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CaptNKILL
05-16-07, 02:36 PM
Ok, I don't game that much anymore and the main reason is the crappy performance of most of the games I enjoy, despite my near top of the line system. This is mostly just a "vent" thread, but if anyone else has these games it might help to have some confirmation that they run like utter crap (at least some times), even on high end systems, just so I know it isn't something that just happens to be "wrong" every time I reinstalled XP or Vista or swapped hardware over the past year.

Ok first of all, Day of Defeat: Source. This game has NO business running like crap, but from reading around the steam forums a bit it seems like Valve totally destroyed this game with an update last month. I had pretty good performance the last time I played it, and I think that was on my 7950GX2. I generally play my games at either 1600x1200 or 2048x1536 with no AA and 16xAF, just to guarantee the smoothest framerates and no mouse lag. Normally in DoD:S I get between 55 and 200 fps with all settings maxed (water set to "reflect world") at 2048x1536. But for some stupid reason, it frequently drops to the 10-30fps range. It seems to happen most often when there is a lot of shooting or explosions going on somewhere in the map. Graphics and sound settings do nothing. I used the "-autoconfig" launch command to reset everything and it didn't seem to have any effect. I tried it in xp and vista with same results (using the same installation of steam). I also uninstalled the agiea physx driver thinking it was physics related, but that didn't do anything either. Obviously this ruins the gameplay and is totally unacceptable given the age and technology behind this game.

Red Orchestra is another big one. Not only does it run anywhere from "smooth as butter" to "pure crap" depending on what I'm looking at and whats going on, but it still has that horrible stuttering bug (at least in XP) that showed up with the 8 series cards and any Unreal Engine 2 game (RO, UT2004 etc). Also, at high resolutions there is an absurd amount of mouse lag in this game when grass is enabled and you zoom with a scope. There is absolutely no reason a game running on such old technology should run this bad on a high end system.

STALKER. Obviously this one has an excuse being that its a brand new game and looks amazing, but some of the areas are ridiculously CPU limited and run horrible (and that means there isn't any way around it except to upgrade). For example, enter the "Bar" area from the "Garbage". In the area where the dogs are running around, just outside the outpost, look toward the bar. I get pretty horrid framerates here in XP and it its slightly better in Vista, but still pretty bad. I'm positive its a CPU limitation, but it still drives me nuts. If anyone else can confirm the poor performance here, that'd help a lot. The other major performance problem with this game is related to the long pauses when loading areas where you have lots of items stored in containers. This is such a glaring bug (which actually screws up the AI and collision detection during the pause) that its hard to believe it made it past the beta, let alone past the 3rd patch.

Oblivion. Again, at least it looks great, but I get a ton of horrible stuttering and freezing while the game loads data in the wilderness. Whether I'm using texture packs that quadruple the amount of memory the game uses, or I'm running it stock, I get these stutters and freezes in both XP and Vista and I have on several installations with 3 different video cards since the game was released. I've seen videos of the game running smoothly while someone ran like 300 yards, so I know for sure that the game is NOT supposed to run like this.

There are other games that still run like crap, but these are the ones that are pissing me off the most.

*sigh*

I want to do a big system upgrade eventually... I want to RAID my 320gig hard drives, get 4gigs of DDR, get a core 2 running at 3.6+... but honestly, my favorite games run SO bad (some times) that I'm doubtful that even that would fix it.

I know I'm very picky about performance, but I just don't see hundreds of thousands of PC gamers dealing with this crap and only a few saying anything about it, yet I've been building gaming computers for 8 years now and I just can't see how anything I've done would cause any of these problems.

Buenamos
05-16-07, 02:50 PM
I know I'm very picky about performance, but I just don't see hundreds of thousands of PC gamers dealing with this crap and only a few saying anything about it, yet I've been building gaming computers for 8 years now and I just can't see how anything I've done would cause any of these problems.

The reason you only see a few saying anything about it is because when the subject gets boughten up, consoles always come to mind. And we all know how those threads end up. :(

|MaguS|
05-16-07, 03:01 PM
I have no perfomance issues with DOD:S, Oblivion or Stalker. Only time Oblivion would give me poor performance is when I went crazy with the mods.

