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dohcmark8
03-12-03, 05:49 PM
What happened to that thread which had info about a guy who talked to nvidia and said that they optimized the drivers to prove a point with the community, anyone have any links to this, or any articles with nvidia admitting this?.

GlowStick
03-12-03, 07:36 PM
Well i belvie what u were talking about is 42.62, but optmizing drivers for SPECIFIC games has already been proven can be done many times in the past.

the new 42.72 could be the same..............

Basicly to sum it up ATI'ers say they are "hacked" and dont promote real world preofrmance...

Nvidia'ers say they are valid...

Captain Beige
03-12-03, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by GlowStick
Well i belvie what u were talking about is 42.62, but optmizing drivers for SPECIFIC games has already been proven can be done many times in the past.

the new 42.72 could be the same..............

Basicly to sum it up ATI'ers say they are "hacked" and dont promote real world preofrmance...

Nvidia'ers say they are valid...

"ATI'ers" say they are using FP16 which isn't DX9 compliant, therefore it's not running as a true DX9 card. they are correct.

"ATI'ers" say the 3dmark2003 benchmarks are invalid because the terms and conditions requires the use of WHQL certified DX9 drivers. they are correct.

GlowStick
03-12-03, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by Captain Beige
"ATI'ers" say they are using FP16 which isn't DX9 compliant, therefore it's not running as a true DX9 card. they are correct.

"ATI'ers" say the 3dmark2003 benchmarks are invalid because the terms and conditions requires the use of WHQL certified DX9 drivers. they are correct.

ATI'ers like to claim things with no backup, just take their word for it that it runs in FP16 ; D

ATI'ers say "DOOM 3 BENCHS DONT COUNT, THEY ARE BETA" yet they bash on beta nvidia drivers ; D

Joe DeFuria
03-12-03, 08:18 PM
Originally posted by GlowStick
ATI'ers like to claim things with no backup, just take their word for it that it runs in FP16 ; D

No backup?

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4791&start=60

Whetever the mystery "performance" drivers are doing (fp16 or even back down to integer), the result is that the image is NOT CORRECT. It lacks appropriate dynamic range.

Let's see:

1) Set of drivers that are mysteriously faster, and don't render things correctly

2) Set of drivers that are slower and does render things correctly.

Nah...nothing to back that up...:rolleyes:

ATI'ers say "DOOM 3 BENCHS DONT COUNT, THEY ARE BETA" yet they bash on beta nvidia drivers ; D

No, ATI's say Doom3 benches don't count because they are based on an engine build a YEAR OLD, PLUS Carmack himself puts the 9700 and FX about on par in a much more recent summation of performance.

Lol...and what's this talk of nVidia "beta drivers?" I thought nVida had the self-proclaimed and touted "best drivers in the world!" Surely, they can't be THIS BAD for a product that's actually shipping?

I recall that ATI had WHQL drivers from day one of their hardware release, and WHQL DX9 drivers the day that DX9 was released.

Where are the WHQL drivers for nVidia's cards, from the famous nVidia driver team?

Hellbinder
03-12-03, 08:21 PM
they bash on beta nvidia drivers

HA.. Beta Drivers my Booty... :rolleyes:

GlowStick
03-12-03, 08:30 PM
Funny, when DX9 they didnt work with..... DX9 woohoo!

people were reverting to earlyer drivers to get things to work properly.

The 3.1 Cats (im not sure if they re whql) have problems in comachine with displaying textures. and on the 9700p decrease preformance. as documented on firingsquad.

OMG your right, on the beta Doom 3 it dose not count because its not officaly released. These non offical nvidia drivers IS NOT BETA, they just are in Beta stage and are not supported by nvidia.

phew if there is one bug in the beta drivers im sure it gives right to pounce on it ; D

muzz
03-12-03, 08:36 PM
If they are NOT beta, and they are in beta stage and not supported by Nvidia.. then what are they?

I got it.. they are leaked .. HUH.....

ReDeeMeR
03-12-03, 08:43 PM
Well I guess Nvidias drivers arent any better then ATi's then :rolleyes:

Moose
03-12-03, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by GlowStick
Funny, when DX9 they didnt work with..... DX9 woohoo!

people were reverting to earlyer drivers to get things to work properly.

The 3.1 Cats (im not sure if they re whql) have problems in comachine with displaying textures. and on the 9700p decrease preformance. as documented on firingsquad.

OMG your right, on the beta Doom 3 it dose not count because its not officaly released. These non offical nvidia drivers IS NOT BETA, they just are in Beta stage and are not supported by nvidia.

phew if there is one bug in the beta drivers im sure it gives right to pounce on it ; D

This is NOT a bug.

Running at a lower level of FP precision to gain points in a benchmark and then directing reviewers to ONLY use those drivers is not a "mistake" in the drivers. It is flat out CHEATING!

For your information ATI now has 2 sets of WHQL DX9 drivers and the third will be released in the next week or so. (Cat 3.2)

That makes the score ATI-3 Nvidia-0 for those who are counting.

GlowStick
03-12-03, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by ReDeeMeR
Well I guess Nvidias drivers arent any better then ATi's then :rolleyes:

Nvidias offical drivers are more stable and the have them for many OS's and a few archtextures.

Im sure they are WHQL certafied, as firiing squad said with the 3.1 WHQL CERTAFIED!!!! drivers OMG, preformance went down. Now i cant see textures on the airport hangers. but they are WHQL certafied so they MUST be quality.

But ATI only releases the BEST drivers so they must be right.

last i herd the 3.1's were offical : O

muzz
03-12-03, 09:37 PM
More os support I'll give you ( like I ALREADY have ), but for a few archtextures ? What does this mean here GS?

