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UDawg
03-19-03, 02:46 PM
This is how messed up the great state of Washington is.
:confused:



State House passes anti-terrorism bill
03/19/2003

Associated Press


OLYMPIA, Wash. - The state House passed an anti-terrorism bill a few minutes before midnight on Tuesday, sidestepping a fight over gun control that had threatened to stall the measure.

Requested by Gov. Gary Locke and Attorney General Christine O. Gregoire, House Bill 1210 would create six new terrorism-related crimes, including possession of a weapon of mass destruction, making terrorist threats, and providing material support to terrorists.

The measure was sent to the Senate on a 77-20 vote.

"This is very important legislation, especially in light of the fact we might be at war tomorrow," said Rep. Al O'Brien, D-Mountlake Terrace. "We might be living in a whole new environment. We'll wait and see." A standoff developed last week when Rep. Jeannie Darneille, D-Tacoma, introduced an amendment to include firearms as weapons of mass destruction .:confused: In response, Rep. Jim Buck, R-Joyce, introduced an amendment specifically excluding firearms from the list.

Both lawmakers agreed to drop their amendments, but Darneille remained dissatisfied.

She said anti-terrorism laws such as the measure the House passed Tuesday restrict freedom while doing little to make people safer.

"Throughout our country's history, the need for security has been used as a pretext for violation of civil rights," Darneille said Tuesday. "This wave of anti-terrorism actions, all in the name of national security, has launched the most serious civil rights crisis our nation has ever seen." Civil liberties groups and defense lawyers oppose the bill, saying it's redundant and could impose overly harsh penalties for some crimes.

Buck argued that the bill would protect residents against threats that people never imagined before the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

Current state law is inadequate to deal with people who would use airplanes or tanker trucks as bombs or would send white powder in the mail to scare others into thinking it's anthrax, he said.

"We lived in a much more innocent world," Buck said.

Buck mentioned the discovery of six envelopes containing white powder which turned out to be farina, a type of ground wheat, on Monday in Seattle. Some of the envelopes also contained anti-war messages.

"The best we could probably do is come up with malicious harassment" for whoever planted the powder, Buck said.

A similar bill passed the House last year but with provisions for the death penalty in some cases and to allow the use of federal wiretap evidence. Civil libertarians in the Senate - especially then-Judiciary Chairman Adam Kline, D-Seattle, balked, and the bill died.

Federal law allows the taping of telephone conversations with the consent of anyone on the line. State law requires the consent of all parties to the conversation.

This year's bill doesn't contain the wiretapping or death penalty provisions.

In addition, control of the state Senate has switched to Republicans, so the bill stands a much better chance this time.

t6_shadow
03-19-03, 04:39 PM
Anyone who is against the ownership of firearms by civilians is a complete ****ing moron. Period. Criminals will use illegally obtained weapons to commit crimes. Why make it so hard for people to defend themselves?

LORD-eX-Bu
03-19-03, 04:58 PM
poor poor idiot, trying to take my weapons of mass destruction away, NEVER! I'd like to see them try to take my firearms away:firedevil

1stFlight
03-19-03, 05:09 PM
It'll be interesting to see this get past the 2nd Amendment. As for criminals, hell they use illegal weapons all the, I don't see this making much difference. Except more die by firearms than are defended by them.

Originally posted by t6_shadow
Anyone who is against the ownership of firearms by civilians is a complete ****ing moron. Period. Criminals will use illegally obtained weapons to commit crimes. Why make it so hard for people to defend themselves?

UDawg
03-19-03, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by [eNv]-LORD-eX-Bu
poor poor idiot, trying to take my weapons of mass destruction away, NEVER! I'd like to see them try to take my firearms away:firedevil

No.

