View Full Version : R600vsG80 Benchmark Comparisons From Any Game Welcome!
First off, I wasn't trying to "show" anything. I knew that the Ultra would come out on top in the majority of the benchmarks.
And the Ultra is at factory clocks. I have the MSI which comes at 660/2300 stock. I now have mine at 702/2300 and stable. So if I allowed the Ultra its maximum overclock like I did the XT, then the margin in the tests would've been even worse than it was. I don't see why you think it would've been more fair to scale the clock back on the Ultra--that makes no sense. If I was going to do that, then to make it fair I would've scaled the clock back on the XT as well. The XT was actually favored in this case; it was overclocked to its max, and the Ultra wasn't.
You obviously were trying to show something or you wouldn't have said "Needless to say, the Ultra wins this one hands down." Obviously, somewhere you figured that a overclocked XT which is roughly $400 could possibly "win" (beat) the Ultra which was overclocked (612 is the nvidia core settings for the ultra.)
Thats a flawed concept. Take out the "win" out of the comparisons and it makes your comparisons much more interesting and much more valid. With the "wins" in there, you are just looking foolish. Everyone knew that an Ultra (overclocked) would beat a 2900XT overclocked...
So, lets do some math. A 2900xt at 743 core, being run at 875 core is 17.8% overclock on the core (matters much more than the memory overclock).
The Ultra's specs are 612. Yours runs at 660, thus 7.8% overclock on the core ( I am not even going to get into the memory overclock).
So the 2900xt is already about 20+% slower than the $200 dollar more ultra, now add in a 10% increase on the OC compared to the ultras OC (and a 10% boost in overclock doesn't always equal a 10% performance gain all around), and it still loses? Suprised?
The reason I said to scale the clocks back to nvidia specs on the ultra is this. Can a overclocked 2900xt that costs $400 come anywhere close to an Ultra at stock settings. This is more for my knowledge rather than actually thinking its something you should spend your time on. My guess is a overclocked 2900xt at 875 core will actually holds its own against a GTX fairly well, not always, but most of the time.
Lastly, I like the information you provided. I like seeing where my cards stands in relation to other products I just wish it was presented a tad differently.
Another example. You have a BMW M3 vs a Dodge NEO SRT4 that is modified but the M3 is slighty modified too. The SRT4 knows it can't stand a chance, but wants to race to see how it compares. Sure the M3 "wins" everytime, but thats not the important fact. The important fact is that a 20k car with 2k in modifications is slightly slower than a 55k car with 5k in modifications.
At the end of the day I appreciate all the hard work you did. It was cool to see the comparisons, the graphs, the numbers and fps and all. It would be fun to have both to compare to one another thats for sure. I would have done the same thing :) The only difference is I would have made it a comparison, not a competition. There is no competition when you are being compared to something that is in a completly different ballpark.
:lol2: is that guy drunk?
:lol2: is that guy drunk?
Negative, just typing crappy cause I wanted to get back to TF2 :)
Xion X2
10-08-07, 01:34 AM
You obviously were trying to show something or you wouldn't have said "Needless to say, the Ultra wins this one hands down." Obviously, somewhere you figured that a overclocked XT which is roughly $400 could possibly "win" (beat) the Ultra which was overclocked (612 is the nvidia core settings for the ultra.)
You need to quit reading so much into things, because you really have no clue of my true intentions unless you're some sort of psychic mind-reader.
My comment "needless to say..." was nothing but an observation. Nothing more. I wasn't trying to show anywhere that a 400$ XT could possibly beat an Ultra. How many damn times do I have to say that it was also an act of self-discovery on my part by just wanting to see how much of a difference there was between the two cards? You obviously don't get it.
Thats a flawed concept. Take out the "win" out of the comparisons and it makes your comparisons much more interesting and much more valid. With the "wins" in there, you are just looking foolish.
Quit being so overdefensive, for gods sake. The "win" terminology was nothing more than a casual observation. No need to get your panties in a bunch.
The only one looking "foolish" in here is you with your overdefensive tripe.
Everyone knew that an Ultra (overclocked) would beat a 2900XT overclocked...
