ATI is working hard to launch Radeon HD 2950 Series

[Trademark]

Yeah I can remember, when AA was turned on on the 2900, the 1950 beat it (you can see in my sig below)

And I agree, 8800 series was performance straight out of the box and I myself experienced little to none issues (Oblivion endless lines, wich were later on fixed) Only vista was buggered up, but that's because it's Windows ME v2.0 w/ enhanced BSOD

Xion, Also on a sidenote, the fact you got 3 defecitve 8800's a couple of mucked nforce chipsets doesn't mean they are bad. And I never really understood all the whining from ALOT of people, not just you, who constantly brag about nvidias drivers. Yeah vista support was crap, but so is vista, so I wouldn't blamde nVdia. But to be honest I found ATI drivers to be lacking, because of their memory usage, there is no excuse for 50Mb usage. My next videocard will definately will be another nVidia unless nvidia comes with Geforce FX and ATI with 9800XT. You had bad luck with nVidia's shizzle so you switch to ATI and what do they offer you? You seem to be having alot of luck with them too, seeing as one of your cards is already fried :/ As for the nvidia chipsets giving up on you, I had 2 intel p965 chipsets die on, then I decided to switch to nvidia and so far it seems to be working properly and I get a nice warranty unlike the asus mobo

[Xion X2]

And once again it's one single game, show us a list, from one concrete review and let's compare then.

Considering these new drivers have only been out for like a week, that's sort of difficult to do, don't you think? It's sort of hard to find a review that's done with newer games and newer drivers; for whatever reason most of them still want to include games like F.E.A.R. and Serious Sam II, and Doom 3.

Besides that, I really see no basis for a complaint from you here. You're basically saying that one review site is biased and the next isn't, which is an unfounded, bullsh*t assumption on your part until you can prove it true.

I want to see some reviews 8800GTS vs HD2900XT w/ latest drivers, because right now what we see is pointless. Then draw conclusions. One benchie from site X and one from site Y? Bad idea if you ask me.

I already showed you one of these. Look at the DriverHeaven.net review for the F.E.A.R. and Oblivion benchmarks. In both games the 2900XT outperformed the 8800GTS. It killed it in Oblivion.

"To be perfectly honest with you, I couldn't care less if a new graphics card that I just bought doesn't run Prey at 128 fps and just 96fps at high settings or something of the like"

Excellent, then why would you want to get a 240W card wich also has high temps? Because it's cheaper? No my friend, it isn't cheaper, in the long run (assuming you want to use the card for a good period) it's ALOT more expensive.

Oh, please. What a f*cking lame argument to make. What, is my power bill going to go up $.67 cents a month? Ohhhhhh nooooeeeeees!!!!!!1111 And I doubt my watercooling setup could keep this monster cool.. since.. you know, my 8800GTX loaded at around 52C. Yeah, I'd be lucky to keep this baby under 100C, right?

:rolleyes:



Might aswell get a 8800GTS because the performance is pretty much the same

No, it's not. Not on newer titles it's not.

tell me, why would you want to have this card? Are you a big fan of ATI? Because that isn't a good reason, it's about performance, power usage, IQ etc.

I've already told you and several others why I am interested in this card. One is the fact that I've never received a dead videocard from ATI while I've been through 5 defective ones with Nvidia in the last year. Another is the fact that it has a different architecture that seems more favorable to DirectX10 (on paper, at least.) and has shown marked improvement with recent drivers and more modern titles. Another is the fact that it's a damn good value for the money.

And who gives a damn about power usage, for gods sakes? Really! I see this lame argument time and again from you guys who overclock the living hell out of your systems! What do you think that's doing for power, huh? You'll use up more power overclocking your damn processor than you EVER will in using a 2900XT in place of an 8800GTS/GTX.

Just a stupid argument all the way around. I could see it being a legitimate one if we were some activist group, but c'mon, man.. this is an enthusiasts forum where people overclock their systems left and right. Power consumption goes out the window when talking about high-end parts.

[Xion X2]

Xion, Also on a sidenote, the fact you got 3 defecitve 8800's a couple of mucked nforce chipsets doesn't mean they are bad.

You are in denial if you think there have been no issues with these cards and motherboards. Absolute denial.

How long have you been on this forum? There were at least 15 reported individuals who had the resistor problems with their 8800s on launch day and had to RMA them. There was even a review site out there that linked directly to our forum and ran an article on the issue. There have been countless others with 680i problems who have RMAd boards repeatedly. I have even had eVGA employees PM me and admit that the board is a hunk of crap.

