Windows XP and OSX

[zoomy942]

So, I dopnt know much about Apple PC's, but I'm aware that a person can dual boot into XP on an apple PC.

can this be reversed? Install OSX on a Windows XP machine?

I have an HP Tablet for example.

[evilghost]

No, not legally.

[nekrosoft13]

it can be done, but like ghost said, not legally

[radekhulan]

Why would you need to install it? There are 100.000 apps for Windows, and 1.000 for OS X. Mac user desperately need Windows, but not vice versa. For Windows user, OS X does not offer any added value. Simplified, you use OS to run apps (office, internet, graphics, games, video, tools), and Windows is way better for that ;-)

OS X is also really obsolete OS, upcomming Leopard (10.5) tries to catch with Windows Vista by adding transparency, x64 (but only partial, Carbon will be still 32-bit), integrated RSS reader, and some small silly stuff. Still same slow Finder, stupid app windows that cannot be resized by dragging any part of the window, silly colored top 3 "dots" instead of meaningful icons (minimize, maximize, resize, close), obsolete Dock that shows running apps only by using very small icon on them, horrible single menu for all apps, so that you cannot see and use two menus at the same time (have to active the app first, wait for the menu to appear, and go with your mouse to top to select an item), truly horrible app launcher (Start menu in Windows with Desktop Search is so much better) and other "goodies".

Apple has brilliant marketing (for kids), but their products truly suck (for adults). Steve Jobs is one big lie. Do not buy Apple products. Do not even steal their SW. It is not worth the effort..

[evilghost]

Why would you need to install it? There are 100.000 apps for Windows, and 1.000 for OS X. Mac user desperately need Windows, but not vice versa. For Windows user, OS X does not offer any added value. Simplified, you use OS to run apps (office, internet, graphics, games, video, tools), and Windows is way better for that ;-)

OS X is also really obsolete OS, upcomming Leopard (10.5) tries to catch Windows Vista with transparency, x64 (but only partial, Carbon will be still 32-bit), integrated RSS reader, and some small silly stuff.

Apple has brilliant marketing (for kids), but their products truly suck (for adults). Steve Jobs is one big lie. Do not buy Apple products. Do not even steal their SW. It is not worth the effort..

What? No one desperately needs Windows.

I can see where you get your inflated numbers from, according to Kaspersky, their AV Definitions in the extended antivirus databases currently contain 349215 records so perhaps the volume of compatible software you've listed contains all the joyous malware and shovelware Windows users come to expect.

Have you even used OS X? Linux? BSD?

[radekhulan]

Have you even used OS X? Linux? BSD?

Yes. I love Windows Vista because I owned PowerBook (with OS X 10.2) and iBook, and because I use Linux for 8+ years.

My dev environment includes Vista, XP and Fedora 7 virtualized, plus running Solaris at work:

http://radekhulan.cz/img/vmware6/th_vmware6-full.jpg (http://radekhulan.cz/img/vmware6/vmware6-full.jpg)

Linux is fine for servers. OS X sucks for everything, this truly obsolete and half-stolen OS is for people with washed brains. I made a mistake myself buying it, anybody can make a mistake, but I will never ever repeat it.

OS X is also really obsolete OS, upcomming Leopard (10.5) tries to catch with Windows Vista by adding transparency, x64 (but only partial, Carbon will be still 32-bit), integrated RSS reader, and some small silly stuff. Still same slow Finder, stupid app windows that cannot be resized by dragging any part of the window, silly colored top 3 "dots" instead of meaningful icons (minimize, maximize, resize, close), obsolete Dock that shows running apps only by using very small icon on them, horrible single menu for all apps, so that you cannot see and use two menus at the same time (have to active the app first, wait for the menu to appear, and go with your mouse to top to select an item), truly horrible app launcher (Start menu in Windows with Desktop Search is so much better) and other "goodies".

As for viruses, they do not exist (for smart people). I do not download warez, I do not click on BigTits.exe in my mailbox, I do not use antivirus and/or antispyware for 5+ years, and no virus ever (tried online scan). I have a brain...

[evilghost]

Vista is more crippled than RH 6.2, I'm amazed you tout the latest rush-to-distribution public-beta as your desktop OS of choice.

[radekhulan]

Vista is more crippled than RH 6.2, I'm amazed you tout the latest rush-to-distribution public-beta as your desktop OS of choice.

