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View Full Version : Which CPU to get, 45nm C2D or a 65nm Q6600, regarding temperature


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zerobeta
05-15-07, 06:01 PM
Hello

I am thinking of a cpu to upgrade to, and decided the choise will be between an upcoming C2D E6850 or a Quad Q6600 since both will cost the same in a few months, as it seems now.

Now I need to decide wether to be future proof if you may, four cores for future games that will probebly make use of them, or 2 cores which some may think is a better choice right now.
I have decided a quad for me, sicne it will perform about the same as a dual core cpu with games right now, and I assume games will take use of it in the future so by then it will be better than a dual core cpu.

Now the other decision is regarding the heat and power consumption,
A 65nm Q6600 has a TDP of 105W
A 65nm E6600 has a TDP of 65W
A 45nm E6850 will probebly have a similar TDP of an E6600 or less, but probebly not more.

I found out the TDP of my current P4 3GHZ is around 82W

The Q6600's TDP is quite higher than my current P4 cpu, which already runs pretty hot with decent cooling, gets up to 62 degrees in summer while gaming, and I definitely do not want my Q6600 to get any higher than that

What I want to understand is, if I will get a Q6600 (will be a whole new computer since my old one does not supprts new cpus), will its higher TDP of 105W translate to temperature higher than 62C?

If so, what is the maximum temperature do you speculate it will reach, and what is the maximum 'recommended' temperature for the Q6600?.

I do want to be ready for future games, but it seems it will cost me with this cpu running at a pretty high temperature, even higher than my current cpu.

I don't think a 45nm Quad is an option since the price will surely be high and I can't wait long until it will drop... so either a c2d or a q6600 in end of this year.

Help me understand and by that help me choose my next cpu.

Thanks for the help.

buffbiff21
05-15-07, 06:06 PM
TDP = irrelevant.

Adjust voltage and clocks and you've already broken it.

Get an E6600. Same core as an E6850.

Regarding temperature, wait for 45nm for a quad core, no questions asked. Q6600 and 6700/6800 are two Conroes underneath an integrated heatspreader. That's basically twice the heat.

zerobeta
05-15-07, 06:14 PM
So is there a way to find out the temperature of a Q6600 in gaming, or maby someone tested it? How can I know if will it run hotter than my current cpu?
I know an E6600 will run cooler but not sure about the quad...

I don't know what you mean about voltage and clocks, I buy a cpu and not touch it, not overclock etc, just run it at its default speed.

I want either a E6850 (higher bus, high clock speed than E6600, same money)
Or a Q6600 which becomes an option since the price drop.

As I wrote I can't wait for a 45nm quad since the high price and it will drop off only when newer cpus are out etc, I want to upgrade by end of the year.

So basically what I want to know is what will be the temperature of a Q6600 in my computer (and maximum 'recommended' temperature) ... that will be my last call for choosing between the 2 cpus. Thank you

buffbiff21
05-15-07, 06:26 PM
So is there a way to find out the temperature of a Q6600 in gaming, or maby someone tested it?
Coretemp, intel thermal analysis tool, nvidia monitor, MBM5... there are endless applications whichi you can monitor your CPU's temperature.

I don't know what you mean about voltage and clocks, I buy a cpu and not touch it, not overclock etc, just run it at its default speed.
Hmm. You've got to be kidding. You can adjust the voltage and clock speed.. all of this is adjusted by going into your motherboard's BIOS and tweaking the numbers. It is quite a simple process.

I want either a E6850 (higher bus, high clock speed than E6600, same money)
Or a Q6600 which becomes an option since the price drop.

E6850 uses Conroe core... they only adjusted the BSEL to make the mobo read it at 1333 FSB stock.

So basically what I want to know is what will be the temperature of a Q6600 in my computer (and maximum 'recommended' temperature) ... that will be my last call for choosing between the 2 cpus. Thank you
Intel's own datasheet on the QX6700 specifies a maximum case temperature of 64.5c
http://download.intel.com/design/processor/datashts/31559202.pdf

zerobeta
05-15-07, 07:39 PM
About your previous post, how can the TDP be irrelevant? It is the maximum amount of power the cpu is required to dissipate, so higher number translates to more heat, no?

Coretemp, intel thermal analysis tool, nvidia monitor, MBM5... there are endless applications whichi you can monitor your CPU's temperature.

I meant is there a way I can find out the temperature of a Q6600 running a game, without buying the cpu and checking, I assume I can find out only from someone who own the cpu...

Hmm. You've got to be kidding. You can adjust the voltage and clock speed.. all of this is adjusted by going into your motherboard's BIOS and tweaking the numbers. It is quite a simple process.

I never changed any voltaged or clock speeds on my current cpu, because I do not have knowledge in it, nor I want to change the clock speed of my next cpu, I want it to work at its default speed, not slower or faster.
I heard newer intel cpus automatically clock down when they do not run demanding applications, this sounds good enough for me...

