Who thinks Nvidia will release NV35 this summer?

[Solomon]

Am I the only one having a hard time believing Nvidia's PR lately? From the Q&A's to the news posts? They would be more credible if they actually released products, eh? I just seriously don't see Nvidia releasing any NV35 for Spring/Summer. The first "enthusiast" card has never made it to retail, yet even their budget cards are schedule for Spring. Which officially starts in 4 days. :)

Regarding their past launches, I've never seen Nvidia release a product after another product within a 3 month gap. It just never happened. Unless I'm mistaken, then that's cool. I just wish this damage control would stop and they face the music. First release the fricken products and stop feeding sites the damage control patches... It's just to hard to tell the BS from the truth. You feelin me out there? Hehe.

I mean seriously, has anyone even received their "Non Ultra" GeForce FX that supposed to be their "Enthusiast Mainstream Product" yet? What's funny is that they will kill off any sales of any kind on their GeForce FX 5800 if they announce another "Enthusiast" card in Spring.

Regards,
D. Solomon Jr.
*********.com

[creedamd]

The nv35 is a long time away, the nv30 isn't even ready yet!! Lots of problems. I saw the news on the front page and laughed, someone is in dreamland.

[CurtMan]

I'm calling late summer early fall. Like the Radeon 9700 Pro last year. Maybe a month later....like early October. Release or Paper Release I'm not sure though.

[c4c]

Hmm...

I'll definately be taking a "wait and see" attitude with the announcement for NV35 coming out soon.

As far as nVidia hurting their sales, I think they already did that when they got their product to market so late with marginal performance/features. As it stands, there is little reason to get a FX5800 so surely it would be better to get the next product out ASAP. Soooo, the story seems -believable- given their current situation, but who really knows?

But assuming the NV35 IS coming out fairly soon, there is still the question of AA quality. Will they continue to use sub-par AA compared to Ati? Only time will tell... :)

[creedamd]

Originally posted by CurtMan
I'm calling late summer early fall. Like the Radeon 9700 Pro last year. Maybe a month later....like early October. Release or Paper Release I'm not sure though.

where at in Va, henrico here.

[John Reynolds]

I'm having a hard time believing they're able to work on a 'refresh' of a part they couldn't get to work. NV30's delays would have to delay NV35, period.

And NV31/34 are not on time by any stretch of the most hallucinogenic mind.

Dave (Wavy) and I were emailing the other day and we both agreed that being a fanboy is one thing, being unable to think for yourself is another.

That said, a summer release wouldn't surprise me. I'm leaning toward a 'late' summer release, but still.

[volt]

Originally posted by c4c
But assuming the NV35 IS coming out fairly soon, there is still the question of AA quality. Will they continue to use sub-par AA compared to Ati? Only time will tell... :)

This revolves around only one thing: memory controller. That's why you've seen hacked drivers / IQ reduction to gain extra speed etc.

As I'm thinking, AA/AF will be on par if not better than on 9700/9800.

[John Reynolds]

Originally posted by volt
This revolves around only one thing: memory controller. That's why you've seen hacked drivers / IQ reduction to gain extra speed etc.

As I'm thinking, AA/AF will be on par if not better than on 9700/9800.

You're joking, right? If not, then you understand absolutely zero about ASIC chip design. In fact, if you believe NV35 is just around the corner as you apparently do you should understand that this has given Nvidia no time to make any significant changes to NV30. Thus your assertions are contradictory (NV35 not delayed, out soon, and radically improved over NV30).

[muzz]

Excuse me for asking this, but what gives you the idea it will as good or better than the ATi AA/AF ?
I have seen no evidence of their progress myself, so if you have some inside info please share.:D

[Paul]

The NV35 will be out late June / July, with 256bit bus and various hardware bugs fixed. It's not going to be a revolution over the NV30 - it's going to be the product the NV30 should have been at launch.

I'd expect it to outperform the R350, and about level with a 0.13 R350, give or take. Then we move onto the R400 and the NV40 next year (i don't see R400 being available to retail this year, regardless of what ATi followers suggest).

