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Niot
06-03-07, 07:50 PM
I'm getting a set of MB/CPU/Video/Ram this month, can anyone recommend the best performance/cost ratio? My budget 900 dollars maximum. (excluding tax)

Right now I'm thinking

E6600
Gigabyte 965P DS3
Evga Geforce 8800GTS
2G OCZ platinum DDR800 Rev2

But if I can downgrade the cpu and motherboard, I can get a better video card, say

Gigabyte 965P S3
E6320
Evga Geforce 8800GTS KO ACS

But the problem is that the OC models from all manufactures seem to cost significantly higher than the stock models. So is it worth it going for the OC models?

CaptNKILL
06-03-07, 09:27 PM
I'm getting a set of MB/CPU/Video/Ram this month, can anyone recommend the best performance/cost ratio? My budget 900 dollars maximum. (excluding tax)

Right now I'm thinking

E6600
Gigabyte 965P DS3
Evga Geforce 8800GTS
2G OCZ platinum DDR800 Rev2

But if I can downgrade the cpu and motherboard, I can get a better video card, say

Gigabyte 965P S3
E6320
Evga Geforce 8800GTS KO ACS

But the problem is that the OC models from all manufactures seem to cost significantly higher than the stock models. So is it worth it going for the OC models?
I'd go with the first setup. An E6600 with a good motherboard and some DDR2-800 is about the best price\performance setup you can get.

A lower end CPU will require much faster ram to get a good stable overclock, and in the end its actually more expensive (and it robably runs hotter at lower clocks).

The OC models of cards aren't really worth it IMO. Any card can be overclocked a little bit, and I doubt it makes a whole lot of difference anyway. Definitely not as much difference as an extra 200 to 600mhz on your CPU.

Are you looking at getting a 640Mb GTS or a 320Mb?

MUYA
06-03-07, 10:10 PM
I'm getting a set of MB/CPU/Video/Ram this month, can anyone recommend the best performance/cost ratio? My budget 900 dollars maximum. (excluding tax)

Right now I'm thinking

Gigabyte 965P S3


I think your choices are good but the mobo maybe? You should think about the Gigabyte P35-DSR ? that a bearlake mobo and overclocks like crazy! Bearlake because, they support Penryn, 45nm Intel chippies!

Vr-Zone and anandtech I think got the G35-DSR mobo to do 500MHZ fsb!!! Then it doesn't matter if the cpu you have has a lower multiplier setting than the higher priced ones.. lower multipler X around 500Mhz overclocking!! :)

Niot
06-03-07, 10:11 PM
I'd go with the first setup. An E6600 with a good motherboard and some DDR2-800 is about the best price\performance setup you can get.

A lower end CPU will require much faster ram to get a good stable overclock, and in the end its actually more expensive (and it robably runs hotter at lower clocks).

The OC models of cards aren't really worth it IMO. Any card can be overclocked a little bit, and I doubt it makes a whole lot of difference anyway. Definitely not as much difference as an extra 200 to 600mhz on your CPU.

Are you looking at getting a 640Mb GTS or a 320Mb?

I'm getting the 640 MB version.

Now I think I have a better option with the video cards. I can get the

E6600
Gigabe 965P DS3
2GB OCZ DDR800 Titanium Rev2
BFG 8800GTS OC2

for the same price.

The BFG card has the exact same performance as the EVGA KO card, except for a 50 mhz increase in shader clock, but the BFG card is 40 dollars cheaper, plus the 30 dollar mail in rebate which EVGA doesn't have. So that's nearly 70 dollars cheaper. And does anyone know how evga lists their specs? Their spec sheet on their site appears to be a shot of the back of their box, which says 1.4 ghz shader clock, while BFG says 1350 MHZ. Could it be that EVGA is rounding the number up, where their card is the exact same as the BFG?

Another thing is that I heard that the E6600 isn't the most cost effective processor today, is that true?

Niot
06-03-07, 10:15 PM
I think your choices are good but the mobo maybe? You should think about the Gigabyte P35-DSR ? that a bearlake mobo and overclocks like crazy! Bearlake because, they support Penryn, 45nm Intel chippies!

Vr-Zone and anandtech I think got the G35-DSR mobo to do 500MHZ fsb!!! Then it doesn't matter if the cpu you have has a lower multiplier setting than the higher priced ones.. lower multipler X around 500Mhz overclocking!! :)

That board you are talking about is about is 50 dollars more than the one I picked (the DS3). I'm planning to use the computer for 2-3 years, then I'm getting an entire new computer because all of the other parts in the PC will be too old to keep.

And another thing, is a good 450W psu enough to sustain all of these parts?

MUYA
06-03-07, 10:28 PM
That board you are talking about is about is 50 dollars more than the one I picked (the DS3). I'm planning to use the computer for 2-3 years, then I'm getting an entire new computer because all of the other parts in the PC will be too old to keep.

