All AMD/ATI R600 chips are 65 nanometre

[Heinz68]

Looks like the R600 consumption problem was solved or at least some of it, what do you think about that.
theINQUIRER (http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=38292) - By Theo Valich in Hanover: Friday 16 March 2007, 18:56
The 80nm R600 die - as it was leaked - will now come to life only in a very limited amount of chips, since AMD decided to solve their problems by pulling all resources to go 65nm across the board, including this 720 million heavy monster. This drastically reduces power consumption and enables AMD to clock R600 to 1 GHz or even more. The mass production R600 will be made on a 65 nanometre process.

This means that even though AMD is more than six months behind in terms of G80 vs. R600 battle, AMD actually now has six month levy over NV55, more known to people as ex-G81, currently known about G90 (or NV55 in halls of Satan Clara).

We have talked with several high-ranking AMD executives and confirmed this rumour. So, from March 16th at 19:59 CET - the R600 which you will buy in stores in May will be 65nm, and will consume almost one third less power than the 80 nanometre one. µ

[slaWter]

Sounds good.... if it's true.

[AthlonXP1800]

Wow just wow, I am not very surprised to hear that, if it is true then ATI are really very stupid to ignored Nvidia lesson with NV30 mistakes and think they knew the technology process better than Nvidia did. When ATI had first R600 silicon based on 80nm out last November, they discovered that the die had lots of problems plus it had shocked 360W power consumption and it probably had around 30% performance slower than 90nm G80.

It no wondered if 80nm R600 had ever been released with maybe 5000 units in January 2007 then I dont think anyone would want to buy lower clocked 80nm R600 with appaled 360W power that were slower than 90nm G80 clocked 575/1800 with less than half at 150W power. If AMD did followed same example Nvidia did with NV30 then they would be the laughing stock and saw their stocks crashed. That didnt happened, I think 80nm R600 fiasco left AMD with 2 options either to canned 80nm R600 project and worked on 80nm R650 or took a very risky massive gamble to switched R600 to 65nm and tried to fixed problems and reduced appaled 360W power consumption as much as they can so they were very lucky did it reduced the power 1/3 to 240W on 65nm.

[rflair]

Wow just wow, I am not very surprised to hear that, if it is true then ATI are really very stupid to ignored Nvidia lesson with NV30 mistakes and think they knew the technology process better than Nvidia did. When ATI had first R600 silicon based on 80nm out last November, they discovered that the die had lots of problems plus it had shocked 360W power consumption and it probably had around 30% performance slower than 90nm G80.

It no wondered if 80nm R600 had ever been released with maybe 5000 units in January 2007 then I dont think anyone would want to buy lower clocked 80nm R600 with appaled 360W power that were slower than 90nm G80 clocked 575/1800 with less than half at 150W power. If AMD did followed same example Nvidia did with NV30 then they would be the laughing stock and saw their stocks crashed. That didnt happened, I think 80nm R600 fiasco left AMD with 2 options either to canned 80nm R600 project and worked on 80nm R650 or took a very risky massive gamble to switched R600 to 65nm and tried to fixed problems and reduced appaled 360W power consumption as much as they can so they were very lucky did it reduced the power 1/3 to 240W on 65nm.


Your reply is all what if's and maybe's.

The Inq is a half ass site, but your reply is worse.

[AthlonXP1800]

Your reply is all what if's and maybe's.

The Inq is a half ass site, but your reply is worse.

It not just The Inq the only source, I found VR-Zone and Rage3D has more details about 65nm R600, it looked likely confirmed from CeBit but we shall have to wait and see in end of March.

[AthlonXP1800]

Found PCWatch article from Beyond3D, AMD is confirmed R600 is based on 65nm and use 250W power, the R600 slides and specs are at PCWatch.

http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2007/0317/cebit06.htm

[SH64]

This should explain the high clocks. imagine what Nvidia can do with a 65nm G80!

[rflair]

Found PCWatch article from Beyond3D, AMD is confirmed R600 is based on 65nm and use 250W power, the R600 slides and specs are at PCWatch.

http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2007/0317/cebit06.htm

Cool!

I think that the r600 was well into development when AMD took over, and they brought a wealth of talent as far as die processing goes and were able to get the r600 right. ATI was ready for a fumble, but AMD recovered.

Well we will see.