[shinrai]

I'd just thought i would agree with most in saying that i am sick of rumours aswell, particularly from Nvidia that are spread to us through the industry to sites like these. I want Facts not fiction!

[c4c]

Originally posted by volt
This revolves around only one thing: memory controller. That's why you've seen hacked drivers / IQ reduction to gain extra speed etc.

As I'm thinking, AA/AF will be on par if not better than on 9700/9800.

I assume you're talking about the speed of the AA, not the actual quality. I am referring to how well the AA takes care of edges. Take the two links from Beyond3d for instance:

First is the GeFX: http://www.beyond3d.com/previews/nvidia/gffxu/index.php?p=17

Second the R350: http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/ati/r350/index.php?p=20#sample

If you'll notice, the 2X AA between the 2 cards is fairly similar. But the 4X and above is drastically better on the ATI card due to the "scatteredness" of the sample points taken. This can be seen in screenshots, etc... The only AA from the Geforce that I -might- consider competitive is the 4XS mode, simply because it does partial supersampling which would help with alpha textures. Sadly it seems nobody has benchmarked this mode on the FX, probably because of performance issues.

I'm not sure about the technical reasons why nVidia can't seem to do this scattered type of AA, perhaps somebody else could explain that. John Reynolds?

So, my main concern is that even if the NV35 gets the AA performance up there, the quality still won't be as good. Which kind of makes the whole thing a wash. Again, only time will tell :)

[Paul]

Originally posted on Beyond 3D
Factor in a relatively low performance hit, thanks to the 256-Bit bus and colour compression, and it appears to be a very effective solution.

That is talking about the R350. Now, remember - The NV35 has the 256-bit bus which will enable them to at least do SOME of the kind of AA that they previously just couldn't do at a good speed.

I'm not suggesting their AA will leap by huge margins in both speed and quality, but i think we'll see a nice increase in both - even if, at the end of the day, it doesn't quite reach ATi standard.

Then again, how many of these AA problems do you notice when playing? Few, i'd imagine. Those problems will just get less and less with time.

[Typedef Enum]

I've heard this all before. I have a bunch of emails from Brian from this same timeframe last year (Spring of 2002), in which he was talking up the NV30...especially after the 9700/Doom demo.

The only thing nVidia can do is _deliver_. Forget the promises. Just lay low until you're ready to deliver a product, and then talk.

[Solomon]

Originally posted by John Reynolds
I'm having a hard time believing they're able to work on a 'refresh' of a part they couldn't get to work. NV30's delays would have to delay NV35, period.

And NV31/34 are not on time by any stretch of the most hallucinogenic mind.

Dave (Wavy) and I were emailing the other day and we both agreed that being a fanboy is one thing, being unable to think for yourself is another.

That said, a summer release wouldn't surprise me. I'm leaning toward a 'late' summer release, but still.

Exactly... If they are having issues with getting the NV30 out to the market, what makes anyone think the NV35 will be out in summer. I peg for Fall.. Remember Fall is between August 21st and October 31st. That's when I expect any "new" products out that Nvidia might announce in June/July. If they announce a new product in that month. No offense to ya Volt, but do you seriously think that PR at Nvidia will give ya "facts" about their "new hardware" ?

To sum things up...Although NV30 was late that does not mean that the NV3X parts scheduled to follow have been pushed back, I confirmed this with Brian Burke of NVIDIA.

Nvidia's PR are feeding on ya man... Don't believe everything they tell ya man, especially considering they are backed in the corner. Let me guess, PR man, Brian Burke said, "You can print that if you want too".. type of attitude right? :) Trust me, PR people have approached us as well... Don't fold! :p

Regards,
D. Solomon Jr.
*********.com

[Paul]

Originally posted by CoWBoY

And lastly, if ATi tapped out the R350 in Oct. 2002 according to "Title Club" then why couldn't they have R400 by the end of this year?

Why would ATi feel the need to release a higher speed R350 (0.13, etc) later in the year if:

a) They didn't think the NV35 was coming anytime soon
b) They knew the R400 was coming Q3/4 2003?

