Nvidia: Understatement of the year winner!

[8800gtsfan]

"We Underestimated Necessary Resources for Vista Driver Development."

Source: http://xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20070412224213.html

"I can assure you and your readers that our first priority right now is not performance, not anything else; it is stability and all the features supported on Vista."

Wow, it's like Vista's release was a suprise to them. :( Just something that happened and shipped over a long weekend.

[Banko]

This is the first time NVidia really lost the driver ball, ATi/AMD is kicking their ass in the vista dept.

[grey_1]

Not quite a day late and a dollar short, but close. :p

[Skinner]

This is the first time NVidia really lost the driver ball, ATi/AMD is kicking their ass in the vista dept.

Well I talked with a guy from Club3d and R600's drivers arn't flawnessly either.
He had 4 sytems running in Vista, 2 NV based and 2 ATI. And the latter ones needed several reboots to run a weekend (demo's a guess) whereas thje NV ones ran without problems.

I think we under estimate the complexiness and difficulties of Vista drivercoding esp. towards the 8800 GTX. MS made it hard to code according some vendors.

And don't forget ATI haven't shown the R600 yet and can work on the drivers in the "shadow".

I'm not defending NV bot I cann't imagine they would just quiting their driverskills..

I think it will come along nicely over the next months.

[Ancient]

This is the first time NVidia really lost the driver ball, ATi/AMD is kicking their ass in the vista dept.
Tell that to all the ATi users that are having problems in Vista.

Anyway, the first step towards correcting a problem is realizing you have one so if what they claim is true, NVIDIA is on the road to recovery in the driver department. It's also, as you mentioned, the first time they've dropped the ball in that regard so I will continue to give them the benefit of the doubt...for about another month or so. If they don't have the problems fixed by the time the R600 is released and ATi does have solid drivers by then, I'll be jumping ship.

[Riptide]

Yeah what Ancient says.

+1

[Capt. Picard]

Tell that to all the ATi users that are having problems in Vista.

Anyway, the first step towards correcting a problem is realizing you have one so if what they claim is true, NVIDIA is on the road to recovery in the driver department. It's also, as you mentioned, the first time they've dropped the ball in that regard so I will continue to give them the benefit of the doubt...for about another month or so. If they don't have the problems fixed by the time the R600 is released and ATi does have solid drivers by then, I'll be jumping ship.

If you've got the money to jump ship, by all means. Some of us' loyalty however isn't founded in, well ... loyalty.

[Sazar]

Tell that to all the ATi users that are having problems in Vista.

Anyway, the first step towards correcting a problem is realizing you have one so if what they claim is true, NVIDIA is on the road to recovery in the driver department. It's also, as you mentioned, the first time they've dropped the ball in that regard so I will continue to give them the benefit of the doubt...for about another month or so. If they don't have the problems fixed by the time the R600 is released and ATi does have solid drivers by then, I'll be jumping ship.

What issues besides the initial bsod with the 7.3's that has since been fixed?

Many are users issues.

7.3's primary issue was a start-up service bug that had a hot-fix almost immediately. It works and is solid.

Wrt Nvidia, there are certainly stability issues across the board vis-a-vis AMD's "issues"

[RejZoR]

Well, apart from more frequent Vista driver updates i really don't miss anything atm. Performance of the games is EXACTLY the same as on Windows XP. Be it CS:S, NFS:C, Tiberium Wars, Crashday, Unreal 2, Age of Mythology Xpansion, Oblivion, World Racing, C&C Generals, NFS:MW or Doom 3. Hell, even old H&D Deluxe and Deadhunt work properly. Only games where i found slightly slower graphics than on XP were Call of Duty 2 and Tomb Raider: Legend (using Enhanced shaders). FSAA, AF and TAA work properly in all games, performance is very decent and i can't really remember any stability problems at all.
Judging from my description i really can't complain at all. Hell, i'm very happy with NVIDIA!

[Riptide]

I've only been playing source engine games (primarily CSS) and haven't seen any stability issues w/my system. But then again I haven't loaded much else. What I'm growing impatient for is proper SLI support.

[Slammin]

Why another BASH thread?

I mean, to read that SOMEONE ELSE is having issues is enough to prompt even more whining threads?

I'm running Vista64 Ultimate and right now, the only time I boot to XP is to load a new profile for my Thrustmaster Cougar since TM hasn't produced and 64bit drivers yet.

Sure, for some, at least me, I take about a 10fps hit running Vista as opposed to XP, but I overclock to make up for that so it's a non-issue.

Granted, I can understand that some have probs getting things to run, but for me, and man, I think I run some pretty serious stuffs, I really cannot complain. But again, I do dual boot, as should anyone that was previously running XP, but wants to run Vista.

All in all, and again, not trying to say with 100% certainty that this is a disguised whine thread, but as far as Vista64, I'm happy. As for as performance, I've adapted (overclocked video). Then again, what I can also say is that if you are running Vista on something that struggled on XP, you are going to be dissapointed. This is not nVidia's fault.