The issue was never whether it would win or lose but by how much. That's the point of the entire benchmark. And the benches tell the entire story of the XT. It competes very well in some games (is practically dead even in Airborne) and gets killed in others. As I said before, inconsistency is the problem that I have with it.
The reason I said to scale the clocks back to nvidia specs on the ultra is this. Can a overclocked 2900xt that costs $400 come anywhere close to an Ultra at stock settings. This is more for my knowledge rather than actually thinking its something you should spend your time on.
Exactly. There's no logic whatsoever involved in your philosophy here; it's only for your own personal amusement--of which I couldn't care less about.
It makes no sense to compare an overclocked XT with a non-OC'd Ultra other than to avoid hurting someone's feelings. And I'd rather spend time dwelling on the facts and hard figures. You can always overclock the Ultra to squeeze more performance out of it and increase the gap again.
You sound like nothing more than the typical individual who doesn't want to shell out the money for the top graphics card and goes around bragging to all his pals about how HIS overclocks to the same speed--all the while somehow fooling himself into believing that you can't overclock the superior card as well and increase the gap in performance again.
My guess is a overclocked 2900xt at 875 core will actually holds its own against a GTX fairly well, not always, but most of the time.
No.. it doesn't. I've owned both, and the GTX is clearly the stronger card. Even at stock speeds it is stronger than an overclocked XT in most games. There are hundreds of posts on this very topic which show this. Many of us have been benchmarking the cards for the last 3 months.
R600 has architectural issues with AA and fillrate that cannot be remedied on the whole with higher clocks.
The only difference is I would have made it a comparison, not a competition.
The only one turning this into a competition is you. And I couldn't care less about your semantics. The bench was meant to be nothing more than a fun comparison between two of the top cards on the market. It wasn't meant to be taken personally like you seem to have taken it.
And lastly, you can take your politically-correct, patronizing, backhanded comments and shove them. You may want to take a glance at the mirror next time before you go calling people "foolish."
Woah have a tissy. You went from 2 8800gtx's to one 2900xt to one 8800 ultra. That is foolish.
I am not getting defensive dude, I just want the facts to be shown. People make decisions based on shiz that they read and you obviously have tried to influence someones decision by this "competition" between the two not comparable cards. Comparing is one thing, competing is different.
And, for a matter of fact, many reviewers when comparing a new video card, will in fact overclock the video card and compare it to other stock video cards. This isn't abnormal. But, that isn't something you NEED or HAVE to do, I wasn't asking you too, it was something that interests me :)
And as for the money, I easily could have bought a GTX or ultra or what ever, but e-peen isn't what interests me. In fact, my PC would give yours a run for its money and I probably spent half of what you spent on yours :)
I will finish with this. Thanks for giving the numbers. Its good to see how things compare, even if they aren't apples to apples. I am sure you spent a crap ton of time doing it, from switching out the cards and the water and shiz, much appreciated. You are lucky to have had such a selection of video cards at your disposal!
fivefeet8
10-08-07, 04:18 AM
Comparisons can be made from many points. Not only price. ;) Whether price should be taken into consideration is up to the person looking at the benches. Either you're looking with some cost considerations in mind or none at all. If you still don't know how much the 2 cards being benched costs, then you're the foolish one.
KasuCode
10-08-07, 04:52 AM
Woah have a tissy. You went from 2 8800gtx's to one 2900xt to one 8800 ultra. That is foolish.
If you actualy read this thread or many others on these forums you would have known why he did what he did. And I would have done the same thing givin his situation.
And, for a matter of fact, many reviewers when comparing a new video card, will in fact overclock the video card and compare it to other stock video cards.
And because there are many that do that why would we want to see something we already know the answer to. I like the way he is comparing the cards. I think its diffrent.
I will finish with this. Thanks for giving the numbers. Its good to see how things compare, even if they aren't apples to apples. I am sure you spent a crap ton of time doing it, from switching out the cards and the water and shiz, much appreciated. You are lucky to have had such a selection of video cards at your disposal!
:D :D :D :D :D Yay! now lets go get ice cream!
