My impressions of Vanguard

[UDawg]

Ok after getting double XP this whole weekend I think I am well informed to comment on the game thus far.

First thing that I noticed was the horrible physics. The whole game felt slow and awkward. The movements were very robotic. A buddy and me who played Guild Wars hated the fact that you could not jump. Well with how bad it looked when jumping in Vanguard, we decided that not jumping would be prefered.

The second thing I noticed was the very poor optimization of the game. Coming from UT2 engine it should run better but it doesn't. All I can say is don't go near any city or yetis. For some reason yetis lagged my puter big time.

The thing was the horrible questing. I don't think they could make the quests any more vague or meaningless than they did in Vanguard. There was no rhym or reason to the quests. Now this is a minor thing to me but it does leave you feeling like you don't care about the chains or the information in the at the least it leaves you a bit confused.

All in all if they changed the physics of the game and optimized the graphics this would be a great game. It still would not be on the same caliber as WoW but it would pull me away from WoW. Instead it is a game I am having fun with but I don't feel satisfied with. I'll play it for this month and see if it still holds any play value after that. Until then my lvl 14 Pally named Palatard Hearthbuble will be trodging through Tanvu awkwardly NOT jumping.

[Xion X2]

Alright, I let most of that go because everyone has a right to their opinion, even though I disagree with yours and think that Vanguard's a great game. But this right here:

and optimized the graphics

--I am completely scratching my head over. Did you mean to say "optimize the performance" instead? Because Vanguard, at high settings, is the best damn looking game that I've ever seen in many places.

Didn't you say before that you were running a 6800U for graphics?

I'm also wondering how someone could let something so little as the way a character jumps ruin their impression of a game? How much time do you spend jumping on Vanguard? It's not a game of hopskotch; it's an MMO. The only time I ever jump is when I'm on a horse and there's a rock or two in the way.

[UDawg]

Alright, I let most of that go because everyone has a right to their opinion, even though I disagree with yours and think that Vanguard's a great game. But this right here.
I am not the only one who thought what I listed above. Every review said baically the same thing. After playing the game all weekend long and Tygerwoody can attest as I am in his guild, I put the whole weekend into this game. It is a slightly above average MMO. Yet I still like the game. It just isn't great. If you like that that is cool, have fun with it. I on the other hand can see me playing to 50 but then most likely fading away into better games like Warhammed and Age of Conan.

--I am completely scratching my head over. Did you mean to say "optimize the performance" instead? Because Vanguard, at high settings, is the best damn looking game that I've ever seen in many places.

Didn't you say before that you were running a 6800U for graphics?
Yes the graphics performance is not optomized. There isn't any way around this. It uses the UT2 engine IIRC. That is not a new engine. Sure it has been updated but the game runs pretty badly. My buddy has a computer that is only 5 months old and he noticed the inconsistant performance. Go into a city and unless you have a top of the line computer, the city will lag do to horrible performance in the graphics engine.

BTW I really hate the argument "it's your old computer n00b". That doesn't play with me. Don't pass off poor graphical performance onto me to justify why the game runs so bad. Yes it is much better than BETA but it still needs work. It has only been out one month and that is no where near enough time to fix the problems it had at the end of BETA. Sorry, I've been playing games too long and building computers to long to buy your line of reasoning here.

I'm also wondering how someone could let something so little as the way a character jumps ruin their impression of a game? How much time do you spend jumping on Vanguard? It's not a game of hopskotch; it's an MMO. The only time I ever jump is when I'm on a horse and there's a rock or two in the way.
LOL! You missed my point and are trying to trivialize my dislikes of the game.
My point is the physics of this game are horrible compared to a game like WoW. In WoW the movemnt feel is free and not sluggish. Vanguard is like you are running through water all the time. The movement is herky-jerky at best. It is the worst part of this game. I used the jumping as an example. When you jump it feels unatural and that is how all the movements feel.

[Xion X2]

I am not the only one who thought what I listed above. Every review said baically the same thing.

Ahhh, screw reviews. Some of them would have you believing that Jet-Set-Radio was the greatest game ever made, like Gamespot did a while back. They're unreliable.

After playing the game all weekend long and Tygerwoody can attest as I am in his guild, I put the whole weekend into this game.

Don't get defensive; I'm not trying to change your opinion. If you don't think it's that good, that's fine. I just voiced my own by disagreeing with you.

Go into a city and unless you have a top of the line computer, the city will lag do to horrible performance in the graphics engine.

I have, and I agree with you. I was just unclear on your comment about "graphics optimization," because that sounds more like you were making the statement that the game didn't look that good, which is entirely different from game performance.

BTW I really hate the argument "it's your old computer n00b". That doesn't play with me. Don't pass off poor graphical performance onto me to justify why the game runs so bad.