You are really, really blinded to the facts.

You had bad luck with nVidia's shizzle so you switch to ATI and what do they offer you? You seem to be having alot of luck with them too, seeing as one of your cards is already fried :/

Are you daft? The card worked perfectly on the stock cooler. The card failing is squarely on my shoulders, because it only started doing it after I installed the waterblock on it. The waterblock (apparently) was on too tight. That has nothing to do with ATI's quality control; at least it worked out of the box, which is more than I can say for 5 Nvidia cards that I have owned in the last year.

As for the nvidia chipsets giving up on you, I had 2 intel p965 chipsets die on, then I decided to switch to nvidia and so far it seems to be working properly and I get a nice warranty unlike the asus mobo

Good for you. But here's an eye-opener. Yahoo search results for "p965 problems" and "680i problems" See if you can spot the difference:

1 - 10 of about 187,000 for p965 problems.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=p965+problems&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8

1 - 10 of about 331,000 for 680i problems
http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0geu7UoH1tG69YAvAhXNyoA?p=680i+proble ms&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-501&x=wrt

Nearly twice as many hits for a chipset that's been out 1/3 of the time the other has.

You're in denial.

[Trademark]

You are in denial if you think there have been no issues with these cards and motherboards. Absolute denial.

How long have you been on this forum? There were at least 15 reported individuals who had the resistor problems with their 8800s on launch day and had to RMA them. There have been countless others with 680i problems who have RMAd boards repeatedly. I have even had eVGA employees PM me and admit that the board is a hunk of crap.

You are really, really blinded to the facts.

I'm not in denial, but the same can happen to an intel motherboard, asus motherboard with whatever chipset, so this is not limited to nvidia, because if you think that is, than you are the one in denial. Also the resistor problem was resolved very quickly, for god's sake such things can happen to a car (and I can know it). Baby diseases smartass...

Are you daft? The card worked perfectly on the stock cooler, Einstein. The card failing is squarely on my shoulders, because the waterblock (apparently) was on too tight. That has nothing to do with ATI's quality control; at least it worked out of the box, which is more than I can say for 5 Nvidia cards that I have owned in the last year.

Pure coincidence, if you bought 5 ati cards, you could have the exact same problem, **** happens. However my I withdraw my "fact" that the card died on you, the waterblock killed it.

Good for you. But here's an eye-opener. Yahoo search results for "p965 problems" and "680i problems" See if you can spot the difference

You fail to see the point once again... It can happen to any mobo, it's not a question of how often a certain type of mobo is affected. I'm saying it can happen to any mobo, currently it's obvious that the quality is overall better on intel chipsets, but that's also not the point. Defective motherboards happen. Your bad luck with nvidia mobo's is purely a coincidence, unless you killed them yourself, wich is most likely not the case.

Considering these new drivers have only been out for like a week, that's sort of difficult to do, don't you think? It's sort of hard to find a review that's done with newer games and newer drivers; for whatever reason most of them still want to include games like F.E.A.R. and Serious Sam II, and Doom 3.
So? I can wait right?


I already showed you one of these. Look at the DriverHeaven.net review for the F.E.A.R. and Oblivion benchmarks. In both games the 2900XT outperformed the 8800GTS. It killed it in Oblivion.
If those are latest drivers, then it confirms my thoughts. They show the 2900XT own in like 4 games the rest is owned by 8800GTS or GTX. Oblivion and COH di really well on the 2900, but I play other games aswell.

Oh, please. What a f*cking lame argument to make. What, is my power bill going to go up $.67 cents a month? Ohhhhhh nooooeeeeees!!!!!!1111
Come live where I live, the ****ing company will call you that your energy usage gone high and they suspect you have weed plants on your attic. Prices here are high. And this is with a 8800GTX, I don't wanna know how many phonecalls I will get when I put a 2900XT in...

And I doubt my watercooling setup could keep this monster cool.. since.. you know, my 8800GTX loaded at around 52C. Yeah, I'd be lucky to keep this baby under 100C, right?
Good watercooling you have, my 8800GTX is 53C idle with stock cooler and overclocked... And this is not only about you, not everyone here has a watercooled Radeon 2900XT in crossfire, most people can consider theirselves lucky if they have one on stock cooling. And that bloody chip is way too hot. Wouldn't be suprised if they die as quick as 9800's.

And who gives a damn about power usage, for gods sakes? Really! I see this lame argument time and again from you guys who overclock the living hell out of your systems! What do you think that's doing for power, huh? You'll use up more power overclocking your damn processor than you EVER will in using a 2900XT in place of an 8800GTS/GTX.