E6850 uses Conroe core... they only adjusted the BSEL to make the mobo read it at 1333 FSB stock.

I am sorry, I do not understand much in cpus, just that the upcoming c2d cpus will be better than the current c2d, higher bus, clock speed and better nanometer technology.

Intel's own datasheet on the QX6700 specifies a maximum case temperature of 64.5c
download.intel.com/design/processor/datashts/31559202.pdf

What are 105W and what are 130W processors?

Let me see if I understand this right, that table (26) shows me that if the cpu uses 130watts, its temperature will not exceed 64.5 degrees?
shouldn't it also matter what kind of case/airflow you have?

Also can it be that the cpu will use more than 130W when used for applications and gaming? (130W is the highest number in the chart)

Excure my lack of knowledge... I posted here in order to get an answer to my main question, maby best from one who owns the q6600, but if I learn more things along the way it is even better.

buffbiff21
05-15-07, 07:51 PM
About your previous post, how can the TDP be irrelevant? It is the maximum amount of power the cpu is required to dissipate, so higher number translates to more heat, no?
Intel rates TDP for the "average user"... many of us on these forums are not "average users." We can adjust voltage and TDP is no longer valid or accurate.


I meant is there a way I can find out the temperature of a Q6600 running a game, without buying the cpu and checking, I assume I can find out only from someone who own the cpu...
CPUs run at different temperatures when they are idle or under load. The circuits heat up when they are active.



I heard newer intel cpus automatically clock down when they do not run demanding applications, this sounds good enough for me...
Throttling? Many laptop CPUs do this. It's to conserve energy use and thus reduce heat.


I am sorry, I do not understand much in cpus, just that the upcoming c2d cpus will be better than the current c2d, higher bus, clock speed and better nanometer technology.
Yes, at stock. But a current CPU overclocked can prove to be better than something down the line.


shouldn't it also matter what kind of case/airflow you have?
No, not for power consumption. Watts are heat, but airflow has nothing to do with how much energy the processor draws from the power supply/wall. The CPU will get hot if you pump a certain amount of voltage into it. You can just lower the voltage and run some stability tests to lower temps. Of course airflow will lower the temperature of the CPU, but it will not change power consumption. Voltage will.


Excure my lack of knowledge... I posted here in order to get an answer to my main question, maby best from one who owns the q6600, but if I learn more things along the way it is even better.
Well, I have an E6600, not a Q. but the Q6600s run about 40 degrees C idle with 1.25 vcore... here is an article that will help you a little:

http://www.behardware.com/articles/651-2/intel-core-2-quad-q6600.html

kevJ420
05-15-07, 07:56 PM
The newest E6600's run hotter.

If heat is the only concern then just get a Q6600, arctic silver, a really good hsf, and undervolt it like .1V

Slammin
05-15-07, 07:58 PM
For the price, get the quad. Since you are not going to overclock, temps shouldn't be a problem at all, but if you do happen to have very poor case airflow, you can always address that by fixing your case airflow, or getting a better HSF for the CPU. At worse, you most likely won't even get anywhere near to any temps that should alarm you, especially since you are not going to overclock.

As another thread here says, something to the fact that "Intel wants everyone to run Quads". Well, looking at the future prices, especially compared to equally clocked duals, I'd say that is true. So even if you don't have any applications that can specifically use all four cores, if you are not going to overclock, heat won't be an issue, so why not get a more future proof cpu? The OS certainly can use all 4 cores, but when an app can, man, smoking fast!

zerobeta
05-15-07, 08:03 PM
I assume 'prime' stresses the cpu ?

What I want to know is it possible one will get higher temperature running a heavy game than running 'prime'?

If the answer is no than I guess the max temperature the Q6600 can reach is around 65 degrees which is about what my current cpu reaches when gaming... I hope it will be like this when I get this cpu.

SlieTheSecond
05-15-07, 08:19 PM
If you run prime95 for maximum heat. You would be hard pressed to find a game that generates as much heat.

I've never come close with any game yet to that of prime95.

zerobeta
05-16-07, 04:41 AM
One last thing, not sure if I should create a new thread

Any recommendations on a CPU cooler for this quad?

I thought of Freezer 7 Pro which I found to be very decent from reviews

Are there any other (better) air cooling choices?

buffbiff21
05-16-07, 04:50 AM
Arctic freezer 7 is good for a budget.. but assuming you're getting a quad you're not on a budget.

Tuniq Tower 120 is still the king CPU cooler.

http://www.only4pro.com/img/tuotteet/orig/Tuniq_120_3.jpg

Though IMO the Zalman 9700 NT looks the best. ;)

http://www.skycomp.com.au/images/9700nt_c_p.jpg

CaptNKILL
05-16-07, 05:10 AM
Arctic freezer 7 is good for a budget.. but assuming you're getting a quad you're not on a budget.