Xion X2
10-08-07, 09:05 PM
Woah have a tissy. You went from 2 8800gtx's to one 2900xt to one 8800 ultra. That is foolish.
Screw you and your judgment of my actions, wise-a**. What I do with my money or time should be none of your concern unless you're just some jealous, insecure pr*ck who likes to get off by talking big on the internet. I ditched my GTXs earlier because I was out of work at the time and needed the money by cashing them off. So what do you say to that, Miss Cleo?
and you obviously have tried to influence someones decision by this "competition" between the two not comparable cards.
Do you go about your life making so many blind accusations of people?
How the f*ck do you know that this is what I was doing? Why would I be trying to sway people toward an Nvidia product when I have repeatedly told people what a hunk of crap the 680i platform is on this forum? Do you even bother to conduct the tiniest scintilla of research into someone's posting background before you go running off at the mouth? There are several on this forum who are bound to be laughing their butts off behind the scenes right now because they've considered me the "ATI Fanboy" around here with as passionately as I've defended the 2900XT since its launch. And now you're accusing me of intentionally leading folks to buy an Nvidia card?
My god.. where do you people come from? You just seem to crawl out of the woodwork sometimes. Are you a parody? You have to be.
And as for the money, I easily could have bought a GTX or ultra or what ever, but e-peen isn't what interests me. In fact, my PC would give yours a run for its money and I probably spent half of what you spent on yours :)
Here we go again. Miss Cleo just automatically "knows" that I bought my Ultra for my "e-peen" instead of the fact that it beats her 2900XT significantly in DirectX10. Yes, that's why I REALLY bought it. I actually just wanted to impress a bunch of people on the internet (most who are thousands of miles away and who I'll never meet) instead of playing all of my DirectX10 games over 20 frames/second or having a card that truly benefits from a watercooling setup (since the Ultra overclocks more than the GTX with proper cooling.)
Do yourself a favor. Shut that damn computer off, hop in the shower, throw some clothes on, open that front door, and walk your ass outside and get some sunlight. There is an entire world out there beyond the internet. It's time you went exploring. But you may want to throw a strip of tape over that mouth of yours first so it doesn't get you into any more trouble.
I will finish with this. Thanks for giving the numbers.
http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/dvv/boid.gif
KasuCode
10-08-07, 09:12 PM
http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/dvv/boid.gif
lol
Always funny then 8800Ultra owners defend there purchase, 8800GTX/Ultra basically will give the same gaming experience yet some buy the ultra and others the GTX.. Now why is that? Oh yes, epenis. :p
Xion X2
10-08-07, 09:48 PM
Always funny then 8800Ultra owners defend there purchase, 8800GTX/Ultra basically will give the same gaming experience yet some buy the ultra and others the GTX.. Now why is that? Oh yes, epenis. :p
Actually, I think there are just a lot of jealous b!tches out there like yourself who can't stand the fact that there's a card in existence that's a little faster than theirs. Why would I buy a GTX if I had an extra 80-100$ more for an Ultra that would go 75MHz higher on its core clock with the proper cooling, like H20? That's a 7-8fps advantage in some games. For those of us who don't want to go SLI and have the money to spend, it's the only choice. It's the strongest single-card solution on the market right now.
How would you feel if a GTS owner claimed you bought your GTX for "e-peen" reasons? You may as well be telling all the guys with GTS SLI the same thing, because they spent more on their cards than I did for mine. Simpletons like yourself often throw out the "e-peen" comments when most of the time it's not the case. Most of us are just graphics junkies and don't want to turn settings down in our games.
Actually, I think there are just a lot of jealous b!tches out there like yourself who can't stand the fact that there's a card in existence that's a little faster than theirs. Why would I buy a GTX if I had an extra 100$ more for an Ultra that would go 75MHz higher on its core clock with the proper cooling, like H20? That's a 7-8fps advantage in some games.
How would you feel if a GTS owner claimed you bought yours for "e-peen" reasons?
Don't be stupid, 8800GTX is around 30% faster then a 8800GTS, theres a clear difference.