Just a stupid argument all the way around. I could see it being a legitimate one if we were some activist group, but c'mon, man.. this is an enthusiasts forum where people overclock their systems left and right. Power consumption goes out the window when talking about high-end parts.

Ok assuming you're electricity bill is fine, then it still leaves the temperature issue and the performance issue.

A 8800GTS is just more efficient, it might get beaten in a few tests here and there, but it's WAY more effeicient. I would buy a 8800GTS over a 2900 anytime, oversized powersucking roomheating cake.

Overclocking a cpu will make the cpu draw more power ofcourse, but you can choose to do so, the R2900XT comes out of the box with a bizarre powerusage for a videocard, the bloody highest in history.

Before being called an Nvidia fanboy or <insert some insult here> I want to state that I prefer nvidia over ATI, unless nvidia makes another stupid mistake like FX5800 or if ATI comes with a 9800XT/8800GTX like card. Let's say a refresh of the ATI card comes out with (wich will happen) and I didn't have my current computer I would have bought a R600 refresh instead of a R600 (Assuming it beats the living daylight out of a XFX Ultra XXX).

Let's try to remain civil

[SLINROB]

You are in denial if you think there have been no issues with these cards and motherboards. Absolute denial.

How long have you been on this forum? There were at least 15 reported individuals who had the resistor problems with their 8800s on launch day and had to RMA them. There was even a review site out there that linked directly to our forum and ran an article on the issue. There have been countless others with 680i problems who have RMAd boards repeatedly. I have even had eVGA employees PM me and admit that the board is a hunk of crap.

You are really, really blinded to the facts.



Are you daft? The card worked perfectly on the stock cooler. The card failing is squarely on my shoulders, because it only started doing it after I installed the waterblock on it. The waterblock (apparently) was on too tight. That has nothing to do with ATI's quality control; at least it worked out of the box, which is more than I can say for 5 Nvidia cards that I have owned in the last year.



Good for you. But here's an eye-opener. Yahoo search results for "p965 problems" and "680i problems" See if you can spot the difference:


http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=p965+problems&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8


http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0geu7UoH1tG69YAvAhXNyoA?p=680i+proble ms&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-501&x=wrt

Nearly twice as many hits for a chipset that's been out 1/3 of the time the other has.

You're in denial.




Wow. Someone just got-


http://www.maj.com/gallery/Eliminator/Pictures/ownage.png

[sammy sung]

Im with ya on that one Xion,this is my third GTX in 6 months and my second nvidia mobo in that same timeframe.I hated this card at first,sure it was fast as hell but it made my pc bsod left at right,unstable as ****.That was the point of my answer to Redeemed when he said that the proportional performance gains have been greater with the 2900 with newer drivers.The speed was there,it peformed great and then there just isnt the same room for improvement as is the case with 2900xt.

My first 2 cards (both BFG's) were objects of hatred for me,the first bsod once every 15 minutes and when the RMA came through and they sent me the second one ,a OC version with slightly higher gpu and shaderclock it lasted for a cool 2 hours before the 3d gave up and just displayed a black screen with pretty red pixels on it :rolleyes:

I never had the same issues as xion did with his 680i mobos but i have yet to try to oc that much either,im using their latest 1101 bios now but i havent had any noteworthy issues since 4 months that could be attributed to the motherboard.

But for me personally things are different now,i got my third card,the asus version (first with a green pcb,the first i had were both black ) and its working perfectly,im currently using the 160.03 xp driver and 2 months of bsod free gaming behind me.

Not until a few weeks ago i would have reccomended this combo to a m8,not even the GFX card but now i think its great,there's always issues with most new hardware as the 2900 users have seen aswell.But the g80 had performance ,great performance directly while the 2900 didnt have that,times will tell how good/bad this card really turns out to be.

[SLINROB]

Im with ya on that one Xion,this is my third GTX in 6 months and my second nvidia mobo in that same timeframe.I hated this card at first,sure it was fast as hell but it made my pc bsod left at right,unstable as ****.That was the point of my answer to Redeemed when he said that the proportional performance gains have been greater with the 2900 with newer drivers.The speed was there,it peformed great and then there just isnt the same room for improvement as is the case with 2900xt.