Tuniq Tower 120 is still the king CPU cooler.

http://www.only4pro.com/img/tuotteet/orig/Tuniq_120_3.jpg

Actually I'm pretty sure the Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme out cools any other air cooler. :)

zerobeta
05-16-07, 06:37 AM
I looked in zalman's site and it does not seem they have any coolers for the Quad, only Dual Cores (for example the 9700)

Will look for reviews about the 2 other options tho, thanks for the information.

-edit - too bad none of the 2 options are available over here, guess it will be a freezer 7 pro for me


The options I have are Freezer 7 Pro and Scythe Ninja Plus
I assume the ninja will perform better?

nekrosoft13
05-16-07, 08:18 AM
Actually I'm pretty sure the Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme out cools any other air cooler. :)

nothing currently beats Ultra-120 Extreme in air cooling.

take a look here

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2943&p=4

CaptNKILL
05-16-07, 10:11 AM
nothing currently beats Ultra-120 Extreme in air cooling.

take a look here

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2943&p=4
I wish I knew how my XP-90 stacked up against the Ultra 120 Extreme. I know the extreme will be quieter (with a Scythe SFlex fan) and cooler, but for close to $70 with a fan, thats pretty crazy. Next time I upgrade I'm either using my XP-90 or getting the ultra 120 extreme. Theres really no point in considering any other coolers... I just don't know HOW big the difference would be.

nekrosoft13
05-16-07, 10:23 AM
I wish I knew how my XP-90 stacked up against the Ultra 120 Extreme. I know the extreme will be quieter (with a Scythe SFlex fan) and cooler, but for close to $70 with a fan, thats pretty crazy. Next time I upgrade I'm either using my XP-90 or getting the ultra 120 extreme. Theres really no point in considering any other coolers... I just don't know HOW big the difference would be.

my estimate would be your XP-90 because it only has 92mm fan, it would be somewhere between Zalman 9500 and 9700 series.

I want to get Ultra-120 extreme, but i can't find one in stock anywhere right now

CaptNKILL
05-16-07, 10:25 AM
my estimate would be your XP-90 because it only has 92mm fan, it would be somewhere between Zalman 9500 and 9700 series.

I want to get Ultra-120 extreme, but i can't find one in stock anywhere right now
The only place I've seen it in stock was Jab-tech, but that only lasted a day or two.

Personally, I'd wait.

The reviews on NewEgg point to some quality control issues right now. Such as warped bases that are clearly not flat (which totally ruins the heatsink's performance) and some heat pipes not being fully soldered to the base.

I'm sure these will clear up pretty quickly once they get into full production though.

nekrosoft13
05-16-07, 10:30 AM
wait?

i'm not a very patient ;)

CaptNKILL
05-16-07, 10:43 AM
wait?

i'm not a very patient ;)
:captnkill:

zerobeta
05-16-07, 12:24 PM
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2965&p=5

Looking at a comparison between all these coolers, I see a scythe Infinity performs same with idle temps and better with load temps (im talking all with stock fans) than the Ninja

The Infinity also costs a bit more, tho it has only 5 heat pipes vs 6 for the ninja

The bottom line is it performs better than the ninja (all with stock fans) so I guess it would be the better choice? (since the only other option is a freezer 7 pro)?

Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme (not an option)
Tuniq Tower 120 (not an option)

Options, first is best:
1) Scythe Infinity
2) Scythe Ninja Plus
3) Freezer 7 Pro

edit - the infinity is 960g which doesnt appeal to me, now I am not sure what to go with...

nekrosoft13
05-16-07, 12:27 PM
I installed the Extreme today, that thing is huge!
The CPU clock is at 2.66GHz so I can't compare it to the Zalman 9700. I'm gonna overclock the CPU tomorrow to see how much better it really is ;)

make sure you pair it with a good fan, good fan makes a big difference

buffbiff21
05-16-07, 01:06 PM
Eh hem.. to all your Ultra 120 Extreme promoters...

have a look: and keep in mind that our friend here is going to have a quad core:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16835109140&SortField=1&SummaryType=ALL&Pagesize=10&Page=

read the reviews and their helpfulness.

nekrosoft13
05-16-07, 01:34 PM
Eh hem.. to all your Ultra 120 Extreme promoters...

have a look: and keep in mind that our friend here is going to have a quad core:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16835109140&SortField=1&SummaryType=ALL&Pagesize=10&Page=

read the reviews and their helpfulness.

and??

so two had a bad heatsinks, where every single review is stellar.

buffbiff21
05-16-07, 01:59 PM
and??

so two had a bad heatsinks, where every single review is stellar.
because every review has tested with the board sitting on a flat surface (i.e. NOT installed vertically in a case), in which the weight of the sink is not detrimental to the contact with the IHS.