When I was a teenager I loved Linux. Being "free" and "open-source" and all that silly stuff. Loved compiling my kernel. I also purchased Apple, to be "different". Now, being 34, I have grown up to love .. quality. Thus I use Windows (Vista) and Linux only virtualized ;-)

This is history: http://radekhulan.cz/?item=compile-from-source-apache-2-0-52-with-ssl-php-5-0-2-and-mysql-4-1-7-on-linux

Linux is much easier than Windows ("yum install mc" or "apt-get install mc"), but I can learn, thus I can use Windows and be more productive :-)

[nekrosoft13]

As for viruses, they do not exist (for smart people). I do not download warez, I do not click on BigTits.exe in my mailbox, I do not use antivirus and/or antispyware for 5+ years, and no virus ever (tried online scan). I have a brain...

last time i had a virus was back in 1996 or 97 when i used AOL for very short time.

[|MaguS|]

last time i had a virus was back in 1996 or 97 when i used AOL for very short time.

Hahaha you used AOL!

[ViN86]

Vista is more crippled than RH 6.2, I'm amazed you tout the latest rush-to-distribution public-beta as your desktop OS of choice.
:lol:

When I was a teenager I loved Linux. Being "free" and "open-source" and all that silly stuff. Loved compiling my kernel. I also purchased Apple, to be "different". Now, being 34, I have grown up to love .. quality. Thus I use Windows (Vista) and Linux only virtualized ;-)

This is history: http://radekhulan.cz/?item=compile-from-source-apache-2-0-52-with-ssl-php-5-0-2-and-mysql-4-1-7-on-linux

Linux is much easier than Windows ("yum install mc" or "apt-get install mc"), but I can learn, thus I can use Windows and be more productive :-)
:retard:

yea im not too keen on Vista atm. i will eventually move over. but that time has not yet come. i dont like the lack of security controls, or the changes they made to the GUI (XP was a great design, why change it?). i also dont like the DRM crap that they force on users. they serve the copyright holders rather than the consumers.

Hahaha you used AOL!
:rofl

[evilghost]

When I was a teenager I loved Linux. Being "free" and "open-source" and all that silly stuff. Loved compiling my kernel. I also purchased Apple, to be "different". Now, being 34, I have grown up to love .. quality. Thus I use Windows (Vista) and Linux only virtualized ;-)

This is history: http://radekhulan.cz/?item=compile-from-source-apache-2-0-52-with-ssl-php-5-0-2-and-mysql-4-1-7-on-linux

Linux is much easier than Windows ("yum install mc" or "apt-get install mc"), but I can learn, thus I can use Windows and be more productive :-)

I can't believe you associate Windows with quality... evidently as you grew older your expectations on quality decreased? ;)

Your English is very well composed especially if it isn't your native language and you're a true Czech native.

[evilghost]

last time i had a virus was back in 1996 or 97 when i used AOL for very short time.

With the current level of malware and it's rootkit style infection vectors if you were currently compromised you wouldn't know it without watching all your egress/ingress traffic very carefully unless it was some pathetic shovelware crafted by a 13 year old Malaysian.

This isn't an insult, this is fact, ask any security professional.

[radekhulan]

I can't believe you associate Windows with quality... evidently as you grew older your expectations on quality decreased? ;)

No, vice versa.

Show me a better text editor than UEStudio (http://www.ultraedit.com/index.php?name=Content&pid=150) (open-source jEdit is not bad, but requires Java), better IDE than Microsoft Visual Studio (KDevelop? well, there is Eclipse now), better email app / PIM than Outlook 2007 (noticed how Evolution / KMail tries to copy Outlook, but with little success?), better native audio/video codecs (forced using Windows DLLs in mplayer to play certain media?), better graphics app than Photoshop (yes, you can use Wine tu run it under Linux, but why not run it natively, under Windows?), better games than Oblivion, Gothic III, Supreme Commander (not having those on Linux?), better IM than Windows Live Messenger (can handle voice, text, video, app sharing, anything, no Jabber client comes close..), better Office suite then Office 2007 (OpenOffice is 10 years behind), better phone OS than Windows Mobile 6, better PC<->phone sync than Windows Mobile Sync, etc.

OS is not that important today, as long as it is stable. Apps are. And Windows have definitive advantage here, they are "the real thing".

This is quality, and having it everywhere (ie. synced on my HTC TyTN phone with Windows Mobile 6 via Bluetooth realtime):

http://radekhulan.cz/img/outlook/Microsoft_Outlook_2007.jpg (http://radekhulan.cz/img/outlook/Microsoft_Outlook_2007.png)

While this is Linux, trying to copy Microsoft quality, but not reaching it:

http://www.abclinuxu.cz/images/clanky/jelinek/pim-2-evolution-02.png

[evilghost]

I'll bite.