And another thing, is a good 450W psu enough to sustain all of these parts?
That is exactly why I reccomend the bearlake one because it is more future proof than the 965 mobo. The bearlakes support 45nm chip!!! These Penryn chips are faster and more power efficient than present day conroes! Add they will remain in production for at least a few years!!! So right now a conroe, next year a penryn to extend your systems usable lifespan!

S.W.A.T.
06-03-07, 10:49 PM
i also had only $900 max to spend lol but i spend $1200 borrowed $300 :)
well i bought the rig in my sig :) without the hdd. it works perfect while everything is on stock, did not have to oc anything :) everything runs on max :) if i wanna run future games i just o my cpu to 2.8 and it will be good.


btw the 8800gts 640mb and 320mb have no difference, buy 640mb only if u wanna run something on very high resolution. i run every game on 1280x1024 and its perfect.


What resolution do u play games on???

Niot
06-03-07, 10:50 PM
That is exactly why I reccomend the bearlake one because it is more future proof than the 965 mobo. The bearlakes support 45nm chip!!! These Penryn chips are faster and more power efficient than present day conroes! Add they will remain in production for at least a few years!!! So right now a conroe, next year a penryn to extend your systems usable lifespan!
But I think I'll be getting an entire new system by then.

Because I found that all of the parts of the computer, even the case, age with time, so by a couple of years later, it will be too old to "upgrade", so then I'm going to get a new computer altogether. So I wouldn't be planning on upgrading this one.

So do you know about the PSU problem? I use the
FSP AX450-PN (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16817104954)

S.W.A.T.
06-03-07, 10:55 PM
But I think I'll be getting an entire new system by then.

Because I found that all of the parts of the computer, even the case, age with time, so by a couple of years later, it will be too old to "upgrade", so then I'm going to get a new computer altogether. So I wouldn't be planning on upgrading this one.

So do you know about the PSU problem? I use the
FSP AX450-PN (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16817104954)


u will need a new PSU. look for 500w with 32A under +12v

Niot
06-03-07, 10:59 PM
i also had only $900 max to spend lol but i spend $1200 borrowed $300 :)
well i bought the rig in my sig :) without the hdd. it works perfect while everything is on stock, did not have to oc anything :) everything runs on max :) if i wanna run future games i just o my cpu to 2.8 and it will be good.


btw the 8800gts 640mb and 320mb have no difference, buy 640mb only if u wanna run something on very high resolution. i run every game on 1280x1024 and its perfect.


What resolution do u play games on???

I play games on 1280*1024. But as I said I will be using the system for 2 years at least, 3 at most. And the most I can do in this time is some OCing and perhaps another 2GB of ram. So even though the 320MB is enough for games today it might not be for games in the future.

Niot
06-03-07, 11:06 PM
u will need a new PSU. look for 500w with 32A under +12v
But BFG said the minimum requirement is 425W, so I got a 25W extra. And they assumed that you have a X6800 processor, which mine is a lot weaker. I only have one optical drive, a sound blaster, 3 80mm case fans, a floppy drive and that's it.

And the Extreme PSU calculator said I only need a 382 watt supply after I factored in 100 processor TDP and 20 percent for the aging of the psu.

Does anyone else here have a similar setup to the one I'm going to get and a similar psu?

S.W.A.T.
06-03-07, 11:37 PM
But BFG said the minimum requirement is 425W, so I got a 25W extra. And they assumed that you have a X6800 processor, which mine is a lot weaker. I only have one optical drive, a sound blaster, 3 80mm case fans, a floppy drive and that's it.

And the Extreme PSU calculator said I only need a 382 watt supply after I factored in 100 processor TDP and 20 percent for the aging of the psu.

Does anyone else here have a similar setup to the one I'm going to get and a similar psu?


yeh but under your PSU it says +12v 18A and that will not be enough for your new computer.
u need atleast 28A under +12v. open your case and look at your PSU and see what it says. if its +28A under +12 then u are fine but if its less then u need a new PSU.

here is an example.
this PSU has 16A
http://www.overclockers.com/articles1034/PSU%20label.jpg

u need something like this for your new pc. except it can be 450w.

http://www.maximumoc.com/img/hardware/pcpowerandcooling_turbocool510/label.jpg

Niot
06-03-07, 11:41 PM
yeh but under your PSU it says +12v 18A and that will not be enough for your new computer.
u need atleast 28A under +12v. open your case and look at your PSU and see what it says. if its +28A under +12 then u are fine but if its less then u need a new PSU.
No, it's a dual rail PSU, see where it says 12V1 and 12V2 all at 18A? It means that it's 36A at 12V.

S.W.A.T.
06-03-07, 11:44 PM
No, it's a dual rail PSU, see where it says 12V1 and 12V2 all at 18A? It means that it's 36A at 12V.
hmm my is also like that and still says +32A and +12A on other +12.

ok.

buffbiff21
06-04-07, 02:12 AM
No, it's a dual rail PSU, see where it says 12V1 and 12V2 all at 18A? It means that it's 36A at 12V.
That's not what it means. You don't add rails. Divide Wattage supplied to the 12v rails by 12 and you get the amperage.

buffbiff21
06-04-07, 02:14 AM
Another thing is that I heard that the E6600 isn't the most cost effective processor today, is that true?
Absolute BS.