I'm sorry you can not have the gun but I will freely give you the bullet....if your fast enough. :D

LORD-eX-Bu
03-19-03, 05:20 PM
I prefer 7.62 full metal jacket over 5.56mm rounds being used in M4:p

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?s=&postid=86848

5.56 doesn't have much stopping power, 7.62 is a nice fight stopper, and over long distances it will still deliver a powerful blow unlike our little 5.56mm friend:p

UDawg
03-19-03, 05:39 PM
I got a Marlin 336 and a Winchester 20 guage. That 20 guage is awesome. My hunting buddies used to make fun of me because it was a single shot 20 guage. They used to say "nice lil' pop gun buddy, ya goin' wabbit huntin'" Then I let them use it while phesant hunting. It was all over. All but 2 had a 20 guage for phesant hunting after that. It is a perfect gun for that bird. In other words it is light with a good range and it don't blow the bird apart. ;) Haven't shot it in 10 years tho.

LORD-eX-Bu
03-19-03, 05:52 PM
7.62mm all the way, birds or taliban, still gets the job done:D I guess it all comes down to whether or not you like mashed fowl:p

you should try hunting with a dillinger since you love the 20 gauge:p

sbp
03-20-03, 05:56 AM
Any excuce to grab people's guns. :bleh:

UDawg
03-20-03, 10:23 AM
Good to see all the supporters all have American flag avatars. If you support the troops and are in the UK a nice Union Jack avatar would be cool.

Thanks Brits for your support. America owes you big time. We won't forget get this. :)

vampireuk
03-20-03, 11:33 AM
I think Mr Flibble sums up more than the Union Jack could. He is currently in Iraq with a small penguin sized grenade to hand personall to Saddam:D

UDawg
03-20-03, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by vampireuk
I think Mr Flibble sums up more than the Union Jack could. He is currently in Iraq with a small penguin sized grenade to hand personall to Saddam:D

Ahhhh! but what a punch it packs! :rw:

ASCI Blue
03-20-03, 07:55 PM
7.62 is for sissies. .50 BMG is the only way to kill your enemy or protect your home. :firedevil:

An interesting technogoodie the Army didn't tell me..bastard.


In case I haven’t made this abundantly clear, 5.56mm ball ammo is not the same as commercial .223. Early on in the Viet Nam war, it was thought that the devastating wounds caused by M-16s was due to the bullets’ tumbling effect. Now it is understood that the large permanent wound cavity is caused by bullet fragmentation. Fackler showed that M193 ball and M855 ball are similar to each other in their capacity to fragment and destroy human tissue. OTOH, U.S. 7.62mm NATO (M80 ball) does NOT fragment, and is not as destructive in human tissue. I’m NOT saying that 5.56mm M193 ball and M855 ball is superior to .308 softpoints. I AM saying that the terminal wound ballistics of 5.56mm M193 ball and M855 ball is superior to U.S. 7.62mm M80 ball.


Looks like that the 5.56 is a better person killer round than the 7.62.

LORD-eX-Bu
03-20-03, 08:20 PM
Check this (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1986/MVT.htm) out. Pretty good comparison between the two. This is what sticks out to me the most tho:

new tecnological developments in body armor may soon
defeat the penetration capability of the small 5.56mm. New
developments in optical sighting equipment will soon increase
battlefield engagement ranges and thereby exceed the long range
accuracy capability of the smaller 5.56mm. The large case and
projectile of the 7.62mm, however, are more than sufficient to
accept significant improvements in penetration, lethality, and
long range performance.

5.56 standard is by no means bad. I just beleive that the 7.62mm has alot more room for improvement and potential than the 5.56 standard. And seeing how The 7.62 x 51mm NATO has not been improved or modified since its adoption by NATO in 1953, it still peforms very well even today ;) Throw some money at it, and it will definately outperform any 5.56 round out there:D

EDIT: By the way, the round I am holding is only 7.62x 39mm. I mainly use it with my Russian SKS ;)

t6_shadow
03-21-03, 01:55 AM
It doesn't really make a differance 5.56 or 7.62. The are forces are using standard ball ammo anyways. WTF is that? These rounds are meant to kill people bust out the hollow points already.

