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1stFlight
03-14-03, 09:40 PM
I was looking over the Tom's Hardware benchmarks for the GF FX products and I realized something. Wouldn't Nvidia be better served by shoving the 5200 out the window, pushing the 5600 to the low range, the 5800 non-Ultra to mid-range and keep the FX Ultra in the higher range?

If they did that they'd actually have products that'd be actually competitive with ATI's 9800, 9700, 9500's.

muzz
03-14-03, 09:58 PM
I think it would be more competitive with that lineup myself.

StealthHawk
03-15-03, 01:24 AM
the question is can they really afford to drop prices on those products down a notch?

how common are the gfFX5800s? are they a low volume product? i have my doubts as to the profit per board for the 5800 at $200.

1stFlight
03-15-03, 06:37 AM
Good point, especially if the regular 5800 uses the same 10-layer PCB.

Originally posted by StealthHawk
the question is can they really afford to drop prices on those products down a notch?

how common are the gfFX5800s? are they a low volume product? i have my doubts as to the profit per board for the 5800 at $200.

Uttar
03-15-03, 06:53 AM
You do realize nVidia would be losing money on every chip sold then, right? :rolleyes:

It's called capitalism.


Uttar

1stFlight
03-15-03, 07:48 AM
No, it could be doable . But as it stands their going to be losing customers to ATI hand over fist. In fact on the back cover of April's Maximum PC that new Alienware system that was raved about shipping with a GF5800 Ulta, is now shipping with a ATI Radeon 9800 Pro.

NVidia may be wise to ship at a loss for the short term to maintain a good consumer base. That too is called Captialism.

Uttar
03-15-03, 08:04 AM
Originally posted by 1stFlight
NVidia may be wise to ship at a loss for the short term to maintain a good consumer base. That too is called Captialism.

No it wouldn't be.
The 5200 will let them keep a big portion of the customer base - its reviews, want it or not, are quite good.
The 5600 & 5800 sound like failures.

The 5800 is going to be replaced by the NV35 in 4-5 months.
The 5600 is going to be replaced by the NV36 in 8 months

nVidia is not really going to lose marketshare if the 5200 is a success.

Also, the 5600 Regular ( which has not yet been announced, but was reviewed by downclocking the clocks to 325/275 by a few websites ) at $169 could also be an excellent money maker for nVidia.

The *only* range nVidia is in big trouble is the $249->$499 range.
And you ain't gonna fix that by making sure there's no more products there :D


Uttar

silence
03-15-03, 08:12 AM
/me agrees with Uttar

one more thing......Nvidia has stronger brand then ATi in eyes of average consumer and guees what, both companies now have x200, x600 and x800 card in normal and pro/ultra versions.

this is aimed directly at confusing average costumer who will prolly go for stronger brand, which means Nvidia. even with all bad things said lately about FX family of cards, nvidia as brand is stronger then ATi, specially in eyes of average consumer who doesn't take time to read all we have to say bout dustbuster and it's family. ;)

DSC
03-15-03, 08:13 AM
5200 is the low-end PoS that will make OEMs happy and keep Nvidia in the black for the next few months. Great upgrade for TNT2 users too and maybe for GF256 SDR/DDR, GF2 GTS/Pro/Ultra/MX users too. Heh. :D :p

jbirney
03-15-03, 09:41 AM
Problem for NV is that ATI said they will have a version of the R9600 at the 100 price point. Which should but the 5200 and that on more or less equal footing...

Uttar
03-15-03, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by jbirney
Problem for NV is that ATI said they will have a version of the R9600 at the 100 price point.

Link?
I'm pretty sure the cheapest 9600 will be at $149-$169, could be wrong though

sc_sc0
03-15-03, 10:13 AM
You gotta be kidding.

ATI 9600 was paper launched. no board for review yet.
Jeez. now anything ATI is bad is forgiven even paper
launch. Same goes for Mobile 9600.

We don't know yet.
(1) if 9600 will out perform 5600
(2) if 9600 will be priced cheaper than 5600
(3) if ATI can mass produce and ship to OEM in large quantity.

so don't make any assumption by looking at ATI hypes.

looks like 5600 can be overclocked. look for many
variation.

GlowStick
03-15-03, 11:06 AM
Kinda bump in the road, but Nvidias stratgie has allways been to raise the cost to entry so high that no one can compete.

I think they are going to show us that with the NV35 being pushed out faster, then if they still feel heat they will push out the nv40 faster untill one side gives.

RM. Andersson
03-15-03, 11:19 AM
Both Nvidia and ATI can and will change the prices if it becomes obvious that they can make a bigger profit by doing that.