There is no such difference between a GTX or Ultra or overclocked GTX vs overclocked Ultra. :captnkill:
Xion X2
10-08-07, 09:58 PM
Don't be stupid, 8800GTX is around 30% faster then a 8800GTS, theres a clear difference.
There's also a larger price difference, too. I only paid 579$ for my Ultra, which is about 80$ more than the lowest priced GTX I saw around at the time.
So tell me why an extra 80$ isn't worth another 75MHz on the core and an extra 300MHz on the memory?
There's also a larger price difference, too. I only paid 579$ for my Ultra, which is about 80$ more than the lowest priced GTX I saw around at the time.
So tell me why an extra 80$ isn't worth another 75MHz on the core?
Sure, like i'm going to believe you couldn't get a 8800GTX for significately less.
As for the core advantage, big deal, it doesnt make much difference and I know this because my 8800GTX is overclocked by 100MHz. Does it make any noticable difference from stock? not really no. ;)
Would I pay money for that overclock? Umm, certainly not.
Xion X2
10-08-07, 10:09 PM
Sure, like i'm going to believe you couldn't get a 8800GTX for significately less.
Well then read it for yourself, wise-ass:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010380048+106791921+1067924921&name=GeForce+8800GTX
Lowest priced GTX = 499$.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127288
Lowest priced Ultra = 594$
Big whoop. 95 bucks for noticeably better performance.
As for the core advantage, big deal, it doesnt make much difference and I know this because my 8800GTX is overclocked by 100MHz. Does it make any noticable difference from stock? not really no. ;)
What are your clocks at right now?
Big whoop. 95 bucks for noticeably better performance.
What are your clocks at right now?
Only in your dreams is it noticeably faster, cards is currently at 575/1800.
Xion X2
10-08-07, 10:26 PM
Only in your dreams is it noticeably faster, cards is currently at 575/1800.
Whatever, bud. :rolleyes: I've had my clocks at 720 on the core and 2350 on the memory which is noticeably more than you can stretch that GTX of yours.
Not saying the GTX isn't a hell of a card, because it is. But Price/performance all comes down to the buyer. If we were talking 200-300$ more for an Ultra than a GTX it'd be a different story. But we're talking 90 bucks. Big effen' deal.. you just want something to run your mouth about.
Whatever, bud. :rolleyes: I've had my clocks at 720 on the core and 2350 on the memory which is noticeably more than you can stretch that GTX of yours.
Not saying the GTX isn't a hell of a card, because it is. But Price/performance all comes down to the buyer. If we were talking 200-300$ more for an Ultra than a GTX it'd be a different story. But we're talking 90 bucks. Big effen' deal.. you just want something to run your mouth about.
Yes, the numbers are noticabaly faster then 675/2052 but the performance is not. ;)
Infact the real world difference in the latest games is around 10% which is the difference of 3-4fps which is pathetic.
KasuCode
10-08-07, 11:03 PM
Always funny then 8800Ultra owners defend there purchase, 8800GTX/Ultra basically will give the same gaming experience yet some buy the ultra and others the GTX.. Now why is that? Oh yes, epenis.
Who gives a sh*t. Just because it’s not worth it to you doesn’t mean the same for the next person. People spend lots of money just to squeeze that extra 100 MHz out of there system or whatever the case may be just because it’s a hobby.
One of the reasons I got my 2900XT is because it’s something different to play with instead of the 8800GTS. Different tools to overclock with. Different experience. I love playing with new hardware. I found it more fun as a hobby to get something different.
Thats what separates enthusiast from people that can’t justify a price/performance difference.
Please dont come on here giving people in this thread a hard time. If you dont have anything to give to this thread please post your comments elsewhere.
Blacklash
10-08-07, 11:15 PM
This article right here at Nvnews shows the difference between a stock GTX and an Ultra @ 675|1674-
http://www.nvnews.net/reviews/xfx_geforce_8800_ultra_xxx/page_5.shtml
Here is an Ultra @ 612 vs 675:
http://www.nvnews.net/reviews/xfx_geforce_8800_ultra_xxx/page_6.shtml
Same review.
