ATI is working hard to launch Radeon HD 2950 Series

[nekrosoft13]

Recognize the week points of R600

Our sources confirmed that ATI is working hard to release its R650 chip. The 65 nanometre chip is getting closer to launch day by day and aims for some high clocks.

This won't just be a simple die shrink of an existing marchitecture as ATI plans to redesign some parts of the chip. The major architectural difference is that R650 will have more texture power as this was recognizes as one of the weakest points of R600.

ATI aims for higher clocks, closer to 1,000MHz and obviously it will improve the usage of the available bandwidth.

As the chip is going to be shrunk, you can expect significantly less energy consumption. All together this will be what R600 was suppose to be, a Geforce 8800 GTX / Ultra killer, but the problem is that Nvidia will also have something new by the time ATI finishes R650.

We are looking at a August to September launch for R650, but can we really trust ATI in its plans. We hope for MAD.ATI (DAAMIT)'s sake that they can pull this one off. And in case you haven't heard it before, R650 will be comertially known as Radeon HD 2950 XTX and HD 2950XT.


http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1042&Itemid=1

haha, ati must feel really proud of their chip, to already thinking about replacing it.

[rhink]

well the current lineup was supposed to be out in oct/nov timeframe to compete with the 8800's at the same time. So what we're seeing now is more or less competitive with at least the 8800 GTS's, but that doesn't mean they ever stopped work on their next chip, which all along was going to be an improvement to the R600. NVIDIA's doing the same thing- they just weren't 9 months late with the 8800's (just 1-2), so their refresh will be 10-12 months after the initial launch, not 4-5. It's not a matter of "pride", it's just business.

[Viral]

I can't believe how much the whole this is EXACTLY like the 5800Ultra. Well, not quite as bad in a lot of ways, but once again, this is exactly what nVidia did back then, when they launched an insuperior product late to the market. No surprises as to why.

[Madpistol]

I can't believe how much the whole this is EXACTLY like the 5800Ultra. Well, not quite as bad in a lot of ways, but once again, this is exactly what nVidia did back then, when they launched an insuperior product late to the market. No surprises as to why.

Indeed. It seems that this is the Geforce FX fiasco all over again, only this time, it's on ATI/AMD's end: They put out a product that is underperforming a benchmark Nvidia card that was put on 6+ months ahead of it, and it overheats, uses lots of power, and the cooler sounds like vacuum cleaner. So they're aiming to launch the HD 2950 as an answer to this problem (just as nvidia did with the FX 5900 as an answer to the FX 5800. If this pattern continues, ATI will have a faster card, but it will still be inferior to Nvidia's lineup none the less.

Let's hope this trend doesn't continue. I'd hate to see AMD/ATI go under. :(

[rhink]

I think the fact the R600 was going to struggle was disclosed during the AMD/ATI merger talks. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me at all if that fact made ATI far more interested in the idea of a merger.

[|MaguS|]

I can't believe they care so much about higher clocks... they were always like that... put more mhz in the package but never really pushed for new architecture.

[rhink]

That's why their power consumption sucks. Crank the clock speeds as high as they can on a large process... it really sucks current like crazy.

[a12ctic]

What exactly are you guys talking about? How is this a FX series fiasco?
The 2900XT is NOT a super high end card, its a high-mid range card, like the 8800GTS, and in its price range, it tramples the 8800GTS in most cases. I don't see how this is a failure? They didn't release their flagship product first, so what...

[jAkUp]

What exactly are you guys talking about? How is this a FX series fiasco?
The 2900XT is NOT a super high end card, its a high-mid range card, like the 8800GTS, and in its price range, it tramples the 8800GTS in most cases. I don't see how this is a failure? They didn't release their flagship product first, so what...

I would say it hardly tramples the 8800GTS.

Faster... sometimes yes. But barely, and it also has less framebuffer. Not to mention uses a ridiculous amount of power.

[tacos4me]

What exactly are you guys talking about? How is this a FX series fiasco?
The 2900XT is NOT a super high end card, its a high-mid range card, like the 8800GTS, and in its price range, it tramples the 8800GTS in most cases. I don't see how this is a failure? They didn't release their flagship product first, so what...

Do you realize that the 2900XT(R600) was originally supposed to be competing with the 8800GTX(G80)?

Keeping that in mind, the 2900XT barely manages to outdo the GTS. Also, it uses way more power, is way louder, and is even more expensive. Oh, and it was released six months after the 8 Series. The 2900XT is a failure.

