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Banko
02-04-07, 08:44 PM
Great read!

http://www.nma-fallout.com/article.php?id=34629

Lazaredz
02-04-07, 09:52 PM
Yeah, I got about 3 paragraphs in before checking out.

What exactly is the point ... in 1 page or less please???

ynnek
02-04-07, 10:08 PM
I just skimmed it.. and basically the author of that article thinks it will be impossible for Bethesda to make a proper Fallout game that will satisfy all the "old hardcore fallout fans" while attracting new players of today.. He points to how Fallout Tactics and Fallout Brotherhood of Steel.. Tactics pissed a bunch of people off(I played it a bit, its basically just battles), and almost all the fans hated BoS (since it was nothing at all like the previous Fallouts)


He also sites X-Com as an example of this.


He thinks the game will be drastically different and/or "watered down", and have almost no ties to the original Fallout 1 and 2. He speculates Bethesda could make an post apocalyptic "Oblivion", and it might could even be a good game, but he argues that if they tried to slap the "Fallout" name on it, it would piss off a lot of the original fans.

Last paragraph sums it up

Fallout is a game that will be remembered forever by its fans. It is widely held to be among the great computer games, especially within the CRPG genre. But the Fallout franchise would not have survived without the support of the fanbase. The Fallout fanbase has only grown and is vibrant and active, if often outspoken and critical. This has a significant consequence for Bethesda. Unlike a new franchise which has enjoyed a recent initial and successful release, an established franchise like Fallout has no elbow room to move outside of its existing fanbase without killing off the imagined franchise.

In consequence of that, if Bethesda does decide to kill off the current imagined franchise, it runs a large risk of producing a flop if it fails to produce a fresh set of fans for a new fanbase. In fact, the recognition amongst the younger console crowd of this franchise is such a small factor that to attempt such a move is almost certain suicide. Want proof? Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel. 'nuff said.

nopp0x00
02-05-07, 12:17 AM
If you strip away all the overflowing crap you can pretty much sum up that entire rant into these words:

It's not going to be Fallout or Fallout 2, so it's going to suck.


This idiot overestimates the significance of these nerdish fanboy wanks that tend to fester in Nma-Fallout.

Bethesda is going to concentrate on making a good game with or without the support of these types, and if it does turn out to be received well while angering the fanboys: too bad.

At this point I have no reason to doubt Bethesda's ability to make something interesting in the Fallout universe, especially since these people worked on some of my favorite games. Yeah, I realize that's being fanboyish, but I tend not to condemn efforts before playing them unlike these Nma-types. And if it doesn't end up as fun as the previous games, I don't care-I'll go and play the original games. They have no obligation to make anything for the fans, so the fans should be happy that they are getting anything at all.

Banko
02-05-07, 12:18 AM
Funny I bet you never read that article at all. So who is the idiot?

Edit:

Only good Bethesda games:

Arena/Daggerfall

There.

Lazaredz
02-05-07, 12:19 AM
Thx for the summary.

While I agree that almost any attempt to make a Fallout that goes beyond the same gameplay as 1 & 2 will irk some hardcore fans, if they keep the writing and IDEAS behind it, it should be a success.

The choices, the adult themes, the freeform play ... THESE made Fallout, not 2d-turnbased play. Hell, Fallout itself was an evolution of Wasteland and its the homage and game STYLE that made fans of Wasteland happy, not the exact play.

Anywho, I for one think an Oblivion style romp COULD live up to the hype and legacy, IF they don't punk out and go for a "PG" rating on it ...... looking at you Aliens vs. Predator movie .....

Banko
02-05-07, 12:21 AM
Thx for the summary.

While I agree that almost any attempt to make a Fallout that goes beyond the same gameplay as 1 & 2 will irk some hardcore fans, if they keep the writing and IDEAS behind it, it should be a success.

The choices, the adult themes, the freeform play ... THESE made Fallout, not 2d-turnbased play. Hell, Fallout itself was an evolution of Wasteland and its the homage and game STYLE that made fans of Wasteland happy, not the exact play.

Anywho, I for one think an Oblivion style romp COULD live up to the hype and legacy, IF they don't punk out and go for a "PG" rating on it ...... looking at you Aliens vs. Predator movie .....
You are telling me Oblivion had choices? Not really that is why they are annoyed. Adult themes is something that Fallout fans didn't like as much, hell New Reno is the part they hate about Fallout 2.