This is beginning to sound like the noise and IQ argument you put up right B4 the 9800pro previews.

GlowStick
03-12-03, 09:48 PM
Nvidia has drivers for X86(intel and amd's)
ia32(probly wont rember those not used much)
ia64(itanium & itanium 2)
and they have beta drivers for others.

eg what processor you are running it on

BTW they also have beta drivers out for 64bit windows, eg Athlon64 and opertron.

those drivers really are a big issue, when i had my radeon i never thought id use linux, but then i was like "hey linux is pritty cool". espcially with the 15fps increase i get on my same system.. heh.

Woodelf
03-12-03, 09:57 PM
It is really sad, if Nvidia is resorting a lower level, just to bump a
competitor. It makes it look like they have little faith in getting the NV35 to market at a high enough speed to do it the right way.

Kruno
03-13-03, 12:58 AM
Last I read, nVidia don't support ANY of their drivers. :)
You people should really stop smoking nude Dawn pics. ;)
(I still want pics of her nipple, PLEASE)

:D

Captain Beige
03-13-03, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by GlowStick
ATI'ers like to claim things with no backup, just take their word for it that it runs in FP16 ; D

ATI'ers say "DOOM 3 BENCHS DONT COUNT, THEY ARE BETA" yet they bash on beta nvidia drivers ; D

actually now it looks like it's not even using FP16, but integer mode ahahahahahahahaha nvidia is so lame. look around the threads to see the evidence. nvidiots like to ignore such things though.

Doom 3 isn't being SOLD to people. the FX is, so there being no non-beta drivers is a disgrace in itself. BTW Doom 3 wasn't beta it was ALPHA. :rolleyes:

emailthatguy
03-13-03, 01:19 PM
i find it pretty funny that the ati guys say doom3 shouldnt be used as a benchmark when its well documented that it was ati that leaked the demo in the first place

Hanners
03-13-03, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by emailthatguy
i find it pretty funny that the ati guys say doom3 shouldnt be used as a benchmark when its well documented that it was ati that leaked the demo in the first place

No, it was rumoured that ATi leaked it, but never proved.

Nazgul
03-13-03, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by emailthatguy
i find it pretty funny that the ati guys say doom3 shouldnt be used as a benchmark when its well documented that it was ati that leaked the demo in the first place


"An ATI employee leaked it without authorization" does NOT equal "ATI leaked it"

emailthatguy
03-13-03, 01:41 PM
this is an excerpt from the irc log where christian antkow from id flat out sets is straight (xian = christian antkow)


"Xian> ATI leaked it
Xian> John sent them a flame mail yesterday basically saying "This has hurt our relationship"
Xian> yeah, well, ATI has clearly violated our NDA
Xian> ATI is on our ****list right now
Xian> we are not dealing with them until further notice
Xian> We know ATI leaked it. We watermark all releases
Xian> Squiggle: ATI has a relaxed policy about pre-release software. Remember, they gave us a laptop that had Unreal Warfare loaded on it 3 months ago
Xian> They don't seem to care about strict enforcement of NDA's Xian> on a positive note, people seem to *REALLY LIKE* the leaked **** "

Hanners
03-13-03, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by emailthatguy
this is an excerpt from the irc log where christian antkow from id flat out sets is straight (xian = christian antkow)


"Xian> ATI leaked it
Xian> John sent them a flame mail yesterday basically saying "This has hurt our relationship"
Xian> yeah, well, ATI has clearly violated our NDA
Xian> ATI is on our ****list right now
Xian> we are not dealing with them until further notice
Xian> We know ATI leaked it. We watermark all releases
Xian> Squiggle: ATI has a relaxed policy about pre-release software. Remember, they gave us a laptop that had Unreal Warfare loaded on it 3 months ago
Xian> They don't seem to care about strict enforcement of NDA's Xian> on a positive note, people seem to *REALLY LIKE* the leaked **** "

That'll be the fake chat log that did the rounds then... :rolleyes:

emailthatguy
03-13-03, 01:59 PM
nobody official said the log wasnt real either

i can tell you that when i was at e3 last year, when i attended the doom demo during th q&a i asked what hardware they were running the demo on and i was told it was running on dual 2.5 gig intel chips. 1.5 gb ram and a radeon 9700 pro.

coincidence?

probobly not

GlowStick
03-13-03, 02:00 PM
Id software dose know where it came from, because they put 'easter eggs' or 'watermarks' in each compile they do. Now Id dose have a grandue complex and they kinda deserve it. But the thing is, i think Jen-Husang said it best.

How can you be mad at someone who gives you millions of dollers?

Id software needs Nvidia and ATI to stay in business. Im sure for a few weaks he went around sulking about it but everon gets over it eventually.


--------Additon

Also, when i first heard it leaked i thought it probly went down like this.

After the show ended they were takeing down teh booths, a janitor or someone stayed behind, when no one was looking *YOINK* took the hardware. And inadvertantly got doom3 alpha just as a bonus. Very plausable, me and my friends one day would like to try that :D

Or as a plan b, go to those shows and claim you own some mega review site, and demand free stuff :D

emailthatguy
03-13-03, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by GlowStick
Id software dose know where it came from, because they put 'easter eggs' or 'watermarks' in each compile they do. Now Id dose have a grandue complex and they kinda deserve it. But the thing is, i think Jen-Husang said it best.

How can you be mad at someone who gives you millions of dollers?

Id software needs Nvidia and ATI to stay in business. Im sure for a few weaks he went around sulking about it but everon gets over it eventually.

nicely put

jbirney
03-13-03, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by emailthatguy
nobody official said the log wasnt real either

Oh yes they did and they (an id employee) promptly said that was a fake log.