Eat that. Or:
That's just my 2c

Gah

[$n][pErMan]

I have had 0 problems to date with my 8800 GTX and vista when using the 100.65 drive set. Really a solid release IMO. I had more problems with my GTX in XP than in Vista... lol. Although from what I have been reading most the issues appear to be SLi issues anyway (no surprise... it barely worked in XP).

[8800gtsfan]

Why another BASH thread?

I mean, to read that SOMEONE ELSE is having issues is enough to prompt even more whining threads?

I'm running Vista64 Ultimate and right now, the only time I boot to XP is to load a new profile for my Thrustmaster Cougar since TM hasn't produced and 64bit drivers yet.

Sure, for some, at least me, I take about a 10fps hit running Vista as opposed to XP, but I overclock to make up for that so it's a non-issue.

Granted, I can understand that some have probs getting things to run, but for me, and man, I think I run some pretty serious stuffs, I really cannot complain. But again, I do dual boot, as should anyone that was previously running XP, but wants to run Vista.

All in all, and again, not trying to say with 100% certainty that this is a disguised whine thread, but as far as Vista64, I'm happy. As for as performance, I've adapted (overclocked video). Then again, what I can also say is that if you are running Vista on something that struggled on XP, you are going to be dissapointed. This is not nVidia's fault.

Eat that. Or:
That's just my 2c

Gah


Who is whining? Its a thread that has a link to an article where Nvidia admitted to not being ready for Vista. Speculation and truth are two utterly different beasts.

[ikjadoon]

How the f*ck can you underestimate drivers for your product on a new OS that will sooner or later be upon millions of computers? Just how the hell do you do that?

I just don't see how this entire fiasco is actually possible. Hasn't nVidia been planning DX10 for quite some time? Hasn't nVidia been able to use Vista for as long or most likely longer than we have? Didn't nVidia know that DX10 would be 'released' with Vista? I know they were working on it, but did they not expect this huge and negative customer response?

This entire ordeal would be SO much less publicized and attacked if they hadn't released G80 with Vista.

~Ibrahim~

[Slammin]

How the f*ck can you underestimate drivers for your product on a new OS that will sooner or later be upon millions of computers? Just how the hell do you do that?

I just don't see how this entire fiasco is actually possible. Hasn't nVidia been planning DX10 for quite some time? Hasn't nVidia been able to use Vista for as long or most likely longer than we have? Didn't nVidia know that DX10 would be 'released' with Vista? I know they were working on it, but did they not expect this huge and negative customer response?

This entire ordeal would be SO much less publicized and attacked if they hadn't released G80 with Vista.

~Ibrahim~


Since this is your first post in this thread, and since you are used to the language, what the HELL are you on about?

Are you saying that nVidia should not have released G80? Are you saying that all this hoopla is about not being able to play DX10 games?

Really, what exactly are you getting at here?


My case IN POINT. And I won't even mention anything else, like your post count; where did you come from anyway? Need help with anything?

Whiner thread.

Should be locked as no good or useful info will happen here.

[XxDeadlyxX]

They better damn make DV work.. that's a 'feature' :rolleyes:

[ikjadoon]

Since this is your first post in this thread, and since you are used to the language, what the HELL are you on about?

Are you saying that nVidia should not have released G80? Are you saying that all this hoopla is about not being able to play DX10 games?

Really, what exactly are you getting at here?


My case IN POINT. And I won't even mention anything else, like your post count; where did you come from anyway? Need help with anything?

Whiner thread.

Should be locked as no good or useful info will happen here.


I think you might have misunderstood me. I'm wondering how nVidia could have possibly gotten behind on this, of all things.

No. I meant that this bad/unstable/feature-missing (DV??) driver issue might not have been such an ordeal for nVidia if they hadn't released G80 at the same time. I say this because a majority of users who are going to getting the 'bleeding edge' of GPUs, why not get the 'bleeding edge' of operating systems? This is a wide generalization, of course, but I think it has quite some merit. I'm sure those users with pre-G80 cards are having plenty of trouble with Vista, too, but G80 is DX10. DX10 is with Vista. I'm not saying they are less important, hell I was a Ti 4600 user until 3 weeks ago.

I don't recall mentioning the amount of or lack of DX10 games...

In summary: how could nVidia fall behind on the drivers for Vista? They are quite a sizable corporation, they've had as much time (most likely more) than what we've had with Vista.

Anyways, they aren't doing too bad now. I think the WHQL-version of the 101.71 drivers should be the first really perfection-close drivers.

~Ibrahim~

[Slammin]

I think you might have misunderstood me. I'm wondering how nVidia could have possibly gotten behind on this, of all things.

No. I meant that this bad/unstable/feature-missing (DV??) driver issue might not have been such an ordeal for nVidia if they hadn't released G80 at the same time. I say this because a majority of users who are going to getting the 'bleeding edge' of GPUs, why not get the 'bleeding edge' of operating systems? This is a wide generalization, of course, but I think it has quite some merit. I'm sure those users with pre-G80 cards are having plenty of trouble with Vista, too, but G80 is DX10. DX10 is with Vista. I'm not saying they are less important, hell I was a Ti 4600 user until 3 weeks ago.