SH0DAN
02-05-07, 01:20 AM
I just hope we dont get a pg13 game,I want the exact same pushing the damn envelope Adult themes we got in the first two,and then some !!

Sgt_Pitt
02-05-07, 07:20 AM
Fallout 2 was great, fallout tactics was also great.

The only good bethesda games are ....



.....

Namrok
02-05-07, 07:29 AM
Yeah...somehow I doubt Fallout 3 will allow you to be a pornstar, hire hookers, take slaves, kill children, and a lot of that other gritty, socially unacceptable stuff now. It just wouldn't be politically correct now, and since Bethesda caved to giving Oblivion an M rating after a MOD added nudity, somehow I doubt they'll do the Fallout world justice.

I mean the quality of Fallout & Fallout 2's world detail was just stunning. I still remember the entire town treating me like a leper when I dug up all their graves looking for loot. Or the town where I almost got jumped for being a slaver. Or the farmer who tried to kill me for hooking up with his daughter. What made Fallout different was your greed could leave a trail of destruction behind you that the game would actually pick up on and change around! None of this "Well, I slaughtered an entire family...but I paid my fine so everyone is cool with me!" stuff. You get the child killer "perk" and you're stuck with it...and people take notice.

I mean seriously, how many people in Oblivion even noticed your guild ranks, much less did they even care, or did it effect gameplay at all?

NaitoSan
02-05-07, 07:38 AM
Personally I have high hopes for Fallout 3. It's been in development for so long and I doubt they're rushing it to make money. I mean, they have been somehow secretly in development without giving out any screenshots or so. It's pretty stupid to say Fallout 3 is going to suck when we have absolutely no information on that game.

I was so excited to see poster of Fallout 3 at E3 2006. I took a couple of pictures just to show few of my friends who are big fans of Fallout series. I even asked if there's any information on Fallout 3 and all I get was that they're not allowed to talk about it but they're indeed in the development. Well... damn. :)

There's the poster I took from E3 2006.

http://home.comcast.net/~silencerelite/fallout3.jpg

Badboy_12345
02-05-07, 08:05 AM
well its impossible for it to suck when it will never come out :lol:

Vasot02
02-05-07, 09:47 AM
No its not going to suck at all

IT WILL ROCK !!!!

sMull
02-05-07, 11:57 AM
I don't have faith in Bethesda to make a worth Fallout game. Their previous games have all sufferened from various problems. But if Fallout 3 ships with the same modding tools as OBlivion/Morrowind then there is hope.

Mr. Hunt
02-05-07, 12:15 PM
Couldn't suck any worse than the first 2.

CaptNKILL
02-05-07, 12:25 PM
Couldn't suck any worse than the first 2.
(aaa)

TheTaz
02-05-07, 09:32 PM
He speculates Bethesda could make an post apocalyptic "Oblivion", and it might could even be a good game, but he argues that if they tried to slap the "Fallout" name on it, it would piss off a lot of the original fans.

Well... F**k 'em.

I could go for a post apocalyptic "Oblivion"... don't care if it's named "Fallout" or not.

/shrug

Becoming
02-06-07, 02:24 AM
The article should be entitled: "Why a small band of freaks somehow thinks their opinion is relevant to a developer/publisher that has sold millions of copies of great games (while said opinion givers do nothing but bitch and have never made a damn thing worth talking about)."

We are 1% of teh Fallout fanbois, j00 will do our biddingz!!!!

Bleh. I'm going to go wash my eyes out now.

CaptNKILL
02-06-07, 07:19 AM
I said it before and I'll say it again. I'll be extremely surprised if this game has anything turn based in it. Pretty much everything is going toward real time combat because more people find it interesting because they have more control over the game.

The system in fallout obviously worked great for the people that are obsessed with the game, but I personally couldn't stand it. I loved the atmosphere and freedom of the game, but the combat just seemed so terrible.

I just find it impossible to stay immersed in the game when your guy is standing around incapable of hitting any enemy at point blank range with a gun or a melee weapon, while all of the other enemies within 100 yards take their "turn" and close in on you.

