Unwinder smacks ATI around silly

[DSC]

http://www.guru3d.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=47459


As I've expected, instead of fixing bugs in their 'rock stable' drivers Catalyst developers implementend some protections against SoftR9x00-styled PCI DeviceID modification. Some of these protections are aimed to emulate bugs in case of SoftR9x00 detection and I _really_ don't like when coders do such things. It's a bit strange that they didn't protected the driver at all against PCI DeviceID swapping technique, used in Wizzard's driver (probably they just thought that it's based upon RT's scripts and didn't peeked inside). Nevermind, I realize that one day it will be blocked too so information about the protections in Catalyst 3.1 will be extremely useful for public.



Second, ATI added two ‘problem emulation’ styled protections against PCI deviceID override. This is the worst thing that can be done by programmers and I’d like to say ‘hello’ to that ‘smart’ coders from ATI who created it. Maybe you shoul fix the real bugs instead of trying to emulate new one, guys?


:eek: :D ;) :rolleyes:

Unwinder defeats the driver protections in ATi's drivers so easily..... :p

Keep those 9x00 mods going....

[Captain Beige]

^^what a w4nk3r




Fixed in this driver:

* Display Driver
o Playing a video using the RealOne Player no longer results in display corruption and an error message being displayed by the RealOne Player
o Running the game Combat Flight Simulator 3 with 4x Anti-Aliasing enable no longer results in texture corruption being displayed.
o Running the demo ATI-9700-NPRHatching with Anti-Aliasing enabled at 2x and the display set to 1024x768 32bpp no longer results in corruption being displayed on screen
o Selecting D3D 8.1 renderer in Nascar 2003 followed by selecting Replay Studio in the main menu no longer results in the car having missing textures.
o Setting the display to 1024x768 32bpp followed by changing the AGP speed from 8x to 4x no longer results in the AGP speed not retaining its setting
o Setting the Hardware Acceleration slider to None no longer results in a reboot of the system and the settings not being retained
o A reboot is no longer required when making changes to the Wait for Vertical Sync under the ATI Direct3D Tab
o Running the game Myth 3 with the display set to 1600x1200 and Full Screen Anti-Aliasing set to 2x no longer results in corruption being displayed when entering the Save game screen window
o Running the application There no longer results in segmentation violation occurring when Pbuffer is enabled in the application
o Selecting a Daytona single race in the game Nascar 2003 beta with OpenGL enabled no longer results in the system not responding.
o Running the OpenGl test found in Nascar 2003 Beta no longer results in the system not responding.
o Running the 3D Winbench 2000 v1.1 Quality test for Anisotropic and Linear Mipmap Anisotropic no longer reports the tests as Not Capable.
o The Windows 2000 display driver no longer requires two reboots of the system to load
o Connecting a TV and enabling the TV as a secondary CRT with the display set to 1024x768 16bpp no longer results in the DVD overlay not being displayed on either the CRT or the LCD
o The 3D Pipes (OpenGL) screen saver no longer renders incorrectly in preview mode when the display is set to 16bpp and FSAA is enabled
o Setting the display to 1024x768 32bpp and setting the TRUFORM option to Application Preference in the ATI OpenGL tab no longer results in the game Myth III not responding
o Switching between OTM Theatre Mode Settings in Clone Mode Options no longer results in the apply button not becoming active
o Setting the display to 1024x768 32bpp and enabling Anti-aliasing to 4x and running the game Harry Potter II no longer results in the system not responding

Download this driver bundle if you are having issues with your ATI product, including those mentioned above. ATI does not recommend unnecessary driver updates, when your graphics card is functioning properly.

[YeuEmMaiMai]

Originally posted by DSC
http://www.guru3d.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=47459



:eek: :D ;) :rolleyes:

Unwinder defeats the driver protections in ATi's drivers so easily..... :p

Keep those 9x00 mods going....

ATi built their cards to perform at a specific level for the price. I think it is great that ATi is doing everything that it can to prevent stoopid people from trying to mod their hardware and then when it does not work trying to return it as is what is currently happening with the 9500.


Since you are so smart why not explain to us why BOTH ATi and nVidia are moving to a seperate design for each product price point?

