PDA

View Full Version : Vistas lack of HAL great for Creative!


SwedX
03-26-07, 07:33 PM
Quote
" This turn of events begs the question: why did Microsoft omit the HAL from Vista? Some may argue it's a ploy to encourage developers and gamers to move over to the new breed of DirectX 10 games. But the more cynical among us may argue it was a joint ploy between Microsoft and Creative to squeeze more cash from sound-obsessed gamers "

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/gamesgear/0,39029441,49287112,00.htm

Can it be so bad really ?
I and many thougt that Vista was pretty bad for Creative but that may be far from the trouth apperently!

jolle
03-27-07, 05:11 AM
OpenAL becomes more important on Vista since the directSound is gone, so it was never really bad for creative.
The downside of the consumer is that older games using DS cant do thta anymore, but Creative has a wrapper for that now, ALchemy, that wraps DS to OpenAL.. doesnt work with every game yet (not tried it myself) but they´re working on adding more games as I understand it.
For newer games that already use OpenAL (which is alot of them) nothing changes on Vista.

SwedX
03-27-07, 05:29 AM
Yep I have read about that now..so in the end its pretty much best to go for an Creative card for Vista then ?

I mean so that way you are sure of to get EAX in the future if they will continue with it..I want the possible best and most compatibe souncard for future games with all effects and so on, so it seems Creative is the way to go same as it have allways been :)

RAY16
03-27-07, 02:03 PM
You know, the majority of DS3D games should still work with software positional audio in Vista, you'd just lack EAX effects. Not to mention all of the games that use the Miles Sound System or other software audio libraries.

SwedX
03-27-07, 04:45 PM
Okey thanks :)

nekrosoft13
04-02-07, 08:00 AM
You know, the majority of DS3D games should still work with software positional audio in Vista, you'd just lack EAX effects. Not to mention all of the games that use the Miles Sound System or other software audio libraries.

but also there is quite a big FPS decrease running DS3D in software mode.

currently X-Fi is the only logical choice for vista.

-Aerows-
04-02-07, 11:10 PM
but also there is quite a big FPS decrease running DS3D in software mode.

currently X-Fi is the only logical choice for vista.

Basically for a while now the only logical choice for a gamer period is the X-Fi, whether you are using Vista or XP. I swore I'd never get another Creative product, but the X-Fi changed my opinion of Creative. It is the first card that they have released in quite a while that actually does what it claims, and sounds great doing it.

crainger
04-02-07, 11:18 PM
Creative fans :hug: before the 'others' turn up. :D

Zelda_fan
04-02-07, 11:19 PM
read this and educate yourselves:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Audio_Architecture

UAA (what Vista uses) is superior to OpenAL and DirectSound. For the life of me I do not understand WHY the enthusiast community refuses to acknowledge this. Maybe you just enjoy paying $200 for an overpriced creative sound card.

Zelda_fan
04-02-07, 11:22 PM
here is some more educational material for you creative fanboys

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/audio/default.mspx

Zelda_fan
04-02-07, 11:25 PM
some educational material on how to produce DSP effects in Vista useing UAA

http://download.microsoft.com/download/9/c/5/9c5b2167-8017-4bae-9fde-d599bac8184a/sysfx.doc

^^^This stuff goes ABOVE AND BEYOND anything the X-Fi can do. And if creative was smart, they'd write drivers that allow the X-Fi's DSP to ACCELERATE these functions, not work against it.

Sazar
04-02-07, 11:28 PM
Did I mention I LOVE per application volume control in Vista :cool:

Zelda_fan
04-02-07, 11:35 PM
Did I mention I LOVE per application volume control in Vista :cool:

Here's some more great audio features in Vista that the Creative fanboys don't want you to know about:

http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/windowsvista/articles/450038.aspx

Blacklash
04-03-07, 12:16 AM
Thanks for those links Zelda_fan. I like Vista's new sound stack myself.

crainger
04-03-07, 06:48 AM
I like all Sound Stacks! Bigger the better! I also like Bluetooth stacks, but thats another story.

SwedX
04-03-07, 08:07 AM
Great thanks man..so now I dont need to buy any more overpriced Creative products :D

Thats really nice!

Zelda_fan
04-03-07, 04:36 PM
Great thanks man..so now I dont need to buy any more overpriced Creative products :D

Thats really nice!

well, sort of. The thing is, if you stick with the integrated audio or a cheap audio solution, all the DSP effects will be done in software thus using up some CPU cycles.

So ideally, you would want a sound card that has a DSP which is compatible with the UAA architecture. That way all the DSP effects would be handled by the sound card. Unfortunately, Creative has decided that their entire line of sound cards will not support the DSP effects on UAA.

Boggles the mind... you'd think for $200 a sound card creative would owe their customers better than that.

SwedX
04-03-07, 05:08 PM
Ahh yepp thats true and we dont want to have the DSP effects in CPU ouch!
So no DSP effect with UAA for Creative, that really sucks as you say hmm and a card for that price I shiver!

RAY16
04-03-07, 08:44 PM
With the processing power we have today (especially if you're a rich freak with a Quad Core rig) I seriously doubt software DSP effects would do much to performance.

grey_1
04-03-07, 09:26 PM
Some good info Zelda_fan, thanks. I'll be reading up on this soon, I think I've been cheating myself.

Zelda_fan
04-03-07, 09:37 PM
it'll take a while before games start supporting it, but it would make sense that all DX10 games from here on out will be developing the sound engine primarily based on UAA.

RAY16
04-03-07, 10:24 PM
I think I've read that Crysis uses a software audio system, maybe it takes advantage of UAA.