Didn't meen to come of like a prick. :D

[Arioch]

Well AMD had better come out with this card soon and have it perform well. The company is really struggling with competition from Intel on the CPU front where the main focus of their business is at. I am not sure buying ATI was a good decision considering the shape the company is in right now. While I don't think the company is going to fold any time soon the financial world is not too keen on the company right now.

[AthlonXP1800]

Well AMD had better come out with this card soon and have it perform well. THe company is really struggling with competition from Intel on the CPU front where the main focus of their business is at. I am not sure buying ATI was a good decision considering the shape the company is in right now. While I don't think the company is going to fold any time soon the financial world is not too keen on the company right now.

Well I think you has no idea how bad the state of AMD's current financial, a whle ago I heard that AMD had issued a profit warning for the next quarter and then the next few weeks AMD then issued a cash flow warning that alarmed in investors ears. This brought me flood of sad memories of Commodore in 1994 when their $107m cash ran dried up completed unexpected unnoticed in 1 year period. A cash flow warning mean that the companies is either nearly in liquidation or closer to bankruptcy but in the end Commodore filed for bankruptcy on 29 April 1994 because the shareholders of Commodore stocks would not invested more money in the company while the stocks plummet then crashed and the banks who issued the loans to Commodore had declined for another large loan to allowed the company to run for 1 more year until 1995 and paid all the debts they owed to the banks because the banks did not believed their action plan for 1995 will worked so that why Commodore still sat on mountain of debts that never paid off because they didnt made money on old and new inventories or failed to made profits, they made huge losses of $658.7m out of 4 bad quarters and had about $350m in debts. Commodore was a $1bn company until 1992 but were only worth just $500m in April 1994.

AMD are now in the same financial difficulties situation as Commodore did. A year ago to be exactly, AMD was a $18bn company, they were much bigger than $10bn Nvidia. But now 1 year on, AMD are not ever bigger than $10bn Nvidia, AMD is now worth $7bn company with over $3.8bn in debts and about $1.5bn of cash dried out any time right now. Nvidia now has over $2bn cash in hand and has no debts, they are now very healthy company with security guarantee for investors and shareholders, AMD are no longer offer security guarantee because their stocks were battred bruised so badly by Intel, it can plunge to $10 anytime soon that will value AMD as $5.5bn company and the value of $5.7bn ATI acqusition make it look worthless. It could happend with the next Intel CPU price cuts next month, AMD are really cant afford another price cut with almost no cash left, CPU prices cut cost AMD and Intel about $300m each time it cutted CPU prices.

AMD are now in grave danger of liquidation or bankruptcy, it very real likehood possible that the banks will be decline to give AMD another large loan as much as $2.5bn because it would raised AMD debt level to $6.3bn and it will cause the debt level to outweight AMD assets, meaning that AMD will owed the debts to the banks more than their assets. Get another loan is really bad idea for AMD, the only way for AMD to survive is a takeover by a company 3 times bigger than Nvidia who has huge financial muscles that they dont mind write off AMD $3.8bn debt and has the ability to survive through prices wars with Intel and Nvidia and hopefully the new company will continue the same successes as AMD did years ago with Athlon 64. If nobody interested in AMD before time run out because of current debt level then AMD will be folded and the liquidators will be appointed to get their AMD and ATI assets break up in pieces and sell it to the highest bidders at bargain prices to cover the costs of $3.8bn debt AMD owed to the banks.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070311/ap_on_bi_ge/amd_intel_shifting_fortunes;_ylt=AhfUbSCIDhPeuOjiO 2pl.sfMWM0F

[Mr_LoL]

The question now for me is are the clock speeds so high to comprehensively beat an 8800 and 8900Gtx or simply to keep up. I can wait for benches.