If they released a game just like fallout with an optional real time combat mode, I'd buy it. If they released a game similar to oblivion set in the fallout world, I'd buy it. I highly highly doubt it'll be turn based and thats the only thing that'd make me not want to play this game... well and if it totally sucks ass, but I doubt that'll happen. Oblivion and Morrowind aren't perfect but if thats the kind of work Bethesda puts out, there is no way this game is going to be a total flop.

sMull
02-06-07, 08:15 AM
but the combat just seemed so terrible.

I just find it impossible to stay immersed in the game when your guy is standing around incapable of hitting any enemy at point blank range with a gun or a melee weapon, while all of the other enemies within 100 yards take their "turn" and close in on you.

Actually the combat was superb in the game. But for those too impatient to think it was possible to play it in real time i believe, or that might have been Fallout Tactics. Plus the games immersed in so many other ways, real time combat wouldn't have changed anything.

CaptNKILL
02-06-07, 09:01 AM
Actually the combat was superb in the game. But for those too impatient to think it was possible to play it in real time i believe, or that might have been Fallout Tactics. Plus the games immersed in so many other ways, real time combat wouldn't have changed anything.
No the combat sucked to me, and it (Fallout 1) didn't have a real time option. It has less to do with not wanting to think, and more to do with wanting to have some control over the game. Like I said, lots of people liked the system but I found it tedious and unrealistic and I have a feeling that the majority of gamers today would feel the same way. Because of this, I highly doubt the game will be strictly turn based, if it even includes turn based gameplay at all.

No doubt the turn based system was original and worked well for lots of people at the time, but there have been significant changes in the pace and level of user interaction in games in 10 years. In fact I'd go as far to say that the only people who would even like a system like that in a modern game would be old-school gamers (into the japanese style 16bit RPGs, or old turn based PC RPGs) and fans of Fallout.

I plan on giving the game another try soon, and even if I finally start liking the system, I still stick by it that the new game will not have the same combat system without a real time option. That just doesn't fly anymore.

Namrok
02-06-07, 09:30 AM
Honestly I regard turn based gameplay as being fairly anachronistic in game design these days. There is just no reason for it. I rather liked Baldur's Gate's system where it was real time, but I could set various triggers to pause the game so I don't get raped for not paying perfect attention.

The most important thing to me is that they keep the feeling of the world. Let it be real time, first person, whatever, just keep the feel of the game. Give us that 60's style future gone wrong. Give us a world dominated by mans basest instincts.

CaptNKILL
02-06-07, 09:44 AM
Honestly I regard turn based gameplay as being fairly anachronistic in game design these days. There is just no reason for it. I rather liked Baldur's Gate's system where it was real time, but I could set various triggers to pause the game so I don't get raped for not paying perfect attention.

The most important thing to me is that they keep the feeling of the world. Let it be real time, first person, whatever, just keep the feel of the game. Give us that 60's style future gone wrong. Give us a world dominated by mans basest instincts.
I agree 100%. KOTOR's system worked perfectly. It used a turn based rule system and it blended it with real-time gameplay and the ability to pause so that the more sticky situations could be dealt with.

I'd be happy with a system like this, though I think the gameplay is much different in a game like Fallout where resources (ammo, medical equipment, etc) are more scarce and you can't just let the battle auto-play for 10 minutes.

With tweaking though, that could be perfect. Maybe let you have direct control over things in real time, but also let you pause the game to que up commands for a more strategic approach. Sort of like a pausable version of what Vampire:Bloodlines had where it was still very much based on your stats and strategy but it wasn't some outdated "click and wait" system that'd bore most gamers to tears.

ynnek
02-06-07, 11:29 AM
Ever play Fallout as a drug user? Its hilarious.. Every new town you hit up, you immediately have to go around and search for new drugs asap, because all your stats are heavily penalized..


In Fallout 1, if you got decent intelligence, take as many mentants? is that what they were called, the drug to boost intelligence, as you can, and begin the convo.. If you are "smart enough"....

Also, ever play as a dumb character? I tried it a bit in Fallout 2.. The village elder is basically like, "wow, I can't believe you are the chosen one, gods work in mysterious ways"... Huh?! lmao

those are the few things that made Fallout awesome..

I bet you the "childkiller" stigma won't be around in Fallout 3 though. The international fallout versions had all the children taken out.

Namrok
02-06-07, 11:38 AM
I bet you the "childkiller" stigma won't be around in Fallout 3 though. The international fallout versions had all the children taken out.

But I like killing children :(

Maybe I'll be able to perform abortions instead :D