DVDTalk: Terminator 2 HD DVD beats T2 Blu-Ray [Archive]

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Ruined

06-01-07, 05:35 PM

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10681854&&#post10681854

I watched the full Extended Cut last night and did a quick comparison to the Blu-ray. The HD DVD is decidedly sharper and has more saturated colors. It's not perfect, unfortunately. It has some of the same problems as the BD, including a touch of edge ringing, some white clipping, and minor compression problems here and there. It looks good overall. I'll try to crank out a full review soon.
The French 2-disc HD DVD set (Theatrical + Extended Edition) is currently available from amazon.fr (http://amazon.fr/o/ASIN/B000L42JP4/ref=s9_asin_image_1-serq_g1/403-7582292-1976433?pf_rd_m=A1X6FK5RDHNB96&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=1TS7Q67AJK85ET9HEGWT) and xploitedcinema.com (http://xploitedcinema.com/catalog/terminator-judgment-french-release-p-11233.html) if you want it NOW. :)

A slightly more English-friendly UK single disc Extended Edition-only HD DVD will be available for preorder within a month or so from http://amazon.co.uk

Note that only the Extended Edition disc from the French version is English-friendly, as the theatrical version has forced French subtitles when selecting the English soundtrack (you can resize them and move them into the LBX bar however). The Extended edition does not have forced subtitles and in fact the entire menu is in English, it was clearly the same disc that will be in the UK version released later.

The UK version will be identical to disc 2 of the French version - Extended cut, English audio, no forced subs, region free, 1080p24 w/ lossless DTS-HD Master Audio. English Audio tracks have been compared to the R1 DVD release and the audio is perfect, no speedup.

I am waiting for the region-free UK version since I want the English cover art and the Extended Cut is better anyway IMO. Plus, the theatrical disc of the French version is pretty worthless to me with the forced subs (even if tiny). I'll of course post when the AMAZON.CO.UK preorder for T2: Extended Edition is available :)

superklye

06-01-07, 05:49 PM

I don't understand. Doesn't BD have more gigabytes?

evilchris

06-01-07, 07:09 PM

Yeah.... 50 gigabytes should look better than 30 gigabytes. I don't what's going on here. Maybe they are fanboys.

OWA

06-01-07, 07:22 PM

Can't blame the format if the publisher didn't choose to take advantage of the higher capacity, higher bitrate, etc. :)

evilchris

06-01-07, 07:24 PM

Can't blame the format if the publisher didn't choose to take advantage of the higher capacity, higher bitrate, etc. :)
Funny, no one has, because not a single Blu-ray title can approach even the tier 1 HD DVD's.

Higher bitrare sure would make VC-1 look better huh! OWA do you know *anything* about either format?

Keep blaming the publisher, ignoring the fact that the format and its lack of standards are at fault. Enjoying your BD-J? Oh yeah I forgot, not "finalized" yet. IME sure is awesome in The Matrix trilogy!

OWA

06-01-07, 07:28 PM

Check outside your little MS controlled world and you'll find that blu-ray is getting props for their releases. Sorry to break the news though man.

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/reviewshd/hidefreviews004.html#pi1

Simply put, Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest delivers what is arguably the best looking 1080p video available yet on any HD disc format, and it adds audio quality and extras to match.

http://www.upcomingdiscs.com/dvd_review.php?id=6853&rtype=disc_type

For this transfer Disney went with 50GB Blu-ray disc (BD50) and glorious AVC transfer in the 2.35:1 aspect ratio and the average bit rate ranges from 35 to 38 Mbps. In short ladies and gentleman this Pirates movie gives us the new benchmark in picture quality for HD optical. Up until this point, both Crank on Blu-ray and King Kong on HD DVD were the films to beat in HD optical picture quality. I was fortunate enough to watch the new Matrix Collection HD DVD box set yesterday, and not even it rivals this Curse of the Black Pearl disc. At no point in viewing Pirates did I experience any macro blocking or any noise of any type. I could not believe this considering the amount of both bright and dark scenes and also the amount action sequences. Also the film was extremely sharp and clear and free of any film debris and I mean zero debris whatsoever. I have not experienced this as of yet on HD optical until the viewing of this disc. This disc also contained little to no film grain. Colors (and this is a very colorful film) were extremely vibrant and flesh tones were spot-on. This disc is truly an AMAZING benchmark in picture quality.