The mid and value cards will be replaced with cards that are more expensive at the moment if they think that it will be more profitable to do so.
Itīs all about profit. Thatīs true for both companies.
And it depends on what happens.
If one of the companies think that they dont sell enough cards in the mid or value segment they will certainly do something about that.

digitalwanderer
03-15-03, 11:32 AM
I don't think the 5200 is the guaranteed success y'all seem to think it is going to be, I have a feeling it's going to go over like a brick. :)

Time will tell, it should be very interesting either way. I'm hoping all the duking it out on the low-end will make for some decent deals in the mid-range. (I'm a mid-range kind-o-guy :p )

GlowStick
03-15-03, 11:40 AM
i wonder if anyone knows the true price it costs a manufactuer to make a card. i get the feeling that the 199$ value card we buy costs less than 50$ to make ; \

silence
03-15-03, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by GlowStick
i wonder if anyone knows the true price it costs a manufactuer to make a card. i get the feeling that the 199$ value card we buy costs less than 50$ to make ; \

that 1 billion they mentioned surely had to come from somewhere.

/me so bright

1stFlight
03-15-03, 01:15 PM
You've got ot figure in developement costs, NVidia's engineering team, and all did not come cheap. So even the device itself cost pocket change, all the work that went into it and it's follow-on, must also be accounted for .

Originally posted by GlowStick
i wonder if anyone knows the true price it costs a manufactuer to make a card. i get the feeling that the 199$ value card we buy costs less than 50$ to make ; \

silence
03-15-03, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by 1stFlight
You've got ot figure in developement costs, NVidia's engineering team, and all did not come cheap. So even the device itself cost pocket change, all the work that went into it and it's follow-on, must also be accounted for .

let's not forget marketing and PR.....prolly most expansive part of FX.....just remember that if you buy FX product you actually pay those <censored> in Nvidia marketing that are feeding us with so much BS lately.....i wonder how much do they cost?

EDIT :: i forgot this is nvidia site, so i censored one word;) ....you can fill up as you wish:D

Onde Pik
03-15-03, 02:17 PM
Nvidia are very lucky that they got such an amazing brand name with "GeForce". I know some people who think that "a geforce" is what that type of input device is really called.

Hype and crazy PR stunts can carry Nvidia for a while longer I think. Remember what a small fraction of the ppl who buy vid cards that actually attend theese forums.


I have been to a retailer who told me that the GF4 TI4600 was much faster than the R9700P becuz "it was Titanium". I asked him what he meant by that but he just repeated "It is Titanium", the third time when I had asked him what exactly it meant that it was titanium he looked at me like I was stupid "Well its Titanium, that means that it is faster".

Also back when the R9700P just got out and alot of board partners were just selling build by ATI products. A guy at the counter got extremly upset when I told him it didnt matter which of 2 boards you bought, because they were identical(Ehh.. as identical as 2 boards from the same manufacturer would be). He consequently refused it, even when I showed him that there was NO diffrence between the cards excpet the sticker on the fan.

Seriously.... if theese are the kind of people actually selling hardware. Nv can just release rehashes of Nv30 for years to come ;)

GlowStick
03-15-03, 02:53 PM
Well, the good Geforce name wasent just magicly givien to them.

About the 2 boards being the same that is ture, but some OEMS are a bit diffrence, for games id allways go with an ATI branded board unless there is a huge price diffrence, many times their isnt.

And there is a problem with the sapphire 9500 boards that wont run in Soyo's. The funny thing is the ATI 9500 works, i think an extra 10$ or 20$ is worth haveing a board that was manufacutred exactly to ATI's specs.

Steppy
03-15-03, 04:37 PM
I've already noticed big differences in the retail stores around here. Month's ago there would only be one or two Nvidia cards in stock, the rest would be sold out and there was a good portion of ATI cards still on the shelf. Recently that situation has reveresed itself. I think the public is becoming aware of the changing of the guard quicker than what a lot of people thought it would.

GlowStick
03-15-03, 05:05 PM
Heh, i acutally have a new Best Buy story to tell u guys.

Basicly in my best buy (it is kinda in a poor area) the only cards they had were the Radeon 9000 and the Geforce 4 Ti200.

Now i went back (friday) and i saw they had NO video cards out, i thought they moved them and asked an employee, and they told me what card sthey had left they transferd them to another Best Buy and will not stock any more video cards......

I guess my area cant support any videa card sales at all.

So i checked my Cirucit City that is a few blocks from BB and they had a better selection, actually i was impressed. They had 1 R9700p and 1 R9500p and 1 Ti4600 and 1 ti4200. I asked them if they had more in stock and they said no. They dont sell them hardly so they only keep one of the popular cards in stock :O

i dunno whats up with that or if the videa card market is going down.

StealthHawk
03-15-03, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by digitalwanderer
I don't think the 5200 is the guaranteed success y'all seem to think it is going to be, I have a feeling it's going to go over like a brick. :)

Time will tell, it should be very interesting either way. I'm hoping all the duking it out on the low-end will make for some decent deals in the mid-range. (I'm a mid-range kind-o-guy :p )

the gf4mx sold well and the gfFX5200 is superior to the gf4mx in every way.

sebazve
03-16-03, 12:17 AM
is the gfx 5200 mid range?:p