I've used UltraEdit many times in the past for it's line numbering, syntax highlighting, etc. Truthfully pico, vi, gedit, and notepad are all the same to me, no huge advantages to using UE. I'm quite proficient with gEdit.

Email/PIM: Thunderbird works quite well especially when coupled with a DAV server hosting an ICS for calendar collaboration. Outlook's "features" are a hindrance and the product has an insecure track record.

AV Codecs: The point here you're making is native. Of course playing a WMV/WMA file will require Win32 DLLs since it's a closed sourced system. However, I have no issues playing AVI or other FourCC codecs which Windows requires external codec packs. The argument here is a little moot since it's in the context of what's native. It's like knocking IIS because it can't run PHP without an ASAPI plugin.

Photoshop: Photoshop leads in the industry but comes with a hefty pricetag. GIMP is a fair alternative but isn't as feature rich.

Games? UT GOTY, 2003, 2004; Quake 1, 2, 3, 4; Freespace 2 Open; America's Army; Enemy Territory; etc.

IM: No real comments here as all my IM is over BitchX/Bitlbee.

Office: Office 2007 with it's creme-ribbons is a joke. How bloated does a word processor, slide creator, and spreadsheet need to be? OpenOffice is quite superior for it's lack of useless features and unnecessary GUI clutter. Using OpenOffice Presenter was pure ecstasy compared to Powerpoint.

[ViN86]

if Linux had the same driver support that Windows has, id be willing to bet that youd see higher quality in Linux.

i will say though, that for the most part, i do like the Windows environment.

[evilghost]

@HTPC sync; I used to have a Treo 650, never had issues with keeping my email synchronized. I run my own IMAP server.

[radekhulan]

Thunderbird is just a simple email client, not a PIM. I really started to love having things "integrated", ie. all my meetings, tasks, emails, notes in both PC (Outlook 2007) and Windows Mobile phone (Outlook Mobile).

With app integration and integration between PC and phone you are getting more productive.

Example: I receive an email from my client, and arrange a meeting with him. This appointment is automatically transfered to my HTC TyTN phone, including client contact address. I use TomTom 6 on my phone to navigate to client location, than write down meeting notes in OneNote Mobile (HTC TyTN has nice HW keyboard), and when I get back to office / home, all is synced to PC. I thus have my notes instantly in PC and can start coding or write a contract, based on these. Also, when on the road, I can read all my received / sent emails offline, as they are also automatically synced to HTC TyTN device.

This kind of stuff makes Windows totally superior to Linux (for me). Linux is several years behind, reminds me of Windows 2000 era. Many small independent apps with no integration at all. Linux is primitive, Windows productive.

[evilghost]

Productivity is subjective, while you may find that Windows enables you to be more productive I find the opposite to be true; it's evident that the demands of your career differ vastly from mine which require Linux to be proficient.

You do have some very valid points which is quite refreshing compared with other Win32/Linux conversations we've had.

[zoomy942]

wow. i ask an easy question and everyone brings their pitchforks:)

[six_storm]

Running OSX on an average PC is kinda obsolete since Boot Camp is out and users choosing sides (Windows or OSX). But if you can get it to work, let me know. I'd like to see how to does. I've always heard that its a hard process to do and the performance/stability isn't the same as using a real Mac.

To radekhulan, I think productivity comes down to opinion and "whatever floats your boat". OSX works for me, Windows works for you and Linux works for evilghost. Let's just stay on topic huh? :D

[Starscream]

horrible single menu for all apps, so that you cannot see and use two menus at the same time (have to active the app first, wait for the menu to appear, and go with your mouse to top to select an item), truly horrible app launcher (Start menu in Windows with Desktop Search is so much better) and other "goodies".

That is one of the things that annoys me most about the Mac OS.

[nekrosoft13]

Let's just stay on topic huh? :D

you can't really stay on topic, knowing Apple, if this topic gets any more detailed they will sue NVNews.

[zoomy942]

Running OSX on an average PC is kinda obsolete since Boot Camp is out and users choosing sides (Windows or OSX). But if you can get it to work, let me know. I'd like to see how to does. I've always heard that its a hard process to do and the performance/stability isn't the same as using a real Mac.

To radekhulan, I think productivity comes down to opinion and "whatever floats your boat". OSX works for me, Windows works for you and Linux works for evilghost. Let's just stay on topic huh? :D


i'll poke around the inter-wibble for information about it.

who knows, it just might work.

[evilghost]

who knows, it just might work.

'Tis unlawful.

http://www.chronicles-network.com/gallery/data/502/medium/Judge_Dredd_Prosthetic_Make-Up_01B.jpg