http://www.upcomingdiscs.com/dvd_review.php?id=6853&rtype=disc_type

As I said previously in this review, we have the new benchmark for both picture quality and audio quality for HD optical. If there were ever a movie or movies you wanted to show your friends and family to show-off your home theater set-up, Curse of the Black Pearl is it. This disc is absolutely stunning in terms of picture quality and amazing in terms of audio quality. Having watched this film over 24 hours ago, the smile has still not left my face and I am anxious to watch it again with friends. In short, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND the purchase of Curse of the Black Pearl, regardless if you are a fan or not of the movies, as they are pure eye and ear candy and will not let anyone down.

http://www.upcomingdiscs.com/dvd_review.php?id=6855&rtype=disc_type

Along with Curse of the Black Pearl, Dead Man’s Chest offers a new benchmark for both picture quality and audio quality for HD optical. If there were ever a movie you wanted to show your friends and family to show-off your home theater set-up, Dead Man’s Chest is it. This disc is absolutely stunning in terms of picture quality and amazing in terms of audio quality. Having watched this film over 24 hours ago, the smile has still not left my face and I am anxious to watch it again with friends. In short, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND the purchase of Dead Man’s Chest, regardless if you are a fan or not of the movies, as they are pure eye and ear candy and will not let anyone down.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/showthread.php?p=3156235#post3156235

Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest is banner release for the Blu-ray format. Not only is the film portion of this release given its very own BD-50, the AVC encode has been maxed out with the highest possible bit rates for maximum quality. The results are nothing short of stunning and Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest sports the finest HD transfer I have ever seen, regardless of format. Make no mistake, the results of this extra bandwidth are visible in every scene in the film. Colors are stunningly rendered with an absolutely astonishing amount of detail. Black levels are rock solid with an amazing sense of depth and the artifact-free picture literally pops off the screen throughout the film. There is never a weak moment or a scene that doesn’t hold up to the rest of the film. This transfer is completely consistent in its excellence.

http://www.dvdverdict.com/reviews/piratesblackpearlbluray.php

Disney has set the new standard in high definition quality with Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest. This disc should be at the top of your list for reference and demo material.

It was the rare perfect storm of cast and crew coming together at the right time to create something very special. And Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl is a gem that doesn't lose any of its luster with repeated viewings. Like the attraction itself, this world is so immersive that you are disappointed when it's time to leave. But you're excited by the fact that you can always return again one day to relive the magic.

Bravo to the Disney engineers for establishing a new industry standard.

http://hometheaterspot.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/137256/pid/822518/post/last/m/1/#LAST

Pirates of the Caribbean is one of those format selling franchises that you wish they didn’t even announce until they were ready for release, as the anticipation is a killer. But finally the wait is over and Disney does not disappoint. This BD delivers on the promise of high definition. It makes the DVD look and sound about as faithful as VHS, and far outperforms the theatrical showing I went to. One of the biggest franchises to come to high definition, Disney gives Pirates’ its due and fans their reward, a timely refresher for the theatrical release of the third.

evilchris

06-01-07, 08:55 PM

GamerGuyX

06-02-07, 12:45 AM

ENU291

06-02-07, 12:52 AM

OWA just got owned so hard even I felt it. http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e182/1337_GamerGuyX/owned-41174.jpg
QFT! I don't know why he even bothers anymore.

OWA

06-02-07, 01:04 AM

I beg to differ. I have BOTH Pirates movies right now from Netflix and own The Matrix trilogy. The Matrix HD DVD's are the best I have *ever* seen.

BTW wtf does "MS" have to with HD DVD and home theater? Lose your PS3 fanboyism and focus on MOVIES instead.

