NV35 = lower clock than NV30

[Gar]

Just posting some info from CeBit over at Xbitlabs about the upcomming NV35. Here is the link (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/editorial/display/cebit2003_7.html).

NV35 will have a 256bit memory bus, and the working frequencies of the chip and memory will be lower than those of the current NV30. However, nevertheless, the performance promises to be considerably higher. For example, in Quake3 Arena game (timedemo1, 1280x1024) the performance difference between NV35 and NV30 made over 70%! Hm.. If we add here an enhanced anisotropic filtering unit and improved anti-aliasing quality, we will get a real tidbit. The only thing which will remain the same is the size of the card with the cooling system installed: the graphics cards based on this chip will still occupy the room of two PCI slots.

Of course, if we try to be realistic in our estimates, I believe this product will hardly be ready by the fall, and the cards based on it may come to the market closer to Q4 at the earliest. So, I wouldn’t be too excited about it. And can you imagine what happens to the sales of the super-expensive products based on the today’s NV30 if the company really decides to launch the new chip in spring?

Having lower clocks makes more sense since OEMs will want the lower voltage and heat requirements, similar to what many have been saying about the 9800pros clocks. What also strikes me is that they will be forced to use the larger NV30 FX Flow for the NV35. This is discouraging as many people were turned off to this cooling device more than the below "PR-perceived" performance. All in all the 256bit bus will no doubt add an extra boost in performance, but with lower clock speeds this is going to effect its fill rate. It must be that .13 is still not maturing enough, at least for a better HSF which is why it might be delayed even more. Still its not official, but its interesting to say the least.

[GlowStick]

Though im an NVidia'er i get the feeling they are right on the q4 part. =[

should i order a nv30 now or hold off, that is the question!

[Gar]

Honestly Glowstick, I think you should at least wait for May. By then you will have availability of the NV30 ultra/non ultra/ 9800pro 128 and the 256MB with DDRII and higher clock rates and all of the lower Nvidia and ATI lines. Plus you'll have more mature drivers from both camps. Ultimately you will know whether the NV35 will be out and if its not, you can make your choice.

[GlowStick]

Aye, that would be the logical thing to do, but im very impatient and have a problem.

My Geforce3's cooler fan died so i orderd a vga cooler from Xoxide.com. They sent me a broke one, so they said "we will send you a new on on good faith" the part was only 8$ so i can see why a business would do that. They said it would of shiped out last monday, then told me they do all their returns/repaclemtns this monday. Still no cooler, its been 3 weeks : (

but for me to buy any other cooler it would be cheepr for me to get a generic ti4200.

i feel so nekked with out any 3d power. : (

i think i can hold out till april at the most!

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by GlowStick
My Geforce3's cooler fan died so i orderd a vga cooler from Xoxide.com. They sent me a broke one..............................i feel so nekked with out any 3d power. : (

i think i can hold out till april at the most!

SCREW THAT!

Grab an old system fan, super-glue it on top, and VOILA! Back in the gaming goodness. :)

It ain't pretty, but it gets the job done well. ;)

[The Baron]

I doubt that info, ESPECIALLY if it's going to be delayed that long.

There is working silicon of the NV35 now--I don't think it'll be pushed back due to drivers a la NV30.

[GlowStick]

Originally posted by The Baron
I doubt that info, ESPECIALLY if it's going to be delayed that long.

There is working silicon of the NV35 now--I don't think it'll be pushed back due to drivers a la NV30.

I really hope your right :D

I am considering getting an hammer processor, and whats gonna support 64bit os's and linux :O

[Uttar]

The Spring release info is correct, and his "probably more like Q4" thingy is lame, false speculation.
The NV35 taped-out in January. There are working samples. The 0.13 process is becoming slightly more mature.

And this is just lame:
And can you imagine what happens to the sales of the super-expensive products based on the today’s NV30 if the company really decides to launch the new chip in spring?

Hellooo? Anyone still there?
nVidia is producing 100000 NV30s
50000 are for the workstation market, and the NV35 might not have a workstation derivative immediatly.
15000 are GFFX Ultras, and 35000s GFFX Regular.

All of them will be on the market for late April.
nVidia is probably launching the NV35 in late May, early June.

And ATI is getting the R350s on the market, which will hurt the NV30 sales anyway.

I don't see why nVidia couldn't launch the NV35 in Q2.


As for a few other things he said...
This time the company decided not to use the brand new DDR-II and to return to DDR-I memory. NV35 will have a 256bit memory bus, and the working frequencies of the chip and memory will be lower than those of the current NV30. However, nevertheless, the performance promises to be considerably higher. For example, in Quake3 Arena game (timedemo1, 1280x1024) the performance difference between NV35 and NV30 made over 70%! Hm.. If we add here an enhanced anisotropic filtering unit and improved anti-aliasing quality, we will get a real tidbit. The only thing which will remain the same is the size of the card with the cooling system installed: the graphics cards based on this chip will still occupy the room of two PCI slots.

Switching back to DDR-I is possible, but unlikely. It was pretty much confirmed by several people that the NV35 had "32GB+" of raw bandwidth.

