PDA

View Full Version : The future of Creative Labs & sound card market


AthlonXP1800
03-22-07, 08:13 PM
Found the article at EliteBastards on Creative Block - The future of Creative Labs and the sound card market (http://www.elitebastards.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=348&Itemid=29).

Windows Vista is the end for EAX and EAX will be the next A3D? :(

Bman212121
03-22-07, 08:21 PM
Just look at everyone's sig here and you'll see if that is true or not. :) EAX doesn't work natively, but it works using alchemy so all it not lost. It might not be called EAX in the future, but they'll have something bigger and better for us.

RAY16
03-22-07, 08:51 PM
EAX through DirectSound3D is dead, now it'll be run through OpenAL. Games built on Vista will either use OpenAL or switch to in-house software audio systems (like Doom 3's sound engine, which is pretty damn good).

stevemedes
03-22-07, 09:37 PM
I just dont understand why MS would go and screw over all the people that have Creative cards, which is just about everyone.

CaptNKILL
03-23-07, 12:03 AM
Meh, either games will keep using hardware sound through OpenAL or good software sound engines will be implemented.

Either way, my X-fi will work great and I'll get the most out of every game's sound.

Zelda_fan
03-23-07, 12:29 AM
Just look at everyone's sig here and you'll see if that is true or not. :) EAX doesn't work natively, but it works using alchemy so all it not lost. It might not be called EAX in the future, but they'll have something bigger and better for us.

You do realize that we represent less than 1% of the home computer market. Games won't use EAX or OpenAL anymore, they'll just use Vista's audio interface, which is just as good as EAX but is compatible with nearly every soundcard.

Rakeesh
03-23-07, 12:31 AM
I just dont understand why MS would go and screw over all the people that have Creative cards, which is just about everyone.

Actually not really. AFAIK only 6% of the audio card market uses creative cards. I stopped using creative a long time ago, they became impractical after the DOS days were over and there were no more issues relating to interrupt compatibility with some games.

Plus that is about when creative drivers started sucking ass, which is the main reason why the SB Live! was my last creative card I ever bought (I've had more, but I've usually obtained them for either free or next to free.)

jAkUp
03-23-07, 12:53 AM
Games will still use OpenAL. Creative is not going anywhere.

stevemedes
03-23-07, 01:10 AM
I really don't know jack about how sound cards work, EAX, OpenAL, Directsound or whatever they call it. I just want my new sound card that I just bought to work in future games. As long as that happens then I'm happy.

CaptNKILL
03-23-07, 01:32 AM
...which is just as good as EAX but is compatible with nearly every soundcard.
EAX doesn't really have anything to do with the "interface" or API or anything like that. Its a set of hardware DSP effects that are used to create an audio "environment" out of the sounds in a game. Unless the game programmers do this on their own, there is no "Vista audio interface" that has this capability.

EAX works in OpenAL under Vista, and with ALchemy, it works in quite a few DS3D games, and support for other games seems to be moving along pretty well.

It wouldn't surprise me if all hardware audio eventually ceased to exist over the next few years (integrated sound is getting pretty damn good, so no one buys sound cards), but I also don't think that will be a "good" thing until people start programming fast, bug free sound engines that can do environmental effects.

stevemedes
03-23-07, 02:09 AM
I have a ? cause I'm really bad with this whole audio stuff.

What is this Alchemy jazz all about. As I understand it, it allows games to work with X-Fi under Vista, right? Is it automatically installed when u install Creative's Vista drivers? Or is it something seperate you need.

e.g. I installed BF2142 under Vista (a "sounds best with X-Fi" game), and go to the sound tab under the options, and u can choose between, software, hardware, or X-fi. It wont let me choose X-fi, gives me some error. Lets me choose hardware accel though.

jAkUp
03-23-07, 02:21 AM
EAX doesn't really have anything to do with the "interface" or API or anything like that. Its a set of hardware DSP effects that are used to create an audio "environment" out of the sounds in a game. Unless the game programmers do this on their own, there is no "Vista audio interface" that has this capability.

EAX works in OpenAL under Vista, and with ALchemy, it works in quite a few DS3D games, and support for other games seems to be moving along pretty well.

It wouldn't surprise me if all hardware audio eventually ceased to exist over the next few years (integrated sound is getting pretty damn good, so no one buys sound cards), but I also don't think that will be a "good" thing until people start programming fast, bug free sound engines that can do environmental effects.