Would you like to compare "my little world" to yours? I've been into this before you sprouted your first little PS3 boner and have been into high end A/V for over a decade. You are a little kid who bought the latest gaming console and thinks he's an authority on HD by reading teh internetz. Fact is I have a superior HD DVD player over yours, a superior BD player over yours, a superior pre/pro over yours, and a superior display over yours. You're the one locked inside a little world.
No, I just base my decisions on more than one source. You seem to discount everything other than your own opinion. I mentioned MS b/c they seem to have a heavy hand in what is going on at AVS and that's your golden source. It doesn't matter if I provide 20 links from hi-def sites with people contradicting what you say, you just dismiss it as fodder b/c you have the ultimate in HT and always know better than everyone else, lol.

I don't care if your equipment is superior to mine, I'm not trying to compete with you. I just find it funny that you dismiss articles, reviews, etc. by people that judge hi-def day in and day out just b/c it doesn't suit whatever cause you're for.

I don't consider myself locked in a little world b/c I actually form my own opinions and research the stuff I'm interested in. I said you were b/c you just seem to ask someone what to think and also seem to discount any other sources of info that doesn't jive with your already formed conclusions. Maybe narrow-minded would have been a better way to put it.

Also, I never claimed to be an A/V expert. When I provide info, it's info I've found from various hi-def sites. Like the 5 sites I quoted above. When I said that movies using the same video codecs would look the same (and sometimes even when not using the same codec they look the same), I was mostly talking about all the reviews at hidefdigest, not my own opinion. No need to take my word for it, just look at any of the hi-def sites.

Mr_LoL

06-02-07, 03:17 AM

(popcorn)

Rakeesh

06-02-07, 04:41 AM

Yeah.... 50 gigabytes should look better than 30 gigabytes. I don't what's going on here. Maybe they are fanboys.

Mmmm...not necessarily. I can see where HD-DVD has an advantage, namely they are a bit more strict as far as quality control goes in that they set higher minimum standards than the Blu-Ray camp has set.

Blu-Ray indeed has the physical capability of going further than HD-DVD does, by quite a long shot. However, both content producers and hardware manufacturers are allowed to be a lot more lazy when it comes to making blu-ray products.

Just as an example, manufacturers are allowed to make blu-ray players that don't support dolby truehd at all, and content producers are allowed to make discs that don't include truehd tracks. HD-DVD on the other hand, all discs are required to have a truehd soundtrack, and all device manufacturers are required to include truehd playback support.

Again, that is just an example, as there are many other bits and pieces specifying color accuracy, encoding quality and other technical bits that I for the most part have little understanding of, where HD-DVD sets a higher minimum standard than blu-ray from what I have heard.

But remember that in spite of that, it is still physically possible for blu-ray content to go further than HD-DVD, just not required.

Personally I have little to no interest in investing in either format right now.

EDIT: Oh, I see you were being sarcastic :D Well, what I said still stands. I really don't favor either format, so you effectively have my objective opinion anyways.

Ruined

06-02-07, 11:42 AM

More!

Okay, here's my comments on the new Studio Canal HD DVD edition of Terminator 2...

The background is this. Lionsgate has US distribution for this film. T2 was a fairly early Blu-ray release for them. Lionsgate's BD is a BD25 with MPEG-2 encoding. For whatever reason, Lionsgate has elected to release only the 137 min. theatrical version of the film in the US. Studio Canal, a French company, was one of the co-production companies of the film, and holds international distribution rights.

Studio Canal also supports the HD DVD format. For the French HD DVD release, Studio Canal has released T2 as a 2-disc set using the VC-1 codec. Disc 1 is the theatrical version of the film intended solely for the French market which means the disc has been authored with French subtitles that cannot be turned off if English language audio is selected. That's Studio Canal's policy for France-only releases. The second disc is the 152 min. "Director's Cut" version of the film that was previously released on the "Ultimate Edition" DVD in the US. Note this is not the 156 min. "extended" version also available on the "Ultimate Edition" DVD which has the tacked on Coda ending with an aged Sarah Connor in a park with a voiceover. This is what I consider the best version of the film as it includes several scenes and extensions of scenes that I find enhances the story yet it leaves off the "Coda" ending which becomes illogical with the release of Terminator 3.