I didn't do that. Check yourself, UDawg. You were just unclear about what you were meaning with your vague term "graphics optimization" which could mean either the way a game looks or the way it plays with said graphics enabled.

My comment about your graphics hardware was in regards to the possibility that you were saying the game looked bad.

LOL! You missed my point and are trying to trivialize my dislikes of the game. My point is the physics of this game are horrible compared to a game like WoW. In WoW the movemnt feel is free and not sluggish. Vanguard is like you are running through water all the time. The movement is herky-jerky at best. It is the worst part of this game. I used the jumping as an example. When you jump it feels unatural and that is how all the movements feel.

Well WoW's physics may be better, but it is downright ass-ugly compared to Vanguard. This much I know. That game looks horrible.

[UDawg]

Ahhh, screw reviews. Some of them would have you believing that Jet-Set-Radio was the greatest game ever made, like Gamespot did a while back. They're unreliable.



Don't get defensive; I'm not trying to change your opinion. If you don't think it's that good, that's fine. I just voiced my own by disagreeing with you.



I have, and I agree with you. I was just unclear on your comment about "graphics optimization," because that sounds more like you were making the statement that the game didn't look that good, which is entirely different from game performance.



I didn't do that. Check yourself, UDawg. You were just unclear about what you were meaning with your vague term "graphics optimization" which could mean either the way a game looks or the way it plays with said graphics enabled.

My comment about your graphics hardware was in regards to the possibility that you were saying the game looked bad.



Well WoW's physics may be better, but it is downright ass-ugly compared to Vanguard. This much I know. That game looks horrible.

Its cool.

I really do like the game. It is my tye of MMO. I also think the game looks great even on my computer. I think the physics of the game are the biggest hinderance to it being fantastic IMO.

Now I like WoW's style of graphic. They went for style over realizm. At the same time I like Vanguard's realistic look. I do like the feel of being in a semi-real forest. Although the cities to suck. There just isn't much to them. This is just a matter of taste in the look of the game. If you like a cartoony style then you will like the look of WoW. If you like a more realistic style then you will like Vanguard. BUT if you like a more free flowing game then WoW blows Vanguard out of the water. It is a more exciting game. I like them both but WoW is just a better over all game, dispite not having that realistic look to the graphics.

[Xion X2]

I do happen to agree with you about the physics. They could certainly be better.

But.. I don't know. Maybe it's the fact that it's the first MMO I've played for a significant amount of time, or maybe it's something else. But I like the game an awful lot. It's pretty deep.. the crafting, the diplomacy, etc... the world is just so big, and I've already been on several cool quests. Did you ever get to the one w/ the shipwreck on the beach in Lomshir? It had wrecked, and the entire crew were a bunch of walking zombies. There was a ghost of the captain up top who gave you a mission to go inside the ship and below-ground to rid it of a demon infestation that had taken over. You had to travel underground and close all these huge portals that they kept popping out of.

Absolutely awesome.

I've also been in some neat underground cave quests, and the grouping aspect seems to work really well. Some of the most fun I've had on the game was in intense battles with 2 or 3 others by my side.

[Xion X2]

I've done some extensive testing with Vanguard. It seems the engine doesn't like bloom and HDR enabled together, although it lets you do it when most games don't. Bloom gives it an extra glare effect off concrete surfaces and around light sources, but for the most part there's no visual quality increase and it makes ~10fps difference. In populated areas with lots of NPCs, it's made up to a 15fps difference by turning bloom off.

With a single 8800GTX, SLI disabled, v-sync enabled (capped at 60), all in-game settings maxed:

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/3157/vgclient200703061720442eu5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/5581/vgclient200703061724179rk5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/576/vgclient200703061725192hr0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

For the most part it stays pinned at my refresh rate. This part was a little more demanding, graphically.

[Tygerwoody]

I don't even see how this is even up for discussion Xionn. Vanguard does not run good. It runs like crap. Its definitely not optimized and needs to be fixed. Sure you can post up your 60fps areas just as i can, but you can also post where you get 2-3 fps to make your shots a little more truthful.

Either way, The game is fun though. :D

BTW, Udawg is now a converted democrat. Just thought everyone would like to know :D

[Blacklash]

Defeating bloom and using HDR instead helped smooth my game out a lot. I tried that because I remembered the 8800 is a HDR beast and from other games not wanting to combine bloom and HDR well.

Also they have definitely improved the loading. You still have times when the systems stops to load large chunks and that has been greatly reduced. Using the /flush command occasionally is a good idea to clear caches. I can run 1680x with 16xAF and all detail sliders pegged right without issue. Cities with many players in close proximity can slow you down and I improved that as noted in the opening. The game does need work.