1280x1024, 70% faster? With what, a 5Ghz protype Prescott using eighty channel RDRAM? *cough* CPU limitations *cough*


Conclusion: That source is probably, but not certainly, a fake using rumored info and modifying it slightly to look more possible.


Uttar

[nutball]

The article, just before the excerpt quoted above, says this:


According to one pretty reliable source, the company is going to introduce a new NV35 solution, and not some time later, but this spring!


...which has a totally different spin.

I do wonder about the DDR-1 stuff. NVIDIA made a lot of noise at NV30 launch time about how the NV30 was designed with the burst length of DDR-2 memory transfers in mind. I suppose with a bus twice as wide there's not so much difference between 128 x 4 and 256 x 2.

I'll hush now, I'm rambling :)

[Uttar]

Originally posted by nutball
The article, just before the excerpt quoted above, says this:



...which has a totally different spin.

What proofs us the DDR-I part comes from the same source, anyway?


I do wonder about the DDR-1 stuff. NVIDIA made a lot of noise at NV30 launch time about how the NV30 was designed with the burst length of DDR-2 memory transfers in mind. I suppose with a bus twice as wide there's not so much difference between 128 x 4 and 256 x 2.

I'll hush now, I'm rambling :)

Not exactly true.
AFAIK, a Burst Length of four means that four "32x4" packets are sent at the same time.
So, it's 32x16 for the DDR-II 128-bit memory bus NV30

With a Burst Length of two and "64x4", you're sending 2 "64x4" packets at the same time.
So it's 64x8 for a DDR-I 256-bit memory bus chip.

The hard part is making it efficient for 64 instead of 32.


Uttar

[GlowStick]

I just reread the article and it contadicts it self.


First it says Q4, then it says nvidia will get it out the door as fast as they possibly can.

So think uttar can be right on it.

but now im riled for a nv35, im gonnna wait for the preorder!

[DSC]

I'm also interested in NV35, but I would take a more cautious, wait and see attitude first. Must wade through much of PR BS first before you can get to the gist of the product. See NV30 as an example. :eek:

I want to see solid numbers first, improved AA & AF quality and speed, raw Pixel Shader speed improvements, Vertex Shader speed improvements, before even considering. :o

[Uttar]

First of all, I've got to say DSC's opinion is probably the safest one. The rumors saying the NV35 uses DDR-II are older than this one, so maybe it's a last-minute change.

But...

Originally posted by DSC
Vertex Shader speed improvements

What do you have to complain about the NV30's VS?
In most cases, it's on par with the R350's VS!

The only exception, AFAIK, being branching where the R350 wins by a healthy margin ( 30%, IIRC )


Uttar

[DSC]

Originally posted by Uttar
What do you have to complain about the NV30's VS?
In most cases, it's on par with the R350's VS!

The only exception, AFAIK, being branching where the R350 wins by a healthy margin ( 30%, IIRC )




;) :D :p

Yeah, maybe I'm just anal, but I want more speed from the VS. :rolleyes:

[Paul]

NV35 is definitely coming before Q4.

As for being 70% faster, sure that's true - In certain, specific benchmarks. Not in Quake3 though, and certainly not without high AA/AF settings being taken into account :)

[volt]

The launch will be in Spring (at least paper). When? End of April, early May I'm hearing.

[kyleb]

Hm.. If we add here an enhanced anisotropic filtering unit and improved anti-aliasing quality, we will get a real tidbit.

i particlarly like that part, the author comes about as close as you can get to saying he is trying to make it sound good without coming right out saying he is just making things up.:angel:

[jbirney]

I also doubt they have done anything new in AA :(

[Kruno]

Maybe they might add the Voodoo 5's FSAA? ;)

Yeh, yeh, yeh! We 3dfx fanboys still hope. :p

[GlowStick]

any improvemnts for fsaa and AF will come from drivers, they will go retroative on the nv30 also, liek the improvements did for the gf4

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by GlowStick
any improvemnts for fsaa and AF will come from drivers, they will go retroative on the nv30 also, liek the improvements did for the gf4

we want quality, not speed. the gf4 got speed enhancements, never quality.

[GlowStick]

Originally posted by StealthHawk
we want quality, not speed. the gf4 got speed enhancements, never quality.

Actually the Gf4 did not get only get speed enhacnements, but hte AF got a big boost in quality. Its nvidia new method that a review, i forget witch one, was praiseing because it also improved the quality of the gf4.

[Evildeus]

Originally posted by StealthHawk
we want quality, not speed. the gf4 got speed enhancements, never quality.
In fact i want both :)

[ReDeeMeR]

w00t, you got me thrilled, cmon 32BG+ bandwith!!!!

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by GlowStick
Actually the Gf4 did not get only get speed enhacnements, but hte AF got a big boost in quality. Its nvidia new method that a review, i forget witch one, was praiseing because it also improved the quality of the gf4.

they are wrong then. quality never went up. most people think that in newer drivers quality actually went down due to nvidia playing with the LOD settings and increasing texture aliasing.

i have never heard nor seen anyone reputable claiming increased AF quality with newer drivers. hell, i have not seen anyone make such claims period.