Regardless it won't matter. Bullet PLACEMENT is everthing. Head or bust I always say. If you watch the documentary from blackhawk down. It has the delta guys that were there. They talk about shooting people with the .50 cal and watching them run and/or return fire. Now sure they probably died shorty after but still returning fire it still returing fire.

Also nations changed from the .45 cal to the 9mm pistol rounds to make politicians happy. Another mistake to make hippies happy that ****ed our troops in the ass. Will it ever end?

LORD-eX-Bu
03-21-03, 02:01 AM
its not just killing T6, its stopping power. 5.56 is pretty powerful at close ranges, but even in that Somolia incident Rangers reported having Somali militia returning fire even after being hit due to the lack of stopping power from the 5.56mm round. You can't exactly lug a .50 cal around everywhere and blast like its a M16 or MP5. Those types of guns are usually pretty large and consume ammunition rather quickly. The 5.56mm is great, but it can do better. 7.62mm standard has remained unchanged for decades and still fares very well. Due to its design, there is much more room for improvement than in 5.56mm. With the shifting face of the battlefield 5.56mm will become very limited in its adaptability in a short period of time;)

de><ta
03-21-03, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by [eNv]-LORD-eX-Bu
...You can't exactly lug a .50 cal around everywhere and blast like its a M16 or MP5. Those types of guns are usually pretty large and consume ammunition rather quickly...

ok, so can i keep this (http://securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/1300/1391.htm) one then daddy?:lol:

tis jus a teeny lil pea shooter.

LORD-eX-Bu
03-21-03, 02:33 PM
rofl. You know you like UDawg's 20 gauge:p

UDawg
03-21-03, 03:19 PM
My 336 is up for sale if anyone wants it.

LOL leave my lil" pop gun alone. :p

UDawg
03-21-03, 04:27 PM
Here is my little boy. Very nice brush gun.

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/images/firearmImages/336A.jpg

Caliber: 30/30 Win.

Capacity: 6-shot tubular magazine

Action: Lever action; side ejection; solid top receiver; deeply blued metal surfaces; hammer block safety.

Stock: Walnut finished cut-checkered hardwood with pistol grip; tough Mar-Shield® finish; swivel studs; hard rubber butt plate; blued steel fore-end cap.

Barrel: 20" with Micro-Groove® rifling (12 grooves).

Twist Rate: 1:10" r.h.

Sights: Screw-adjustable open rear, brass bead front sight with Wide-Scan™ hood. Solid top receiver tapped for scope mount; offset hammer spur (right or left hand) for scope use.

Overall Length: 38.25"

Weight: 7 lbs.

LORD-eX-Bu
03-21-03, 04:39 PM
here is my little friend;)

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?s=&postid=91454

Weight: DC-9: 3.1 lbs (1.4 kg.)
Caliber: 9mm Parabellum
Barrel Length: DC-9: 5 inches (12.7 cm.)
Total Length: DC-9: 12 inches (31.75 cm.)
Action: Single Action.
Mode of Fire: Rapid Fire
Range: 165 ft (50 m)
Magazine: 20 or 30 rounds with factory magazines and up to 50 rounds with aftermarket magazines
Made in United States

UDawg
03-21-03, 04:51 PM
Ok, now I was a hunter of ANIMALS!!! Not people.

LMAO :D :p ;)

joltcola
03-23-03, 04:05 PM
12 Gauge Remington Shotgun /w choke ( puts the pellets into a tighter pattern if wondering )

Haven't used it in awhile, but in great condition. I should go out again, im not a big hunter, but shooting targets, and such is fun. I use it for protection , and haven't had to fire it at people yet, and rather not. But, this country and its laws, should allow the law-abiding to carry a weapon, either for protection or for sport. Not the slow removal of our rights.

my 2 cents


-- jolt