My first 2 cards were objects of hatred for me,the first bsod once every 15 minutes and when the RMA came through and they sent me the second one ,a OC version with slightly higher gpu and shaderclock it lasted for a cool 2 hours before the 3d gave up and just displayed a black screen with pretty red pixels on it :rolleyes:

I never had the same issues as xion did with his 680i mobos but i have yet to try to oc that much either,im using their latest 1101 bios now but i havent had any noteworthy issues since 4 months that could be attributed to the motherboard.

But for me personally things are different now,i got my third card,the asus version (first with a green pcb,the first i had were both black ) and its working perfectly,im currently using the 160.03 xp driver and 2 months of bsod free gaming behind me.

Not until a few weeks ago i would have reccomended this combo to a m8,not even the GFX card but now i think its great,there's always issues with most new hardware as the 2900 users have seen aswell.But the g80 had performance ,great performance directly while the 2900 didnt have that,times will tell how good/bad this card really turns out to be.

Wow dude thats some crappy luck you had! I am still with my original BFG 8800GTX that I purchased back in Nov and now have it paired up with a 3 month old MSI 8800GTX for SLI:)


Both cards are overclocked on a daily basis and I have yet to have any issues with either card, I guess some are luckier than others. LOL. Just ask Xion About my string of good luck when it comes to hardware :D



Just a thought, You were not trying to run 8800GTX's in SLI with that 600 watt PSU were you?

[sammy sung]

Just a thought, You were not trying to run 8800GTX's in SLI with that 600 watt PSU were you?


Hahaha hell no ,im not a retard :rolleyes: The second card was a replacement and ive never owned 2 at once,i plan to however but will buy a enermax galaxy 1kw psu to replace this one further on.:)

[SLINROB]

Hahaha hell no ,im not a retard :rolleyes: The second card was a replacement and ive never owned 2 at once,i plan to however but will buy a enermax galaxy 1kw psu to replace this one further on.:)


Ok, I just had to ask. You wouldnt believe the number of people who have tried it:rolleyes:

[Trademark]

Jezus christ, you guys had alot of bad luck. And I thought I had a right to get frustrated after my ram and 2 mobos died on me.

[sammy sung]

Ok, I just had to ask. You wouldnt believe the number of people who have tried it:rolleyes:

idd :headexplode: :p

[sammy sung]

Jezus christ, you guys had alot of bad luck. And I thought I had a right to get frustrated after my ram and 2 mobos died on me.

Yea and when the RMA process takes like close to a month each time and your forced to play TDU with a damn borrowed ATI x300 :rolleyes: that forces you to play with 12 fps at the lowest res and settings,then its a tossup wich brand you hate the most :thumbdwn:

[Trademark]

Yeah... That's a major setback. I have a Radeon x300 here, just in case my 8800 starts to show... abnormalities on screen. But I already ordered a 7800GTX from some guy.

The other ATI/Nvidia cards I have (Not sure if you've seen the pic I posted) are all used for other purposes

[Xion X2]

I'm not in denial, but the same can happen to an intel motherboard, asus motherboard with whatever chipset, so this is not limited to nvidia, because if you think that is, than you are the one in denial.

See, here's the problem. You keep making up these bull**** arguments for me that I AM NOT MAKING.

I never said that every Nvidia chipset has problems and every Intel chipset was perfect, so stop arguing against this made-up straw man of yours and argue the point. And that is not my point. My point is that, based on my own personal experiences, and the experiences of those around me and on this forum, along with the eVGA forums, problems with 680i are a much more common occurrance than they are with Intel chipsets.

Also the resistor problem was resolved very quickly, for god's sake such things can happen to a car (and I can know it). Baby diseases smartass...

I never said that it wasn't resolved quickly. I simply brought up the fact that it happened which is evidence enough that quality control is lacking somewhat.

Pure coincidence, if you bought 5 ati cards, you could have the exact same problem, **** happens.

I've bought 4 ATI cards over the years. Among myself and my friends, we have owned about 12 of them. And not one of them has arrived defective.

Not one.

On top of that, I don't recall in recent events ATI having a widespread problem that was publicized such as the resistor issue on 8800GTX cards or the memory problems on 7900GT/GTX cards. Do you? If so, bring it to the forefront so we can see it. Otherwise, you're just talking out of your butt crack again here.

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=80617&highlight=resistor+guide

You fail to see the point once again... It can happen to any mobo, it's not a question of how often a certain type of mobo is affected. I'm saying it can happen to any mobo, currently it's obvious that the quality is overall better on intel chipsets, but that's also not the point.

Yes it is the point. Anyone with half a brain cell realizes that any motherboard can arrive defective. I mean.. duh. Do you think we do not realize that?