Some of us OC because it's fun :p
Screw you and your judgment of my actions, wise-a**. What I do with my money or time should be none of your concern unless you're just some jealous, insecure pr*ck who likes to get off by talking big on the internet. I ditched my GTXs earlier because I was out of work at the time and needed the money by cashing them off. So what do you say to that, Miss Cleo?
Do you go about your life making so many blind accusations of people?
How the f*ck do you know that this is what I was doing? Why would I be trying to sway people toward an Nvidia product when I have repeatedly told people what a hunk of crap the 680i platform is on this forum? Do you even bother to conduct the tiniest scintilla of research into someone's posting background before you go running off at the mouth? There are several on this forum who are bound to be laughing their butts off behind the scenes right now because they've considered me the "ATI Fanboy" around here with as passionately as I've defended the 2900XT since its launch. And now you're accusing me of intentionally leading folks to buy an Nvidia card?
My god.. where do you people come from? You just seem to crawl out of the woodwork sometimes. Are you a parody? You have to be.
Here we go again. Miss Cleo just automatically "knows" that I bought my Ultra for my "e-peen" instead of the fact that it beats her 2900XT significantly in DirectX10. Yes, that's why I REALLY bought it. I actually just wanted to impress a bunch of people on the internet (most who are thousands of miles away and who I'll never meet) instead of playing all of my DirectX10 games over 20 frames/second or having a card that truly benefits from a watercooling setup (since the Ultra overclocks more than the GTX with proper cooling.)
Earlier you say "You sound like nothing more than the typical individual who doesn't want to shell out the money for the top graphics card and goes around bragging to all his pals about how HIS overclocks to the same speed--all the while somehow fooling himself into believing that you can't overclock the superior card as well and increase the gap in performance again."
I am about price/performance not about e-peen. I care about spending my money wisely on something that will give me results.You obviously don't care about spending your money wisely, so don't give me a story about how I am not willing to SHELL OUT THE MONEY for a top graphics card. You shelled out the money 4 times ....
Btw, never did I refer to the 680i platform, only to your comparison (more like a competition) between the 8800 ultra and the 2900xt. Don't make up stuff that I didn't discuss. Maybe you aren't trying to "sway" others that the 8800ultra is better, maybe you are just trying to convince yourself that switching video cards all the time makes your 8800 ultra purchase all that better?
I am also with the guy on the 8800gtx. Both cards are much better than my 2900xt, no doubt. But the top of the line has always been more about e-peen than actual price/performance. That's not to say I wouldn't want one, but as a conscious buyer it wouldn't be something I would pick up.
Again, thanks for your results. They at least give us an idea of what an extra $200 will buy you.
KasuCode
10-09-07, 12:08 AM
I care about spending my money wisely on something that will give me results.You obviously don't care about spending your money wisely,
Half the stuff in are world wouldnt exist if we spent are money wisely. :D
Xion X2
10-09-07, 12:12 AM
I am about price/performance not about e-peen.
I am the same, yet you insinuate about me with your stupid-ass "e-peen" comments. And I already told you that you can shove your backhanded insults straight up your *** sideways. You don't know what in the hell you're talking about or who you're talking to, and it's best to avoid judging people when that's the case.
I mean, what the hell is your problem, pal? You don't know me. You've spent no time around me in person, and yet you're going to throw insults and backhanded assumptions my direction and claim that you do? Claim that you know my mindset at every turn?
You're a straight-up ass. Nothing but a little troll who likes to flex his muscles on the internet at those he feels inferior to because his computer can't keep up.
I care about spending my money wisely on something that will give me results.You obviously don't care about spending your money wisely
Another stupid assumption. Who says, you? Why do you want to insinuate that I "don't care about spending money wisely" just because I buy a superior card to yours? Yeah it costs more, so what? It also performs better than your XT, so the price increase is justified.
If you don't think it is, then good for you. But it doesn't make your opinion objective or universal, or a fact like you seem to believe it is.
You shelled out the money 4 times ....
It's none of your damn business what I've done. What are you some sort of stalker? What have you been lusting after me on the forum for the past year since I owned my GTX's?