Toss3
05-16-07, 03:01 PM
Consoles seem to be the better way of spending money right now, and I don't blame nvidia or ati, just the game developers who don't spend enough time optimizing for best perfomance instead of pushing games out of the door. :thumbdwn:

I really hope you'll get the performance you paid for soon enough! :)

CaptNKILL
05-16-07, 03:49 PM
I have no perfomance issues with DOD:S, Oblivion or Stalker. Only time Oblivion would give me poor performance is when I went crazy with the mods.
Ok, I see stuff like this all the time but there isn't ever anything to back it up.

When you say "no performance issues" do you mean you get solid 50+ fps in DoD:S (all the time), no stuttering when scenery loads in Oblivion and smooth framerates at the bar (and no pauses or freezing) in Stalker? If so, you'd probably be the only person to claim that.

:eek2:

I'm not trying to be argumentative, it just makes it more difficult to figure out why something runs like crap when one or two people claim to have absolutely no performance problems.

Tr1cK
05-16-07, 03:53 PM
Capt, have you tried different lower resolutions and/or sound settings?

SeriTonin
05-16-07, 03:55 PM
I'm assuming you did a clean install of your OS?

It's amazing, I went to Vista, hated it, went back to XP Pro fresh install and decided to bog down my back-up machine with all my videos, music, limewire, java, etc.

Then I did a few known game tweaks in services and in virtual memory storage and Oblivion went from lower 20's outside to upper 50's. I also switched to the 91.47 drivers. This is a HUGE improvement and if anyone else posted this, I'd call them a bull****ter in a heart beat, but I'm speaking truth. I dont know what was blogging down my machine, and or maybe the video drivers previosuly used didnt like oblivion, but ive notcied improvements in ALL games.

Needles to say, nothing but games go on my main rig, internet surfing, downloading, etc is all done on the back up machine now.

I'm curious to see how Lost Planet runs on my gaming rig dx9 mode of course...after seeing all the low scores, I want to see what my tweaked, clean machine does.

Also, I get a few hitches in stalker and a few in oblivion. Oblivion usually just when I first load the game, it will stutter around the first few corners I turn at. After 2 or 3 times in the first 5 minutes its smooth from there...maybe caching files?

I dont see why DOD Source should give u any problems at all.

Stalker is the same, after a few seconds its smooth.

ATI_Dude
05-16-07, 03:56 PM
Only time Oblivion would give me poor performance is when I went crazy with the mods.

Try entering the Imperial City Market District through the front gate.

CaptNKILL
05-16-07, 04:01 PM
Here is a video I recorded a while ago of Oblivion running on my system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RZA3PNxBCI

CaptNKILL
05-16-07, 04:02 PM
Try entering the Imperial City Market District through the front gate.
:werd:

The cities are extremely CPU limited and run like crap, even on a dual core X2.

I haven't seen the game running on a core 2 duo or quad, I imagine its better, but I doubt anyone gets 30-40fps in the imperial market district at noon without seriously dropping the object draw distance.

|MaguS|
05-16-07, 04:07 PM
Ok, I see stuff like this all the time but there isn't ever anything to back it up.

When you say "no performance issues" do you mean you get solid 50+ fps in DoD:S (all the time), no stuttering when scenery loads in Oblivion and smooth framerates at the bar (and no pauses or freezing) in Stalker? If so, you'd probably be the only person to claim that.

:eek2:

I'm not trying to be argumentative, it just makes it more difficult to figure out why something runs like crap when one or two people claim to have absolutely no performance problems.

Day of Defeat runs flawless for me, I never get any slowdown or performance issues. I don't know what framerate its running at but its completly playable for me with no issues.

Oblivion hitches when loading a new cell but thats normal, theres no way to avoid that since its how the games engine is designed, other then that the game runs smoother then the X360 version. Again only time I would get a serious performance hit would be when I go mod crazy.