[DSC]

YeuEmMaiMai,

You're the idiot if you think no one will try to wring out every last bit of performance from their hardware. See Rage3d forums, plenty of people have done it. Oh well, fanATIcs..... :confused:

You probably can't understand what SOFTWARE MOD means either.

vamp: posted edited to make it more suitable

[Captain Beige]

Originally posted by DSC
YeuEmMaiMai,

You're the idiot if you think no one will try to wring out every last bit of performance from their hardware. See Rage3d forums, plenty of people have done it. Oh well, fanATIcs..... :confused:

You probably can't understand what SOFTWARE MOD means either.

Of course people will try to get the best from their hardware, if we didn't all know that YeuEmMaiMai wouldn't have said wat he did and ATI wouldn't be doing what they are :rolleyes:

vamp: another edit

[DaveW]

Whats next? introducing bugs for any 9700 NP owner who tries to overclock to 9700 Pro speeds?

[YeuEmMaiMai]

Vamp: Flame removed



1. Both ATi and Nvidia realise that we can overclock our hardware.

2. ATi did a little experiment with the 9X00 chip by using resistors to configure their hardware. Unfortunately for them it was soon discovered.

3. Ati and Nvidia had wanted to get away from using various designs of a core to using a single core that could be configured a variety of ways. This was done in hopes of REDUCING COSTS! Although the R300 is expensive to produce, IT IS MORE expensive to design several variations of the same chip.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND SO FAR?

4. Nvidia realised with the GF4 that there was really no need for the 4400 as people were NOT buying them but instead going for the 4200 and OC the crap out of it. So why do you think Nvidia no longer makes the 4400?

You see it is a company's job to make money and you do not make money by letting people abuse your hardware.


Originally posted by DSC
YeuEmMaiMai,

You're the idiot if you think no one will try to wring out every last bit of performance from their hardware. See Rage3d forums, plenty of people have done it. Oh well, fanATIcs..... :confused:

You probably can't understand what SOFTWARE MOD means either.

[Kev1]

The company that:

a) Allows a meaningful and stable overclock from stock speeds

b) Does not build hacks into drivers to stop me from doing above

c) Provides best price/performance ratio considering the above

d) Will play all new games excellently for 2yrs after purchase

That card will get my money. So far my GF3 Ti200 running at faster than GF3 Ti500 speeds for over a year has proven to be an excellent purchase :dance:

[vampireuk]

Guy's do not start pushing it with the flames. Anymore and I'm going to get p*ssed off, we are all adults here now lets conduct ourselves accordingly.

[saturnotaku]

Originally posted by YeuEmMaiMai
You see it is a company's job to make money and you do not make money by letting people abuse your hardware.

So then overclocking is abuse? Well, if you feel that way, you would probably best be served by removing the overclock on your machine and buy the processor that runs at the speed you're using right now without having to OC it.

Your system specs, from Rage3D:

ECS K76SA, Win 2K SP2,1024MB DDR2700 ram, AMD Athlon XP 1.8G (150*12), Radeon 9500Pro

[vampireuk]

Ed I give you permission to sing the teapot to kettle song:cool: :D

[digitalwanderer]

I don't approve. I get why they do it, but I don't like it. :(

[muzz]

Every piece of hardware is going to be modded to do things it wasn't intended to do( I've modded other things besides computers), and they will never match the highest parts anyhow because of the lower rated ram.....
I believe it go's both ways here.....
If the mod wasn't so ez then IMO they wouldn't have sold as many because that is one of the things that got the NV guys to try their gear in the first place....... jack up a 9500 and enjoy aa/af like the big boys at a fraction of the cost( not AS good obviously, but you get the point), of course it hurts them in a sense, but it also brings in business from enthusiasts who would NOT have tried their stuff in the 1st place.
They DO get additional sales they would NOT have gotten in the first place IMO... whether that be nvidia guys taking a shot, or Ati guys that didn't have the $ to buy a big dog, and was actually looking over at the nvidia camp just trying to get some raw speed... this enabled them to go ATi, and get a little benefit also.... if they are happy with their purchase, then MAYBE they will have a return customer also.
It go's both ways, and things like this have been done for eons..........

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by vampireuk
Guy's do not start pushing it with the flames. Anymore and I'm going to get p*ssed off, we are all adults here now lets conduct ourselves accordingly.

are you sure we're all adults here?

[MuFu]

Originally posted by DaveW
Whats next? introducing bugs for any 9700 NP owner who tries to overclock to 9700 Pro speeds?