Btw, never did I refer to the 680i platform, only to your comparison (more like a competition) between the 8800 ultra and the 2900xt. Don't make up stuff that I didn't discuss. Maybe you aren't trying to "sway" others that the 8800ultra is better
Think below the surface and see the parallel. You claim one second that I'm trying to sway people towards an Nvidia product over an ATi product. If that were the case, then I wouldn't stop at video cards. I wouldn't be telling others whenever I'm asked to skip 680i and SLI and go with an Intel chipset.
Your double-standard logic and accusations fall flat on their face. They're downright ignorant.
maybe you are just trying to convince yourself that switching video cards all the time makes your 8800 ultra purchase all that better?
And maybe you're just a jealous bee-yotch that can't let someone enjoy their hardware because they hate seeing their XT take a beating?
But the top of the line has always been more about e-peen than actual price/performance.
Well it's not when there's only a 90$ difference and a noticeable increase in performance like in the benches Blacklash posted earlier. And that's where you two don't seem to be able to think logically.
And here's a tip. Next time you insult me, don't bother thanking me at the end of your post. It sort of loses its luster that way. I don't know what sort of gullible souls this tactic works on in your little corner of the world, but it has no bearing with me.
Xion X2
10-09-07, 12:25 AM
Half the stuff in are world wouldnt exist if we spent are money wisely. :D
I'd like to see this guy get in the faces of some BMW owners and shout his tripe. I can see it now..
HEY U WHY DIDN TU BY A CAMRY DUDDEE!!11 U WASTD ALL THAT MONEY U MUST NOT LIKE SPENDING UR MONEY WISELY!!1111 C IM SMARTER AND BETTRE THEN U VECAUSE I SPENT MY MONEY WISE_LY!!!1111
I swear, I get so sick of individuals who can only see in black & white. See, it seems in this guy's world that someone who buys a BMW or Mercedes or, specifically mentioned, an M3 is nothing but a yuppie prick who throws his money away. He can't see that individual as someone who may just enjoy a well-refined piece of German craftsmanship and enjoy driving around a car that you don't see at every stoplight you come to.
No, he's just someone who enjoys pissing money away and is inferior to him because he doesn't pinch pennies like he does.
Why can't people think outside the box? Why can't they just understand that people have different likes/dislikes/tastes instead of always insulting or insinuating that anything that disagrees with their mindset is ignorant?
I keep saying it, but I'll say it again. I-N-S-E-C-U-R-I-T-Y. There are a lot of insecure little ******* in this world today, and for whatever reason computer hardware forums seem to be filled to the brim with them.
Well, that was my grand finale because I'm out of here. I've had enough of all of this preschool nonsense. Code, I'll be over at XtremeSystems if you want to follow me over there for the continued benches. I'll try to get them up in a few days.
I own a subaru legacy gt that is slightly modified. It would destroy most BMW's that cost 30 grand more than mine. So your car assumptions don't hold any ground with me brother. It's the same with video cards. You might have spent 70% more than me, but do you have 70% performance?
As far as being jealous, I promise you I am not. I spent $350 on a happy overclocked 2900xt vs 2x8800 gtx's for you + a 2900xt + a 8800 ultra. Subtract all your costs, and thats really what your ultra cost you and I am sure it wasn't less than $600 :)
I only brought that up man because you seem to bring it up in your posts. Someone insecure has to defend their purchases by stating reasons that they do it. If you didn't care, you wouldn't have said anything at all about it.
And again, trust me. Computer hardware forums aren't the end all in life. They are great to discuss information, spread valid information, and inform those who need/want to be informed. You took it upon yourself to spend a crap ton of time informing others and you did it well regardless of my accusations about it being more of a competition than an actual comparison.
I have never been one to have to buy the latest and greatest. Keeping up with the Jones's isn't in my interest. If having the latest and greatest makes you happy, by golly keep doing it. I promise you, me discussing video card results with you had nothing to do about yours or my ability to purchase a particular card, it had everything to do with your "competition" and me trying to point out its minute flaws amongst all your hard work. It ended up escalating too far, my bad. I should have just asked you "was this a competition, It seemed like that from the "win" comments you posted. Inform me otherwise."
Sorry it escalated, my bad. Keep up the good work.
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