[halduemilauno]

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sdbear.com%2F2%2Flib% 2F200702%2F15%2F20070215056.htm&langpair=zh%7Cen&hl=it&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools

[Treason]

Well I think you has no idea how bad the state of AMD's current financial, a whle ago I heard that AMD had issued a profit warning for the next quarter and then the next few weeks AMD then issued a cash flow warning that alarmed in investors ears. This brought me flood of sad memories of Commodore in 1994 when their $107m cash ran dried up completed unexpected unnoticed in 1 year period. A cash flow warning mean that the companies is either nearly in liquidation or closer to bankruptcy but in the end Commodore filed for bankruptcy on 29 April 1994 because the shareholders of Commodore stocks would not invested more money in the company while the stocks plummet then crashed and the banks who issued the loans to Commodore had declined for another large loan to allowed the company to run for 1 more year until 1995 and paid all the debts they owed to the banks because the banks did not believed their action plan for 1995 will worked so that why Commodore still sat on mountain of debts that never paid off because they didnt made money on old and new inventories or failed to made profits, they made huge losses of $658.7m out of 4 bad quarters and had about $350m in debts. Commodore was a $1bn company until 1992 but were only worth just $500m in April 1994.

AMD are now in the same financial difficulties situation as Commodore did. A year ago to be exactly, AMD was a $18bn company, they were much bigger than $10bn Nvidia. But now 1 year on, AMD are not ever bigger than $10bn Nvidia, AMD is now worth $7bn company with over $3.8bn in debts and about $1.5bn of cash dried out any time right now. Nvidia now has over $2bn cash in hand and has no debts, they are now very healthy company with security guarantee for investors and shareholders, AMD are no longer offer security guarantee because their stocks were battred bruised so badly by Intel, it can plunge to $10 anytime soon that will value AMD as $5.5bn company and the value of $5.7bn ATI acqusition make it look worthless. It could happend with the next Intel CPU price cuts next month, AMD are really cant afford another price cut with almost no cash left, CPU prices cut cost AMD and Intel about $300m each time it cutted CPU prices.

AMD are now in grave danger of liquidation or bankruptcy, it very real likehood possible that the banks will be decline to give AMD another large loan as much as $2.5bn because it would raised AMD debt level to $6.3bn and it will cause the debt level to outweight AMD assets, meaning that AMD will owed the debts to the banks more than their assets. Get another loan is really bad idea for AMD, the only way for AMD to survive is a takeover by a company 3 times bigger than Nvidia who has huge financial muscles that they dont mind write off AMD $3.8bn debt and has the ability to survive through prices wars with Intel and Nvidia and hopefully the new company will continue the same successes as AMD did years ago with Athlon 64. If nobody interested in AMD before time run out because of current debt level then AMD will be folded and the liquidators will be appointed to get their AMD and ATI assets break up in pieces and sell it to the highest bidders at bargain prices to cover the costs of $3.8bn debt AMD owed to the banks.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070311/ap_on_bi_ge/amd_intel_shifting_fortunes;_ylt=AhfUbSCIDhPeuOjiO 2pl.sfMWM0F

That sounds like a reasonable analysis. Can anyone refute it?

[Redeemed]

That sounds like a reasonable analysis. Can anyone refute it?

I've just got to ask- are you really still using a GFFX 5600Ultra? I always wonder that everytime I see one of your posts. :p

Sorry for the threadjack. :( :firedevil

[Heinz68]

That sounds like a reasonable analysis. Can anyone refute it?If I was looking for reasonable analysis about AMD/ATI I sure would not read what AthlonXP1800 thinks and post.
Based on his expert Commodore and Amiga analysis ATI should have been dead already about one year ago, read few AthlonXP1800 posts in this tread
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=58562&page=2

In fact leave to AthlonXP1800 to bring any bad news about AMD/ATI.
I like to look at AMD/ATI from the positive site, only big dumb dumb or big NVIDIA or Intel shareholder would like to see AMD/ATI liquidated. If it would ever happen it would hurt the consumer big time.

This doesn't look to me AMD is just about to be bankrupt and liquidated:

AMD shoots up the semiconductor charts (http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=38249)

R600 launch to be biggest in GPU history (http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=38300)

[retsam]

Well I think you has no idea how bad the state of AMD's current financial, a whle ago I heard that AMD had issued a profit warning for the next quarter and then the next few weeks AMD then issued a cash flow warning that alarmed in investors ears. This brought me flood of sad memories of Commodore in 1994 when their $107m cash ran dried up completed unexpected unnoticed in 1 year period. A cash flow warning mean that the companies is either nearly in liquidation or closer to bankruptcy but in the end Commodore filed for bankruptcy on 29 April 1994 because the shareholders of Commodore stocks would not invested more money in the company while the stocks plummet then crashed and the banks who issued the loans to Commodore had declined for another large loan to allowed the company to run for 1 more year until 1995 and paid all the debts they owed to the banks because the banks did not believed their action plan for 1995 will worked so that why Commodore still sat on mountain of debts that never paid off because they didnt made money on old and new inventories or failed to made profits, they made huge losses of $658.7m out of 4 bad quarters and had about $350m in debts. Commodore was a $1bn company until 1992 but were only worth just $500m in April 1994.