It is this Director's Cut disc that is of interest so me, and I expect, quite a few other fans of the film. While the theatrical version has the "forced" subtitles, the Director's Cut disc will be released by Studio Canal in the UK. Because of this, there are no forced subtitles, and indeed, the default playback of the disc is English audio (the only track available) with no subtitles. This disc also contains what is to my eye, the finest video presentation of this film to date.

Having been a fan of this film since its original theatrical run in 1991, I have seen what I believe to be every video release except VHS. This of course includes the several laserdisc and DVD incarnations. I even had the D-Theater hi-def digital VHS edition of this film. It is this background that I base my observations of this new HD DVD edition on. Compared to all that came before, this new HD DVD edition is clearly the finest presentation of Terminator 2 to date (no pun intended).

The most immediate comparison is to Lionsgate's Blu-ray edition, as well as the theatrical version included in the HD DVD set. beginning with the theatrical edition, it appears that the HD DVD and Blu-ray came from the same master, a master that looks to have ben "pushed" to increase the visible contrast. This leads to blown out whites and some crushing of detail in blacks, as well as what some would describe as "edge enhancement". Colors are a bit overstaurated compared to the Director's Cut disc.

Although both these discs appear to be sourced from the same master, the MPEG-2 and VC-1 encodes show some fairly noticeable differences. The MPEG encode on Blu-ray is visibly softer with a bit less fine detail. There is also visible blocking where film grain is present. The VC-1 encode is both smoother and sharper with greater detail and less artifacting associated with the film grain. Even so, the master that was struck for the Director's Cut is quite obviously superior to the master used for the theatrical version.

The transfer for the Director's Cut has a more natural appearance with greater detail in both very dark and very bright areas and a more even color balance. The image is also a bit sharper than even the VC-1 encode of the theatrical version. This encoding also preserves the grain structure of the film element without overt compression artifacts.

With the somewhat limited time I have had to compare these discs I cannot comment on a comparison of audio tracks except to say I found the DTS-HD audio track on the Director's Cut version to convey all the impact and subtlety that I remember from any other version with, perhaps, a bit more authority in the lower octave and a bit more smoothness in the upper frequencies. Certainly nothing lacking in the sound department.

Rarely do the planets line up perfectly in the universe, but for fans of the Director's Cut version of Terminator 2, it seems we have a gift in the form of this French HD DVD release. Combine what I consider the best version of the film with a HD DVD authored without hindrances of any sort, and mastered and encoded as the finest visual quality this film has seen since release day 16 years ago, and you get a true treat for the film enthusiast. Although it feels more like an accident that everything worked out as it has for this disc, it is a very happy accident indeed.

superklye

06-02-07, 11:57 AM

Just as an example, manufacturers are allowed to make blu-ray players that don't support dolby truehd at all, and content producers are allowed to make discs that don't include truehd tracks. HD-DVD on the other hand, all discs are required to have a truehd soundtrack, and all device manufacturers are required to include truehd playback support.
It's not mandatory for discs to have a True HD soundtrack. I've got plenty that only have DD, DD+ and/or DTS.

But every player has to support decoding of True HD. Hell, even the 360 will decode it, but it converts it to either DD or DTS before it gets output to the receiver.

CainSyris

06-07-07, 09:27 PM

Mmmm...not necessarily. I can see where HD-DVD has an advantage, namely they are a bit more strict as far as quality control goes in that they set higher minimum standards than the Blu-Ray camp has set.

Blu-Ray indeed has the physical capability of going further than HD-DVD does, by quite a long shot. However, both content producers and hardware manufacturers are allowed to be a lot more lazy when it comes to making blu-ray products.

Just as an example, manufacturers are allowed to make blu-ray players that don't support dolby truehd at all, and content producers are allowed to make discs that don't include truehd tracks. HD-DVD on the other hand, all discs are required to have a truehd soundtrack, and all device manufacturers are required to include truehd playback support.

Again, that is just an example, as there are many other bits and pieces specifying color accuracy, encoding quality and other technical bits that I for the most part have little understanding of, where HD-DVD sets a higher minimum standard than blu-ray from what I have heard.

But remember that in spite of that, it is still physically possible for blu-ray content to go further than HD-DVD, just not required.