STALKER, lots of people report stuttering in the game but for me the game is smooth as silk, i can see some dips in performance (no pausing though) but nothing that makes it unplayable.

CaptNKILL
05-16-07, 04:19 PM
Day of Defeat runs flawless for me, I never get any slowdown or performance issues. I don't know what framerate its running at but its completly playable for me with no issues.
When was the last time you played DoD:S? People on the steam forums claim that the performance drops started within in the last month. I guess "playable" framerates will vary from person to person, but still, it should be noticeable if the game drops from 120fps to 15, regardless of if you can play it like that.

Oblivion hitches when loading a new cell but thats normal, theres no way to avoid that since its how the games engine is designed, other then that the game runs smoother then the X360 version. Again only time I would get a serious performance hit would be when I go mod crazy.
What exactly do you mean by mod crazy? What kind of mods caused excessive performance problems? I know that the "Everything Viewable" mod that added distant building and rock models really killed performance, but other than that the game never ran much different from stock to loaded (including the huge texture packs) for me. Even on a fresh install it stutters like mad though.


STALKER, lots of people report stuttering in the game but for me the game is smooth as silk, i can see some dips in performance (no pausing though) but nothing that makes it unplayable.
Stalker generally runs fine for me (no stuttering), but as I said before, some areas, especially around the bar and the military compound (freedom base) are extremely CPU limited and run terrible (15-25fps). I guess the difference in CPU power could be making some of these areas more playable for you though. Still, one of the most well known bugs with the game is the way it pauses or freezes for a few seconds when you are within range of containers full of items. Apparently the game loads all of the resources (models, textures, etc) for the objects as soon as they are in range, so a box containing 10 guns and 40 other items makes the game choke. If you aren't getting this, you should probably contact GSC so they can get started on a fix...

Again, not trying to start an argument, it just blows my mind that some people have perfect performance in some games when others are getting stuttering, freezing and low frame rates on more than adequate machines.

schuey74
05-16-07, 04:38 PM
Stalker generally runs fine for me (no stuttering), but as I said before, some areas, especially around the bar and the military compound (freedom base) are extremely CPU limited and run terrible (15-25fps). I guess the difference in CPU power could be making some of these areas more playable for you though. Still, one of the most well known bugs with the game is the way it pauses or freezes for a few seconds when you are within range of containers full of items. Apparently the game loads all of the resources (models, textures, etc) for the objects as soon as they are in range, so a box containing 10 guns and 40 other items makes the game choke. If you aren't getting this, you should probably contact GSC so they can get started on a fix...

I have the exact same issues as you in Stalker and I have an E6600 @ 3.6 & a 8800 GTX. The game runs great most of the time too, but that "loading all the textures" bug really sucks. The more stuff you have stored up, the longer the pauses, and they can get very long.......two to three seconds.

Jon
05-16-07, 04:44 PM
I think the problems with Stalker are with the code and not your setup. I've got an 8800GTS... at the time I had a 4800X2 as well and with dynamic lighting or object lighting it was unplayable for me (<20fps in certain areas)

I've just upgraded, so when I've got my overclock stable, I'll try it and see what my Q6600 performs like.

ATI_Dude
05-16-07, 05:10 PM
:werd:

The cities are extremely CPU limited and run like crap, even on a dual core X2.

I haven't seen the game running on a core 2 duo or quad, I imagine its better, but I doubt anyone gets 30-40fps in the imperial market district at noon without seriously dropping the object draw distance.

I believe there's a bug in Nvidia's driver. I'm absolutely certain I got higher frame rates with my Radeon X1900XTX in certain parts of the market district. Now I get an astonishing 20 fps near the front gate and near the central crossroads. Performance in the countryside and other cities is fine and I can even enable 16x CSAA.

CDE_1246
05-16-07, 05:32 PM
I like how that one guy on the comments puts "your pc sucks, get a new one." what an idiot. Sorry to hear about that. I hear u and i know what its like. STALKER lags so bad on my computer it makes me want to jump out the window.

