in the highly unsuccessful PS3, and ATI/AMD makes the GPU in the highly successful XBOX360 and Nintendo Wii.

nVidia may own the desktop graphics market, but in 3rd part applications they are getting screwed.

Marvel_us
02-02-07, 12:44 PM
becasue nVidia makes the GPU in the highly unsuccessful PS3, and ATI/AMD makes the GPU in the highly successful XBOX360 and Nintendo Wii.

nVidia may own the desktop graphics market, but in 3rd part applications they are getting screwed.

Highly unsuccessful and it's not even a year old yet.....right...

Really that doesn't matter since the deal Sony made with Nvidia was to pay them upfront for the technology. It was different with Xbox since nvidia made money off of each one sold. Considering Nvidia probably didn't really have to break it's back to R&D RSX for PS3 it didn't cost them much to hand over the tech.

Namrok
02-02-07, 12:45 PM
becasue nVidia makes the GPU in the highly unsuccessful PS3, and ATI/AMD makes the GPU in the highly successful XBOX360 and Nintendo Wii.

nVidia may own the desktop graphics market, but in 3rd part applications they are getting screwed.

Almost every computer I see has ATI or Intel integrated graphics too. I mean, assuming they have integrated graphics. I've never seen a computer yet with nvidia integrated graphics. I'm sure the exist, but they sure aren't common.

Still, when I build a PC again, I've got my eye on the 8800 GTS

Zelda_fan
02-02-07, 12:46 PM
Highly unsuccessful and it's not even a year old yet.....right...

Really that doesn't matter since the deal Sony made with Nvidia was to pay them upfront for the technology. It was different with Xbox since nvidia made money off of each one sold. Considering Nvidia probably didn't really have to break it's back to R&D RSX for PS3 it didn't cost them much to hand over the tech.

The Wii is highly successful, and it's not a year old. I'm just judge Nintendo and Sony by the same standards. I guess we have to lower the bar when we're talking about Sony, right?

Mr. Hunt
02-02-07, 12:49 PM
Doesn't Nvidia get a percentage per 360 sale anyway? Thought I read that somewhere because of the whole backwards compatability problems or something.

Marvel_us
02-02-07, 12:50 PM
The Wii is highly successful, and it's not a year old. I'm just judge Nintendo and Sony by the same standards. I guess we have to lower the bar when we're talking about Sony, right?

Heh, according to Sony you shouldn't even mention the Wii in the same sentence as the PS3.

I just don't think Sony or Nvidia would start to fret over their sales in the first 2-3 months. I'd only see that happening if they knew they didn't have a real plan to help sales pick up.

OWA
02-02-07, 12:55 PM
The Wii is highly successful, and it's not a year old. I'm just judge Nintendo and Sony by the same standards. I guess we have to lower the bar when we're talking about Sony, right?
I don't know. It doesn't seem like to me that they're after the same type people/market. It's kind of like comparing sports cars to an economy car. IMO, the head-to-head competitor for the PS3 is the X360. The Wii is more of an indirect competitor to both (again, just IMO).

thor1182
02-02-07, 12:57 PM
I agree with it being an indirect competitor, which is why it will do real well because it is off on its own category.

Zelda_fan
02-02-07, 01:05 PM
I don't know. It doesn't seem like to me that they're after the same type people/market. It's kind of like comparing sports cars to an economy car. IMO, the head-to-head competitor for the PS3 is the X360. The Wii is more of an indirect competitor to both (again, just IMO).

That's not really a good analogy imho.

Reason being is becasue a lot of people are having fun on the Wii and they have no interest in the HI-DEF gaming on the 360 or PS3. It's not really a different type of machine as it is a different type of fun.

Nintendo is going after the crowd that wants more interactivity and a connection to the games, and judging from the sales numbers, a lot of people feel the same way.

Lyme
02-02-07, 01:06 PM
Doesn't Nvidia get a percentage per 360 sale anyway? Thought I read that somewhere because of the whole backwards compatability problems or something.

There was that speculation, but neither Microsoft or nVidia have come out and said such.

Marvel_us
02-02-07, 01:14 PM
That's not really a good analogy imho.

Reason being is becasue a lot of people are having fun on the Wii and they have no interest in the HI-DEF gaming on the 360 or PS3. It's not really a different type of machine as it is a different type of fun.

Nintendo is going after the crowd that wants more interactivity and a connection to the games, and judging from the sales numbers, a lot of people feel the same way.

So answer this...You think if PS3, Xbox360 and Wii were the same price the Wii would still be selling as good as it is?

Price is a major factor and the fact that a lot of people just can't afford HDTVs and a 400-600 dollar game console has a lot to do with the Wii's success.

Lyme
02-02-07, 01:15 PM
Highly unsuccessful and it's not even a year old yet.....right...

Really that doesn't matter since the deal Sony made with Nvidia was to pay them upfront for the technology. It was different with Xbox since nvidia made money off of each one sold. Considering Nvidia probably didn't really have to break it's back to R&D RSX for PS3 it didn't cost them much to hand over the tech.

Hitting the second paragraph first. I am under the impression that nVidia and Sony signed the same kind of deal that nVidia and Microsoft did. The deal was money up front and money per chip, which is why nVidia announced a drop in their financial due to slow ps3 sales. However, this time around nVidia bumped up the amount up front and amount per chip. So, in the event the PS3 sells well, nVidia is poised to make a bundle.