[Solomon]

Originally posted by Typedef Enum
I've heard this all before. I have a bunch of emails from Brian from this same timeframe last year (Spring of 2002), in which he was talking up the NV30...especially after the 9700/Doom demo.

The only thing nVidia can do is _deliver_. Forget the promises. Just lay low until you're ready to deliver a product, and then talk.

LOL!!! Brian Burke reminds me of Spam... Eventually someone will respond to it! :D :D

Regards,
D. Solomon Jr.
*********.com

[muzz]

Whats the term.
The Masta' of prop pa gan da........
BB

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by John Reynolds
You're joking, right? If not, then you understand absolutely zero about ASIC chip design. In fact, if you believe NV35 is just around the corner as you apparently do you should understand that this has given Nvidia no time to make any significant changes to NV30. Thus your assertions are contradictory (NV35 not delayed, out soon, and radically improved over NV30).

Thank you, I thought Volt's logic sounded nuts but couldn't quite put me finger on why.

(Then again, I had to get pretty baked to sit thru King George's proclamation, so that could have something to do with.....what was I talking about? :confused: )

[Cotita]

I don't think that the nv35 will have a 256 bit bus, designing a new memory controller and pcb (already 10 layer on the nv30) in so little time is a daunting task.

On the other hand, supposedly the nv31/34 are based on the nv35 core, but then again neither the nv31 or nv34 are great performers.

Supposedly, most of the nv30 problems were related to the .13 process, so it is possible that the nv35 can be released late spring/early summer.

As always, we'll just have to wait and see.

[volt]

You can scratch this: only one thing as it made no sense to me either after reading it again heh.

I still stand by the fact that the memory controller is one of the key factors in AA/AF performance/quality. Usually the hardware bugs are ironed out with the refresh products, that's why I'm not worrying about it that much. One thing I'm skeptical about in NV35's ASIC is the power draw.

[CurtMan]

To CreedAMD's question: Richmond

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by volt
You can scratch this: only one thing as it made no sense to me either after reading it again heh.

I still stand by the fact that the memory controller is one of the key factors in AA/AF performance/quality. Usually the hardware bugs are ironed out with the refresh products, that's why I'm not worrying about it that much. One thing I'm skeptical about in NV35's ASIC is the power draw.


I'm not disagreeing with your factual information, you're a bright puppy who's usually bang-on. What I'm questioning is your timetable...I don't think nVidia can pull a miracle card out of it's arse right on schedule from when the NV30 was SUPPOSED to have originally launched when I still ain't seen the card available anywhere.

Can you see where this might give me a slight cause for some skepticism about seeing the NV35 released anytime soon? Or at least why I find it a bit laughable to believe that you believe nVidia when they tell you that? (HINT:nVidia hasn't been exactly entirely forthcoming and truthful with all their information about release dates and such lately.... :rolleyes: )

[John Reynolds]

Originally posted by volt
I still stand by the fact that the memory controller is one of the key factors in AA/AF performance/quality.

Bandwidth has nothing to do with the quality of the output. You can have 30GB, 40GB , or 50GB, and none of it will change the fact that NV30's AA modes are ordered grid (except for 2x).

What Nvidia is counting on is winning the benchmarks and thereby reclaiming the performance crown. Because the fact that, say, at 10x7x32 their 4x is faster than the 9800 Pro's 4x at the same resolution, comparing the performance of equal samples when the rendered output is not comparable is exactly what Nvidia is counting on reviewers to do. And they will. So Nvidia skates through yet another generation of products that offer outright crap AA.

[ChrisRay]

I think people are gonna be surprised how much different the Nv35 Launch will be from the Nv30.

I think we will all be surprised when this card hits the market. One thing I have learned about computer hardware is to keep an open mind.

Once people get past all the BS by both companies. All you will see is two companies struggling hard to get their product lines out. Nvidia has had a rough time this year.

That does not mean they do not think/plan ahead. If anything Nvidia is well known for planning ahead.

I think you are counting Nvidia out before they even step up to the plate in this case wanderer.