But the commonality of all of this is the amount of risk that you're taking when buying a product. And you haven't shown anything to disprove the fact that Nvidia chipsets are a lot more risky (especially 680i) than Intel chipsets. Hell, you even agreed with that fact, so I don't know what in the bleeding hell you are arguing against.

Defective motherboards happen. Your bad luck with nvidia mobo's is purely a coincidence, unless you killed them yourself, wich is most likely not the case.

No it's not. Due to the sheer volume of 680i's that have either arrived defective from the factory or died shortly thereafter, it's not.

Can you not fathom that logic, Trademark? Can you not see that when a certain product has a higher rate of failure than another that cases like mine are going to be more common? That's just simple math.

Come live where I live, the ****ing company will call you that your energy usage gone high and they suspect you have weed plants on your attic. Prices here are high. And this is with a 8800GTX, I don't wanna know how many phonecalls I will get when I put a 2900XT in...

:rolleyes:


Good watercooling you have, my 8800GTX is 53C idle with stock cooler and overclocked... And this is not only about you, not everyone here has a watercooled Radeon 2900XT in crossfire, most people can consider theirselves lucky if they have one on stock cooling. And that bloody chip is way too hot. Wouldn't be suprised if they die as quick as 9800's.

Do you own one, or have you had the pleasure of testing one out in person like I have?

My guess is you haven't since I haven't seen you talk about it. Well, I have. I had it on the stock cooler in my buddy's case just the other night with nothing but two 120mm fans nearby to cool it with, and I could easily lay my hand on the back of the card while it was under full load on Oblivion.

The card does not run as hot as people are saying it does. They're exaggerating. It felt about the same as my 8800GTX's did on their stock coolers. Anyone with half a brain can figure out how to install a good fan or two in their case in order to keep temps reasonable. Those who can't have no business buying 400$ videocards.

Overclocking a cpu will make the cpu draw more power ofcourse, but you can choose to do so, the R2900XT comes out of the box with a bizarre powerusage for a videocard, the bloody highest in history.

Nobody is holding you at gun point and making you buy a 2900XT. If you don't like it, don't buy it. The same goes for overclocking your processor, but that obviously didn't stop you, did it? Hence this bull**** argument of yours falls on the basis of your own blind hatred against ATI instead of some form of logic or guideline that you live by when it comes to computer equipment. You don't really care about power-saving, otherwise, you wouldn't have overclocked that X6800 to 3.6GHz now would you?

Let's try to remain civil

If you want this discussion to remain civil, then you need to start using your brain and quit arguing against things that I am not arguing. If you want to try my patience, then that's a good way to do it.

[Xion X2]

http://www.maj.com/gallery/Eliminator/Pictures/ownage.png

ROFL at that pic.. man, now that is a gun right there. :D

[gigapower]

Is that Cousin Eddie in that pic?

[coldpower27]

You know, I think you're right.

AMD is probably putting more effort and focus on Barcelona and Agena right now. And I'm sure they will continue to keep their eyes focused on their CPUs as well. I'm betting they don't want to remain the underdog forever- so I'm hoping they'll be more competitive with their "projects" like Intel is.

Once they get some income, and a few more fabs, I'm sure that they'll start manufacturing their own GPUs and chipsets. Untill then, they're stuck at TSMC. :(

It was a good thought.

Look for this too happen sometime in Early to Mid 2009 at the earliest after AMD gets the hang of their 45nm process.

AMD is still currently working on the 65nm process as you can see no higher widely available SKU higher then 2.6GHZ to my knowledge is available on the 65nm node. As you can see on thier 90nm node they are still using it for their highest bins. Contrast this to Intel getting 3.73GHZ Dual Core with Pentium EE 965 on 65nm vs the Pentium EE 840 on the 90nm process with 3.2GHZ.

Fusion is slated for that timeframe, but by 2009 the landscape will be dramatically different. Intel won't be too far from their 32nm process at that point.

So it might be a case of 55nm for Nvidia vs 45nm for Fusion from AMD. Not exactly enough to be a total ownage level.

Look at Geforce FX vs Radeon 9800's or the current example of Geforce 8800 GTX vs Radeon HD X2900 XT. Or Athlon 64x2 on 90nm vs the Pentium D 9xx on 65nm.

Add to the fact that AMD will need to use it's 45nm capacity to engage Intel in mainstream Quad Cores, which is going to begin in July with the Core 2 Quad Q6600 at $266.

[Trademark]

Xion, it's pointless to argue with you over all the crap, you've made your point, I've made mine.

However we can agree to one thing... that is indeed one big gun...