[JoKeRr]

Recognize the week points of R600

Nuff said.(lee63)

[MUYA]

Nuff said.(lee63)
Faud's posts are littered with spelling mistakes and the like. But, sometimes he just has the inside information. Dunno how he gets em but, he does.

[Madpistol]

What exactly are you guys talking about? How is this a FX series fiasco?
The 2900XT is NOT a super high end card, its a high-mid range card, like the 8800GTS, and in its price range, it tramples the 8800GTS in most cases. I don't see how this is a failure? They didn't release their flagship product first, so what...

The fiasco is that this card is the top-end card they HAVE released, and it is not only 6 months late, but it cannot compete with Nvidia's top end solution (which is 6 ferkin months old!) In short, ATI is loosing the initial DX10 battle. Hopefully they'll make a good comeback, and soon. Otherwise, the end of them could spell disaster for the entire industry.

Hopefully i'm not alone when I say that I never want to have to pay $1500 for a graphics card. If ATI goes under, it may eventually happen. :(

[Mr_LoL]

This reminds me of the X1800XT with the X1900 coming out a dew months later to replace it. looks like ATI haven't learned their lessons.

[Riptide]

The 2900XT is NOT a super high end card, its a high-mid range card, like the 8800GTS, and in its price range, it tramples the 8800GTS in most cases.
:rolleyes:

Are you high??

[Lfctony]

:rolleyes:

Are you high??

Very likely...

[lightman]

:rolleyes:

Are you high??

Nope. Just an AMD/ATI employee wannabe. Or fanboy, as you prefer.

[Trademark]

In performance it's a semi-high-end the rest is rather high-end in terms of "higher/more is better":
- Power Usage is reatardedly (is that even a word? lol) high
- Temps are aswell retardedly high

ATI themselves stated the ATI Radeon HD2900XT was not able to keep up with the Nvidia Geforce 8800GTX provided as it is. And it simply is provided as it is.Same goes for the 8800GTX, yes overclocking is possible, but overclocking on that card? Yeh if you're a Geforce FX5800 lover and don't mind melting a hole in your case.

Stop denying the reviews for a ******* change, all of them state the same thing:

Radeon HD 2900 XT In Trouble


ATI definitely did not pull off another Radeon 9700 Pro. The Radeon 9700 Pro was a phenomenal card for the time. It introduced a 256-bit bus for the first time and excelled in DirectX 9 shader performance. The Radeon 9700 Pro positively shocked gamers and had a very long life span. Everyone wanted a generational jump such as that with the R600. The ATI Radeon HD 2900 XT however is more akin to NVIDIA’s GeForce FX 5800. It does not seem like this will have a very long life span in comparison. NVIDIA quickly answered the GeForce FX 5800 by introducing the GeForce FX 5900 (NV35). ATI really needs to do something similar in this situation, or they may lose some loyal fans in the enthusiast community and you can bet they are going to continue to lose sales to NVIDIA’s 8000 series products.


Here is what it boils down to. If the Radeon HD 2900 XT performed exactly on par with the GeForce 8800 GTS in every game, it would still be a loser because it draws nearly 100 more watts of power, meaning it is very inefficient. The facts are though that it doesn’t even match the 8800 GTS currently. In every game it slides in underperforming compared to the GeForce 8800 GTS 640 MB, and it does it while drawing a lot more power, as much power or more as an 8800 GTX. Not only that, but a GeForce 8800 GTS 640 MB based video card can now be had for up to $70 cheaper than the Radeon HD 2900 XT. I don’t know about you, but a video card that is cheaper, runs a lot faster and draws less energy just seems like the better value to me.


This doesn’t even bring into the equation the GeForce 8800 GTX which outclasses the ATI Radeon HD 2900 XT on every front. Yes, it costs about $130 more, but that $130 buys you a lot more performance in games. It is sad that ATI does not have a GPU to compete with the GeForce 8800 GTX. At this point NVIDIA has, dare I say it, a monopoly over the high-end of computer gaming video card market. If you want the best gaming performance, it is still the GeForce 8800 GTX. The GTX has no competition.


http://it-review.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1314&Itemid=1&limit=1&limitstart=2

Well there are many more.

2900 performs sometimes better, but generally on par with a 8800GTS, both on stock

My point is, you should NOT have to overclock to make it better, that's Nvidia's/Ati's job and their authorized board partners

Good news for ATI? I think they will be dominating mid-end, because Nvidia's mid-end is nothing creative

[Morrow]

What exactly are you guys talking about? How is this a FX series fiasco?
The 2900XT is NOT a super high end card, its a high-mid range card, like the 8800GTS, and in its price range, it tramples the 8800GTS in most cases. I don't see how this is a failure? They didn't release their flagship product first, so what...