I don't recall mentioning the amount of or lack of DX10 games...

In summary: how could nVidia fall behind on the drivers for Vista? They are quite a sizable corporation, they've had as much time (most likely more) than what we've had with Vista.

Anyways, they aren't doing too bad now. I think the WHQL-version of the 101.71 drivers should be the first really perfection-close drivers.

~Ibrahim~


Lost me for the most part, though I do gather that you think nVidia is behind the curve with Vista, since they released the G80 at the same time MS released Vista, according to you?

I'll let everyone else correct you there.

You said:
"but G80 is DX10. DX10 is with Vista."

Your point? Again?


You said:
"In summary: how could nVidia fall behind on the drivers for Vista? "

If I had more time, I would really try to engage you in a grown-up type of convo, but I got dinner on the stove and I don't want to burn it.

Later....

[Amuro]

How the f*ck can you underestimate drivers for your product on a new OS that will sooner or later be upon millions of computers? Just how the hell do you do that?

I just don't see how this entire fiasco is actually possible. Hasn't nVidia been planning DX10 for quite some time? Hasn't nVidia been able to use Vista for as long or most likely longer than we have? Didn't nVidia know that DX10 would be 'released' with Vista? I know they were working on it, but did they not expect this huge and negative customer response?

This entire ordeal would be SO much less publicized and attacked if they hadn't released G80 with Vista.
~Ibrahim~

They indeed hadn't. G80 was released 3 months ahead of Vista.

[ikjadoon]

OK, let me say it ONE more time. How could nVidia get behind on the next revolution in gaming so quickly? I'm just rather surprised...And why did it take so long for an 'apology'? True, I'd rather have them making me my drivers than writing apologies..

Yeah, Numb3rs was on. Sorry I couldn't reply earlier.

3 months. Dang, I thought it was like 1-1.5 months. That was a stupid mistake, my bad. I'll let that point go, somewhat.

If nVidia was going to release G80 AROUND THE SAME TIME as Vista, why wouldn't they prepare some nice drivers for it, in time? Not drivers for DX10 games, but Vista drivers for DX9 games being run on a DX10 card.

~Ibrahim~

[Ancient]

What issues besides the initial bsod with the 7.3's that has since been fixed?

Many are users issues.

7.3's primary issue was a start-up service bug that had a hot-fix almost immediately. It works and is solid.

Wrt Nvidia, there are certainly stability issues across the board vis-a-vis AMD's "issues"
There are HDTV resolution issues, HDCP issues, overscan correction, overlay doesn't work properly for some, CCC doesn't work properly on occassion, and there are compatibility problems with PowerDVD Ultra. Those aren't user issues, they are driver problems.

For some people the ATi drivers work great. For me the NVIDIA drivers have been great. My only gripe is that they haven't fixed overscan correction yet. Other than that I haven't had a problem with any game besides Dark Messiah on my 8800GTS.

There's also the fact that ATi is coding drivers for a mature hardware architecture that they're familiar with, even if it does involve a new software driver architecture in Vista. NVIDIA has to code for a new hardware and software architecture.

When given the choice of having a high-performance card that is available but has some driver issues, or one I can't buy until 6 months later because they are supposedly holding it back to polish the drivers, I'll suffer with the driver issues. ymmv. When ATi releases the R600, then the driver comparison can be made. Until then it's comparing the proverbial apples and oranges.

[jAkUp]

When given the choice of having a high-performance card that is available but has some driver issues, or one I can't buy until 6 months later because they are supposedly holding it back to polish the drivers, I'll suffer with the driver issues.

QFT

[Sazar]

There are HDTV resolution issues, HDCP issues, overscan correction, overlay doesn't work properly for some, CCC doesn't work properly on occassion, and there are compatibility problems with PowerDVD Ultra. Those aren't user issues, they are driver problems.

For some people the ATi drivers work great. For me the NVIDIA drivers have been great. My only gripe is that they haven't fixed overscan correction yet. Other than that I haven't had a problem with any game besides Dark Messiah on my 8800GTS.

There's also the fact that ATi is coding drivers for a mature hardware architecture that they're familiar with, even if it does involve a new software driver architecture in Vista. NVIDIA has to code for a new hardware and software architecture.

When given the choice of having a high-performance card that is available but has some driver issues, or one I can't buy until 6 months later because they are supposedly holding it back to polish the drivers, I'll suffer with the driver issues. ymmv. When ATi releases the R600, then the driver comparison can be made. Until then it's comparing the proverbial apples and oranges.

Are you suggesting that there are no issues with non g80 series products?

[ikjadoon]

Are you suggesting that there are no issues with non g80 series products?

No, I think he means that while ATI 'just' has to make a Vista driver, nVidia has to make a Vista driver that will work properly with a brand-new architecture.

I would say many issues that are regarded as G80 on Vista issues also are Pre-G80 on Vista issues as well.

~Ibrahim~