Personally I have little to no interest in investing in either format right now.

EDIT: Oh, I see you were being sarcastic :D Well, what I said still stands. I really don't favor either format, so you effectively have my objective opinion anyways.

A lot of incorrect or exaggerated information in here.

1) Stricter quality? Tell that to the owners of the HD-A1 (Here's a hint, I own one) that could never watch a movie without an audio/video sync problem cropping up. A poll on AVSFORUM pegged the number of users who suffered from this at 50%. Say what you like about Blu-ray, its players are rock solid stable when compared to that. The A2 and XA2 had numerous problems, including incompatibilities and bass management issues (still do). Go do a search for the movies Hollywoodland or Children of Men, error message, and XA2 on AVSFORUM and tell me what you find. ;) Ha, stable indeed. My PS3 has been far superior to either the XA2 I bought in Feb or the A1 I bought last April a week before the official launch of HD DVD.
2) One could say the same about HD DVD and lossless audio. Blu-ray has lossless audio (LPCM, Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD MA) on most of its discs. HD DVD has lossless audio on some of its releases (every one of which is WB (excepting Universal's only foray into lossless: End of Days), Dolby TrueHD with dialogue normalization which degrades sound quality). DD+ is just DD with the ability to go as high as 1.5 mbits, not that it actually has to. All WB discs come out with 640k tracks just like their 640k Blu-ray releases. At the same bitrates, DD and DD+ are identical. Laziness is in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I find the PS3 upgrading to 1080p24, excellent DVD upconversion, SACD playback capability, and having Dolby TrueHD in addition to LPCM (uncompressed audio) makes it far more capable than the toshiba HD-XA2 that has been promising to add 1080p24 for six months and still promises to take a few months more to add it. Yes, that same feature Sony added in the time it took Toshiba to fix disc incompatibilities with its player. Ironic, given that Toshiba is the only manufacturer of HD DVD players available today. Yes, even the 360 add-on was developed by toshiba.
3) Dolby TrueHD. I can't tell if you're lying and hoping no one will notice or if you're just that ignorant. Dolby TrueHD is required on every HD DVD player, true enough. Dolby TrueHD 2.0 is required to be decoded on every HD DVD player. Yes, that's right. Not 5.1. Not surround. Just Dolby TrueHD stereo. That's part of the spec. Why do you think all those DD+ tracks aren't Dolby TrueHD tracks? Because WB and Paramount and Universal (the only major companies even supporting HD DVD) know that at any moment a player could come out that doesn't support but TrueHD 2.0 and then SUDDENLY their discs would be stereo-only. Thus, they have to support for now and all time because Toshiba was too shortsighted to require a truly lossless 5.1 format be universally compatible with its players. Meanwhile, Blu-ray supported LPCM from day 1 at 5.1. HD DVD couldn't afford to do the same because it simplyd oesn't have the space. And about discs... well, it's been said above and it bears repeating. No, the HD DVD discs do not require TrueHD. That's just wrong (or it's a lie). Anyone with even one Paramount HD DVD would know better. Don't own the format you're espousing, eh?
4) It's all where you put your focus. If you think watching a PiP is cool and whizz-bang for that all of once you watch it, then yes HD DVD is superior (for now). If you think lossless audio and higher bit-rate encoded discs with all the same codec choices as the competition (but again at higher rates improving quality for us with large screens and projectors) are more important than extra advanced features you'll use once, then guess what? Blu-ray's superior. Were some of the early discs ...early? Sure. Blu-ray launched 5 months too early. By the time of their real launch (whent he PS3 came out), their titles had matured, their encoding processes had matured, and their encoders had matured to the point they are at today. Where Disney/BVHE and Sony are releasing some of the best high def movies today and many of the same WB encodes that were being lauded as cutting edge are now dismissed for having low-bitrates that are totally unnecessary on discs with the appropriate amount of space.

Take a look at Crank, Apocalypto, POTC 1 or 2, and see it for yourself. Blu-ray's surpassed HD DVD's quality. Anyone with both knows this is true and anyone who tells you otherwise has an agenda. And that's the truth.