They didn't release their flagship first because they obviously don't have a flagship.

The R600 architecture was expected to be a direct competitor to the fastest G80 chip available (8800GTX). However their plans didn't turn out as hoped so they needed the change their them.

They couldn't not in any way compete with the 8800GTX nor the later 8800Ultra (which makes this fiasco even worse than the FX5800 fiasco) so they came up with the plan to release their planned high-end card as a better mid-end card for a cheaper price to be able to compete with nvidia at least somewhat on a price/performance aspect.

To make it clear, ATI does not have a high-end R600, The 2900XT is the best they can release for the moment. A proper DX10 high-end card from ATI will be released as a refresh in form of a 65nm chip.

[Redeemed]

In performance it's a semi-high-end the rest is rather high-end in terms of "higher/more is better":
- Power Usage is reatardedly (is that even a word? lol) high
- Temps are aswell retardedly high

ATI themselves stated the ATI Radeon HD2900XT was not able to keep up with the Nvidia Geforce 8800GTX provided as it is. And it simply is provided as it is.Same goes for the 8800GTX, yes overclocking is possible, but overclocking on that card? Yeh if you're a Geforce FX5800 lover and don't mind melting a hole in your case.

Stop denying the reviews for a ******* change, all of them state the same thing:


http://it-review.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1314&Itemid=1&limit=1&limitstart=2

Well there are many more.

2900 performs sometimes better, but generally on par with a 8800GTS, both on stock

My point is, you should NOT have to overclock to make it better, that's Nvidia's/Ati's job and their authorized board partners

Good news for ATI? I think they will be dominating mid-end, because Nvidia's mid-end is nothing creative

Wow, you pull one review and claim it tells the complete story. Go figure. :rolleyes:

[Trademark]

Wow, you pull one review and claim it tells the complete story. Go figure. :rolleyes:
No I do not, but there are alot of them wich state the exact same thing, most of them generally conclude that the 2900XT is a an acceptable card, it should have done better instead of competing with a GTS

[Redeemed]

No I do not, but there are alot of them wich state the exact same thing, most of them generally conclude that the 2900XT is a an acceptable card, it should have done better instead of competing with a GTS

So far Xion seems to have a far different experience with his XT than most of the reviewers did. Then again, he's probably inflating his scores cause he's an ATi fanboy, right? :lol:

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=91482&page=4

It really does boil down to drivers with this card. They seem to be capable of bringing vast performance improvements- unlike what we've seen from the GF 8 series.

[El_Sid]

Perhaps next time r650 ou whatever will be as powerful as G80.
Perhaps but as improbable as believe in ATI fanboy Xion's results and not in more trustful reviews.

It does not matter in the end because GF9 will destroy r6anything anytime.
I can just imagine how hard geforce "9800" will punch AMD and how hard nvidia is working to guarantee this right now.
There is strong symbolic revenge in next GF.

[Madpistol]

Perhaps next time r650 ou whatever will be as powerful as G80.
Perhaps but as improbable as believe in ATI fanboy Xion's results and not in more trustful reviews.

It does not matter in the end because GF9 will destroy r6anything anytime.
I can just imagine how hard geforce "9800" will punch AMD and how hard nvidia is working to guarantee this right now.
There is strong symbolic revenge in next GF.

That's the words of a fanboy if I ever heard them.

You should never assume that a product that hasn't been released is going to destroy another product because, as we all know, the HD 2900 XT is not the "G80 Killer" that it was hyped up to be, so it isn't safe to say that the G90 will own everything before it.

It's safe to say that Nvidia has a strong financial advantage over AMD currently. IF they use those finances to push their effort in the correct direction, then we may have a killer card next generation. However, we have to wait and see before we can say "it's true" ;)

Also, Xion just switched over from a pair of WC'd 8800 GTX's. If he's an ATI fanboy like you say he is, he disguised it really well while he used his 8800's. He switched because of repeated hardware problems, not because he's an ATI/AMD fanboy.

[El_Sid]

I would say that only a fanboy would buy a 2900Xt to prove or defend his long term opinion of r600 superiority.
So i'm not a fanboy and i will not try to prove more and initiate another long term discussion on that matter.

A chip based on g80 is probably much better than anything based on r600 because is based on a better architecture.
r650 will try to reach G80 and nothing more. Make no mistake.