If you hate the game now try it again in 6 months or so. They are making progress.

I am still waiting for a good Sci-fi MMO myself. If I had total control over AO I could turn that into an acceptable game, and the engine is far too old for my tastes.

SoE are increasing the Station pass price to 29.95 soon and I may take a break from pay to play MMOs myself. Honestly, "Oblivion" and the "Baldur's Gate" series feel more like RPGs than any MMORPG I have ever played. If anyone ever makes a pay to play MMO where Rogues advance and play somewhat like "Thief: The Dark Project" I'll probably be back. For now I am tired of kill, kill, kill.

[nV`andrew]

yeah i agree the game doesnt run very well but im happy with it on my system. in battles my fps is fine. usually about 25-40. only in cities does it get a little annoying, but my system is hardly considered mid-range now. but i have so much fun grouping with people and demolishing stuff. i love this game. the performance will gradually get better over time as more patches are released

[Mr. Hunt]

Yeah... cities are where it hits my system hard... which sucks because I find myself crafting quite a bit now... but anyway... a lot of MMOs have trouble in cities.

[UDawg]

BTW, Udawg is now a converted democrat. Just thought everyone would like to know :D
Word.


Yes, the graphic engine is not ready yet. Tyger and I both said at the end of the BETA that there was no way this is near ready to be released with the performance problems it has. This does not mean it can't be made better, only that it is not finished. If this was a first person shooter, NO ONE would play it even on high end machines because of the performance problems.

[UDawg]

Yeah... cities are where it hits my system hard... which sucks because I find myself crafting quite a bit now... but anyway... a lot of MMOs have trouble in cities.
True but most are from server lag and not graphics perfromance problems, though I know what you mean.

[queth]

8800gtx, vista 64, 4gb ram, e6700.
game runs fn awesome at 1920x1200 maxed out.
runs great in cities, rarely dipping below 15 fps even in central tursh.
if you get stutter you /flush
could it be better? yes of course but its pretty sweet as it is.

[UDawg]

8800gtx, vista 64, 4gb ram, e6700.
game runs fn awesome at 1920x1200 maxed out.
runs great in cities, rarely dipping below 15 fps even in central tursh.
if you get stutter you /flush
could it be better? yes of course but its pretty sweet as it is.
Well sure if you have the top of the line system it will have less problems but you are getting 15fps in certain areas. LOL!

[Xion X2]

I don't even see how this is even up for discussion Xionn. Vanguard does not run good. It runs like crap. Its definitely not optimized and needs to be fixed. Sure you can post up your 60fps areas just as i can, but you can also post where you get 2-3 fps to make your shots a little more truthful.

Come on, Tyger. Quit BS'ng. There's nowhere in this game that runs at "2-3fps." The lowest my game ever gets now with bloom turned off is ~35-45fps in the crafting halls at Hathor Zhi. If you want me to post some screens of that, then I'll be perfectly happy to.

I agree that the game's not optimized as well as it should be, but don't go off the deep end.

I'm not sure where your animosity for my last comment comes from anyway. I was just trying to share a performance boost that I've figured out while playing the game while sharing a few nice shots I took last time out playing it, so you can stop trying to turn this around into an argument about me believing the game runs flawlessly.

And you guys need to listen to Blacklash and I. Turning bloom off does make a difference. A very SIGNIFICANT difference. Turn that off and go back to your cities that are dragging down to 15fps and you'll see what I mean. The bloom effect that is used around the torches and the glare effect off floors does not jive well with the HDR effect in this engine at all. It needs to be disabled until they can work out the bugs with it.

[Tygerwoody]

Come on, Tyger. Quit BS'ng. There's nowhere in this game that runs at "2-3fps." The lowest my game ever gets now with bloom turned off is ~35-45fps in the crafting halls at Hathor Zhi. If you want me to post some screens of that, then I'll be perfectly happy to.

I agree that the game's not optimized as well as it should be, but don't go off the deep end.

I'm not sure where your animosity for my last comment comes from anyway. I was just trying to share a performance boost that I've figured out while playing the game while sharing a few nice shots I took last time out playing it, so you can stop trying to turn this around into an argument about me believing the game runs flawlessly.

And you guys need to listen to Blacklash and I. Turning bloom off does make a difference. A very SIGNIFICANT difference. Turn that off and go back to your cities that are dragging down to 15fps and you'll see what I mean. The bloom effect that is used around the torches and the glare effect off floors does not jive well with the HDR effect in this engine at all. It needs to be disabled until they can work out the bugs with it.
I'll try your advice about the bloom. I'm not sure if its on or not to be honest. I'll report my results.

Either way, even if bloom gives me 10fps back i still think the game has a ways to go with optimization. However, the game runs WAAAAYYY better than in beta so I won't complain much. :D