E6600 is the best "all around" period for money and performance capabilities.

also like someone said, you don't want to "downgrade" the CPU/mainboard to get a marketing gimmick known as a superclocked GPU. Just overclock it yourself, and spend more on a CPU that will net you a more safe bet in terms of performance increase due to a higher multiplier.

Jon
06-04-07, 05:24 AM
I'm sure there are plenty of people happy with the DS3... but having just got myself the DS3P (which I believe is identical except for the capacitors used and even has matching bios fixes), I can't recommend it. I have had nothing but problems with the Gigabyte board and have found forum threads dedicated to problems with these boards.

john19055
06-04-07, 10:40 AM
No IMO it is not worth paying for a factory overclock 8800GTS ,since all the plain 8800GTS will overclock great,just make sure to get a 640mb 8800GTS since it will run games better at higher resolution and high FSAA .The two Evga 640mb 8800GTS that I have will overclock to 650 /2000.

Niot
06-04-07, 04:45 PM
That's not what it means. You don't add rails. Divide Wattage supplied to the 12v rails by 12 and you get the amperage.

That was not what I was told.

So can you give me the formula for figuring out my amperage? Thanks.

I'm sure there are plenty of people happy with the DS3... but having just got myself the DS3P (which I believe is identical except for the capacitors used and even has matching bios fixes), I can't recommend it. I have had nothing but problems with the Gigabyte board and have found forum threads dedicated to problems with these boards.

Actually I have the same experience with ASUS and that's why I switched to Gigabyte. Every ASUS product I had broke down in a year, their RMA process took a month, then I got a refurbished product and then broke down three months later. Same with their DVD burner, same with their videocard. But the gigabyte motherboard I have now works perfectly, having my a64 oced by 400mhz. So I generally trust gigabyte and consider ASUS to be the BOSE in the computer industry.

Niot
06-04-07, 04:50 PM
So I shouldn't get factory overclocked cards right? But if I OC my own card don't I need a new cooler and more thermal paste that will cost more money and time? And many manufactures don't have warranties if you modded your video card (ie, installed a new cooler). Because I always feel the 8800GTS is kind of weak and want to improve it, and overclocking seems to improve the performance of G80s by a lot.

But if I already can get the E6600 with the BFG oced card, not getting an OC card won't upgrade me to the 6700 either.

And about the BFG mail in rebate, when does their offer expire? Like is it still good for purchases made in this month?

buffbiff21
06-04-07, 05:43 PM
That was not what I was told.

So can you give me the formula for figuring out my amperage? Thanks.
already told you:
Divide Wattage supplied to the 12v rails by 12 and you get the amperage.
Your PSU should list this on either a sticker on the box or in the manual.

So I shouldn't get factory overclocked cards right?
Right.

But if I OC my own card don't I need a new cooler and more thermal paste that will cost more money and time?
No, they OC perfectly fine with stock cooling. Just set the onboard fan to 100%.

And many manufactures don't have warranties if you modded your video card (ie, installed a new cooler).
EVGA does.

Because I always feel the 8800GTS is kind of weak and want to improve it, and overclocking seems to improve the performance of G80s by a lot.
1. 8800GTS is NOT weak.
2. Overclocking the CPU improves performance by a lot while using G80 cards. OCing the GPU is just as easy.

But if I already can get the E6600 with the BFG oced card, not getting an OC card won't upgrade me to the 6700 either.
Don't bother with an E6700. E6600 is perfect.

Niot
06-04-07, 05:51 PM
So the factory OCed cards all use the same cooling system as the stock versions? They why didn't they OC every one of their cards? I thought that the OCed cards come with a more powerful cooler, so that's why they can be OCed.

buffbiff21
06-04-07, 06:05 PM
So the factory OCed cards all use the same cooling system as the stock versions? They why didn't they OC every one of their cards? I thought that the OCed cards come with a more powerful cooler, so that's why they can be OCed.
The factory OC cards are binned by the manufacturer and are guaranteed to overclock to whatever frequency specified. They don't alter the cooling (except for EVGA's ASC3 cards). And they don't OC each and every one because it would take too much time for what it's worth. However you are 99% likely to get a non-factory-OC card that will overclock just as well as a factory OC one. Trust me. ;)

Niot
06-04-07, 11:27 PM
Apparently the BFG OC card is only 20 dollars more than the non OC. I think I'll get the OC one then to save the trouble. Do OC cards require more power? My PSU that I have listed above is enough for the BFG OC card right? It has a 29 AMP 12V rail.

BFG says 425 Watt, if it is enough then it's enough, there isn't the problem of being "borderline" right?

Niot
06-05-07, 07:12 PM
I found a better place to buy the card, so I'll be getting the stock EVGA card.

Now I have some money left over, what else can I upgrade?

Should I get


Gigabyte P35C DS3R

or

another 2 GB of memory

or

One of those Ram that run above 800 MHZ?

or something else?