CaptNKILL
05-16-07, 05:59 PM
I like how that one guy on the comments puts "your pc sucks, get a new one." what an idiot. Sorry to hear about that. I hear u and i know what its like. STALKER lags so bad on my computer it makes me want to jump out the window.
That was Magus. :lol:

CaptNKILL
05-16-07, 06:04 PM
I have the exact same issues as you in Stalker and I have an E6600 @ 3.6 & a 8800 GTX. The game runs great most of the time too, but that "loading all the textures" bug really sucks. The more stuff you have stored up, the longer the pauses, and they can get very long.......two to three seconds.
How does it run at the Freedom base (at the main entrance of the base, face toward the base) or at the bar (from the "garbage" entrance, go to where the dogs are and look toward the bar area)? I'm really hoping that GSC will fix the container loading problems, but I think I'll need a faster CPU to get rid of the slow downs around cities. If yours still cant hack it (at least 40fps) I guess I'll need one hell of a CPU.

|MaguS|
05-16-07, 06:28 PM
I like how that one guy on the comments puts "your pc sucks, get a new one." what an idiot. Sorry to hear about that. I hear u and i know what its like. STALKER lags so bad on my computer it makes me want to jump out the window.

ROFL!

Cap, I think the areas your getting performance drops are due to your CPU, other then that the stuttering in Oblivion is weird... it never gets that bad for me. The only stutter I get is when im on the horse and running around I get the cell loading stutter but thats an engine flaw.

I will admit, I haven't played DOD in over a month but the last time I played it was flawless at the max settings but then I also had SLi. I will try tonight...

WeReWoLf
05-16-07, 06:42 PM
I'll agree with Magus on this one. The AM2's are just too CPU limited. It's only the AM2 6000's that start to perform comparably against the e6400 and e6600.

nutcrackr
05-16-07, 06:43 PM
oblivion ran ok for me, then again I did play it 1024x768 with no HDR and no grass (because it looks crap and runs crap). Heck I can't even play game slike r6v, splinter cell and lost planet and I don't complain :P

CaptNKILL
05-16-07, 06:50 PM
I'll agree with Magus on this one. The AM2's are just too CPU limited. It's only the AM2 6000's that start to perform comparably against the e6400 and e6600.
I have a 939... not that that is much different.

I'm still stumped on the DoD:S and Red Orchestra problems though.

I just played RO in Vista for the first time (using the new 158.42 betas which so far are great) and overall it seemed much smoother, but then I loaded up Arad (the one with "real" forests) and every time a shell hit a tank my framerate dropped below 10. :|

I remember this map running bad before, but this is absurd... how the HELL does ANYONE play this game if this is normal? Most people don't have high end athlons, let alone core 2 duos. If its unplayable more than half the time on my CPU then its safe to say most other people are in the same boat.

It really sucks because IMO this is one of the best war games ever released.

|MaguS|
05-16-07, 06:57 PM
Isn't there a bug with the UT engine in the recent drivers?

CaptNKILL
05-16-07, 07:01 PM
Isn't there a bug with the UT engine in the recent drivers?
Not sure.

Vista fixed the skipping\stuttering on interiors that lots of people had in RO and UT2004. That was around since the 8 series was released and as far as I know it still is in XP.

Its hard to find any info on RO though. Its not as popular as most other games.

CaptNKILL
05-16-07, 07:07 PM
I haven't played Stalker or DoD yet, but on Oblivion at maximum in-game setting running at 1280x1024 resolution I always have a solid 60 fps (I always have VSync enabled), even in cities. It might stutter (like, skip a couple of frames) when moving from one area to the next, but as Magus said, that's just the way the engine loads.

I've got 4xAA and 8xAF forced through the Nvidia control panel.

My system is practically identical to yours.
Any chance you'd be able to take a short fraps benchmark in the imperial city market district? I did a bunch of benchmarking a while ago where I stood at the door coming from the arena district (during the day, looking toward the shops) and I was getting less than 20fps solid.

Our systems are very similar... and I don't get anywhere near 60fps solid in the imperial city. I hit 60fps plenty of times, but definitely not constant.