They kind of do that anyway (through the BIOS).

I notice from your sig that you are running at 295MHz memory. If you have Samsung or Hynix RAM, flash your card with the 9700 Pro BIOS (the "Samsung DDR" one). There's a very good chance you'll see your overclock improve to 330+.

MuFu.

[Onde Pik]

I wouldnt belive much of what Guru3D claim. Here is a quote from their CEBIT article.


There's a lot of discussion whether it's the same core as the Radeon 9800 pro seems to be a beefed up 9700 Pro. ATI assured me of the fact that it really is a different core. We've seen driver hacks on the internet that magically turn your 9700 pro into a 9800 Pro. So that is a bunch of BS as from a hardware point of view it's simply not possible.


I assume he means ATI's statement is a bunch of BS. Well hacking your R9700 to run R9800 codepath and thereby getting the performance boosts that is implelemted in R9800 and not R9700 ATM does not mean that it is the same hardware. :rolleyes:

[vampireuk]

Originally posted by StealthHawk
are you sure we're all adults here?

Well I'm not too sure about Kiler;) :D

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by StealthHawk
are you sure we're all adults here?

I'm not!

If 36 years, a wife, and two kids can't get me to grow up I will be double-damned if'n I'll do it just for the sake of some forum! ;)

[UDawg]

Man how did I miss this thread?

Flibble Flibble Flibble Flibble every where.

LOL I just made Flibble a verb.

Vamp, you just need to put on your edits this


vamp: Flibbled :D

[Spotch]

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
I'm not!

If 36 years, a wife, and two kids can't get me to grow up I will be double-damned if'n I'll do it just for the sake of some forum! ;)

I just buy good stuff and use it these days. Overclocking a vid card to get an old piece of hardware to perform at acceptable levels in a particular game I can understand but to run your components at beyond specs just to go from 13000 3D marks to 13500 is really not useful. I suppose it can be some sort of thrill or bragging thing for some but I prefer to brag about my children rather than how I get 235 FPS in quake 3 instead of 200. As for you youngsters out there try putting the same effort in your school work and personal development. You will find you may have alot more to brag about later on with a solid education and a good character.

P.S.

Try 38, a wife and FOUR kids and your overclocking days may soon be over. ;)

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by Spotch
Try 38, a wife and FOUR kids and your overclocking days may soon be over. ;)

I'll be trying 38 next year, me birthday is in a few weeks so I won't be 36 long, and I am NOT having any more children! Aside from all the logistical nightmares, the Doc was kind enough to tie off me wife's tubes the last time she was in there pulling a kid out.

Oh, and I'm still not sure if I can anymore or not (http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33673632), me left one is still aching bad. :(

[Lezmaka]

Originally posted by Onde Pik
I wouldnt belive much of what Guru3D claim. Here is a quote from their CEBIT article.

:rolleyes:

You do realize that the person who makes RT and who posted the info about ati's "protection" is not the same person who wrote the cebit article, right?

ATI thought they could get away with using the same chip for 9500's and disabling some pipes and 1/2 the memory bus. But they rushed it and got caught. If they thought no one would figure out how to mod a 9500 into a 9700, then they were definately smoking something.

The only way to ensure people can't mod one version to another is if both are different chips. nvidia learned this, and now ati is.

[Akucaen]

ignore where the forum is & you'll see what all I hafta say about all this. (I agree w/ ATi on this.)


My views on the ATi softmod locking. (http://pub43.ezboard.com/fx3dfxfrm1.showMessage?topicID=14381.topic)

[madthumbs]

In general, the people that are against modding have money, and don't want the "have-nots" to have what they have. The people that don't have all that money make do with what they have. People buying the 9500 to mod took a risk. I took the risk and was lucky enough to almost break even on selling the first card I bought. If I had the money to begin with, I would have bought the 9700 pro, if not... I would have stayed with the GF4 ti 4400 that did 4600 speeds no problem. Because of the mod, ATI made money... not lost it! If not for the mod, I wouldn't have switched.

[saturnotaku]

Originally posted by madthumbs
If I had the money to begin with, I would have bought the 9700 pro, if not... I would have stayed with the GF4 ti 4400 that did 4600 speeds no problem. Because of the mod, ATI made money... not lost it! If not for the mod, I wouldn't have switched.

That's exactly what happened for me. Only difference is my old card was a Ti4600. ;)