I don't know about that, Creative has pretty much created a monopoly on the gaming audio section, so I think they will continue to do that. If not creative, then someone else will.

I mean, if we can introduce Physics cards, and gaming network cards, than a gaming sound card is almost a given ;)

jAkUp
03-23-07, 02:23 AM
I have a ? cause I'm really bad with this whole audio stuff.

What is this Alchemy jazz all about. As I understand it, it allows games to work with X-Fi under Vista, right? Is it automatically installed when u install Creative's Vista drivers? Or is it something seperate you need.

e.g. I installed BF2142 under Vista (a "sounds best with X-Fi" game), and go to the sound tab under the options, and u can choose between, software, hardware, or X-fi. It wont let me choose X-fi, gives me some error. Lets me choose hardware accel though.

It is a seperate program, and it is required for games that use EAX through DS3D... such as BF2 I think. Doom3 engine games use EAX through OpenAL, so they do not need this program. FEAR, BF2 and many others you will need to install the Alchemy tool.

You can get it here, it is pretty easy to use:
http://preview.creativelabs.com/alchemy/default.aspx

stevemedes
03-23-07, 02:32 PM
It is a seperate program, and it is required for games that use EAX through DS3D... such as BF2 I think. Doom3 engine games use EAX through OpenAL, so they do not need this program. FEAR, BF2 and many others you will need to install the Alchemy tool.

You can get it here, it is pretty easy to use:
http://preview.creativelabs.com/alchemy/default.aspx

Hey thanks alot for the linky, I appreciate it. :)

Rakeesh
03-23-07, 03:58 PM
I don't know about that, Creative has pretty much created a monopoly on the gaming audio section, so I think they will continue to do that. If not creative, then someone else will.

I mean, if we can introduce Physics cards, and gaming network cards, than a gaming sound card is almost a given ;)

Well, right now gaming cards are still stuck with proprietary API's, which means that they'll continue to suck for now.

kevJ420
03-23-07, 04:11 PM
I really think that they need to move up to 24/96 internally more than 3d audio fx.

Stereo digital optical output @24/96 is also uncompressed, while 5.1 Digital output is compressed.

I think some thing else that is very important, is developers make games with little to no music compression (not the same as output compression mentioned above) even if it means multiple dvds and download additions.

If PPU's take off, cpu's will be relieved of more burden, so HW audio xl won't be necessary.

Vik1dk
03-23-07, 05:47 PM
It is a seperate program, and it is required for games that use EAX through DS3D... such as BF2 I think. Doom3 engine games use EAX through OpenAL, so they do not need this program. FEAR, BF2 and many others you will need to install the Alchemy tool.
BF2/2142 are also OpenAL games

stevemedes
03-23-07, 05:53 PM
Im using Alchemy. But it doesnt detect any games to fix. Something I'm missing here? I have HL2 ep1, CS:S, quake 4 and BF2142 installed right now.

Vik1dk
03-23-07, 06:47 PM
Check link, Necrosoft did some good work testing games, maybe you will find something usefull :)
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=85600&highlight=Alchemy

Grov
03-24-07, 07:17 AM
So my X-Fi will be pretty much useless when i get Vista?

jolle
03-24-07, 12:12 PM
So my X-Fi will be pretty much useless when i get Vista?
Not really.
You got ALchemy to wrap older DirectSound stuff to OpenAL.
And for newer games you still have OpenAL support.

einstein_314
03-24-07, 12:18 PM
So my X-Fi will be pretty much useless when i get Vista?
Not at all....it will work fine. You just need to use Alchemy for DirectSound games.

nekrosoft13
03-24-07, 12:20 PM
So my X-Fi will be pretty much useless when i get Vista?

no, x-fi is the best card for vista currently, only card with will get you sound quality in all previous, and current games that still use directsound.

x-fi currently is the only logical choice for vista

nekrosoft13
03-24-07, 12:22 PM
Im using Alchemy. But it doesnt detect any games to fix. Something I'm missing here? I have HL2 ep1, CS:S, quake 4 and BF2142 installed right now.

hl2, cs:s doesn't need alchemy

quake 4 uses openal (if i remmember correctly)
bf 2142 does use openal