AMD are now in the same financial difficulties situation as Commodore did. A year ago to be exactly, AMD was a $18bn company, they were much bigger than $10bn Nvidia. But now 1 year on, AMD are not ever bigger than $10bn Nvidia, AMD is now worth $7bn company with over $3.8bn in debts and about $1.5bn of cash dried out any time right now. Nvidia now has over $2bn cash in hand and has no debts, they are now very healthy company with security guarantee for investors and shareholders, AMD are no longer offer security guarantee because their stocks were battred bruised so badly by Intel, it can plunge to $10 anytime soon that will value AMD as $5.5bn company and the value of $5.7bn ATI acqusition make it look worthless. It could happend with the next Intel CPU price cuts next month, AMD are really cant afford another price cut with almost no cash left, CPU prices cut cost AMD and Intel about $300m each time it cutted CPU prices.

AMD are now in grave danger of liquidation or bankruptcy, it very real likehood possible that the banks will be decline to give AMD another large loan as much as $2.5bn because it would raised AMD debt level to $6.3bn and it will cause the debt level to outweight AMD assets, meaning that AMD will owed the debts to the banks more than their assets. Get another loan is really bad idea for AMD, the only way for AMD to survive is a takeover by a company 3 times bigger than Nvidia who has huge financial muscles that they dont mind write off AMD $3.8bn debt and has the ability to survive through prices wars with Intel and Nvidia and hopefully the new company will continue the same successes as AMD did years ago with Athlon 64. If nobody interested in AMD before time run out because of current debt level then AMD will be folded and the liquidators will be appointed to get their AMD and ATI assets break up in pieces and sell it to the highest bidders at bargain prices to cover the costs of $3.8bn debt AMD owed to the banks.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070311/ap_on_bi_ge/amd_intel_shifting_fortunes;_ylt=AhfUbSCIDhPeuOjiO 2pl.sfMWM0F
bankrupcy doesnt mean the end of the world for a company, hell ill humor you, lets say they do go bankrupt? do you think this would kill a company? i dont, hell look at kmart 4 years ago. they went bankrupts and a year later came out and bought up sears. if they run dry of cash there is always other ways of keeping afloat.

[zampe]

???
"Interpreting" from this, conclude both companies have a good future.. I hope!
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=6524 (http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=6524)

[AthlonXP1800]

???
"Interpreting" from this, conclude both companies have a good future.. I hope!
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=6524 (http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=6524)

Well iSuppli compiled the list last November but they got it all wrong so I read the already updated AMD's SEC K-10 Annual report (http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/2488/000119312507044191/d10k.htm) to get latest final figures for new combined AMD/ATI financial results.

2006 2005
(In millions)
Total net revenue $7,579 $8,047
Net profit/(loss) $(716) $(938)
Basic net loss per common share $(1.33) $(2.05)
Diluted net loss per common share $(1.33) $(2.05)


iSuppli got 2006 revenue quite right but they got 2005 revenue completed wrong, it no 91% boosted predicted but it actually -6% declined in 2006 from 2005 revenue of $8bn. But it not looked so good for AMD, actually it hit their profit margins very hard as the combined company would made no money for the whole 2 years, they had lost $1.65bn in 2 years. That will not the last but AMD will expect the worse for this quarter result, analysts expected AMD posted yet another huge losses of about $540m. Nerve breakdown AMD shareholders better sell whole shares before the stock take a massive plunge.

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlehybrid.aspx?type=comktNews&storyid=URI:2007-03-19T125303Z_01_BNG43663_RTRIDST_0_AMD-RESEARCH-BOFA-UPDATE-1.XML&rpc=11

[Lyme]

That sounds like a reasonable analysis. Can anyone refute it?

The numbers don't seem to jive with AMDs financial statement http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/DownloadableAssets/FinancialsQ406.pdf

[Mr_LoL]

But Athlonxp1800, I thought you loved AMD cpus.