As for the first paragraph. The PS3 is in the same market as the Wii, regardless price point. The Wii has been selling 3:1 to the PS3. As such the PS3 isn't selling well. However simply because the PS3 isn't selling well now, doesn't mean it will not sell well in the future. We really need six months of data in a market to gauge sales, that means that in the UK we will be waiting till November to comment on sales there.

Marvel_us
02-02-07, 01:19 PM
Hitting the second paragraph first. I am under the impression that nVidia and Sony signed the same kind of deal that nVidia and Microsoft did. The deal was money up front and money per chip, which is why nVidia announced a drop in their financial due to slow ps3 sales. However, this time around nVidia bumped up the amount up front and amount per chip. So, in the event the PS3 sells well, nVidia is poised to make a bundle.

As for the first paragraph. The PS3 is in the same market as the Wii, regardless price point. The Wii has been selling 3:1 to the PS3. As such the PS3 isn't selling well. However simply because the PS3 isn't selling well now, doesn't mean it will not sell well in the future. We really need six months of data in a market to gauge sales, that means that in the UK we will be waiting till November to comment on sales there.

I still don't think it's direct, kind of like what OWA was saying.

Also about the deal isn't Sony still using it's own fabs to make the chip. This is one of the articles I remember reading about the deal.

http://gaming.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=5177

LurkerLito
02-02-07, 01:21 PM
I think Nvidia has a point. I love the Wii and Zelda is a great game, but even with the component cables I still find the graphics feel old. There seems like there is no AA at all and it looks exactly the same as the PS2 games I tried on the PS3. When you play Zelda you can't help but think how much better the game would be if the Wii could have the same power as the PS3 or 360 and it was playing at 720p or higher.

hordaktheman
02-02-07, 01:22 PM
I wouldn't exactly say the PS3 is unsuccessful. It's selling at a similar or slightly lower rate than the 360. It's much rather a case of the Wii doing phenomenally well than anything else.

From what I gather, the 360 sold ten million units in about 14 months while the PS3 has sold ~1.3 million units in just over 2 months.

Zelda_fan
02-02-07, 01:23 PM
I think Nvidia has a point. I love the Wii and Zelda is a great game, but even with the component cables I still find the graphics feel old. There seems like there is no AA at all and it looks exactly the same as the PS2 games I tried on the PS3. When you play Zelda you can't help but think how much better the game would be if the Wii could have the same power as the PS3 or 360 and it was playing at 720p or higher.

Yes the game would have looked crisper, but to be honest, after 20 minutes into the game I completely forgot about the graphics and just focused on how much fun I was having.

Zelda_fan
02-02-07, 01:24 PM
So answer this...You think if PS3, Xbox360 and Wii were the same price the Wii would still be selling as good as it is?

Price is a major factor and the fact that a lot of people just can't afford HDTVs and a 400-600 dollar game console has a lot to do with the Wii's success.

Obviously the more expensive you make something the less people will buy it, but you can say the same thing about the PS3 and XBOX360. If they amped up the price another $200, do you think many people would buy them at all?

I can afford to spend "whatever" and I still think the Wii is the most fun of the three (and I own two of them).

OWA
02-02-07, 01:31 PM
That's not really a good analogy imho.

Reason being is becasue a lot of people are having fun on the Wii and they have no interest in the HI-DEF gaming on the 360 or PS3. It's not really a different type of machine as it is a different type of fun.

Nintendo is going after the crowd that wants more interactivity and a connection to the games, and judging from the sales numbers, a lot of people feel the same way.
I was just trying to say they don't have the same capabilities and aren't really in the same price range so I think they're trying to appeal to different people/markets. Also, while there is some overlap, to me, the style of games also seems to be kind of different.

I agree with your comment that it could be considered more along the lines of a "different type of fun" also and maybe that's a better way to think about it.

nemecb
02-02-07, 01:33 PM
Yes the game would have looked crisper, but to be honest, after 20 minutes into the game I completely forgot about the graphics and just focused on how much fun I was having.
Yeah, it took me more than 20 minutes (actually it took me playing some GC games and realizing how much better Zelda looks), but I'm actually enjoying the graphics to some extent now. They may not be very advanced technically, but the art direction is very good.

And honestly, I think the Wii would be selling almost as well as it is now if it were the same price as the other consoles. Maybe not if they were all $600 like the PS3, but then none of them would be selling well IMHO. People aren't buying the Wii because of its price. Most of the people who've played mine say they want one and then ask what the price is, not the other way around. Price might be encouraging them, but it's not the reason for the purchase.

Edit: And on the original topic of this post (remember what that was?;)), it's just sour grapes. nVidia is currently losing out badly in the console market, so naturally they're not thrilled.

Zelda_fan
02-02-07, 01:39 PM
And honestly, I think the Wii would be selling almost as well as it is now if it were the same price as the other consoles. Maybe not if they were all $600 like the PS3, but then none of them would be selling well IMHO. People aren't buying the Wii because of its price. Most of the people who've played mine say they want one and then ask what the price is, not the other way around. Price might be encouraging them, but it's not the reason for the purchase.

I think if the Wii was $300 (same price as 360 core) it would be selling almost as good.

Banko
02-02-07, 01:41 PM
Almost every computer I see has ATI or Intel integrated graphics too. I mean, assuming they have integrated graphics. I've never seen a computer yet with nvidia integrated graphics. I'm sure the exist, but they sure aren't common.

Still, when I build a PC again, I've got my eye on the 8800 GTS
Actually I work at Circuit City and every single Desktop from HP, Gateway has included Nvidia 6150 Integrated graphics (if it didn't include Intel that it is) Now that we got the Vista pre-installed computers more actually come with the Nvidia chip, ATi isn't seen anymore.