View Full Version : nforce2 AGPgart and linux
hi,
has anyone heard anything if nvidia will come up with a kernel module or support (open specs) for the linux apggart?
it is no fun having a fast card (ati) running as standard vga-card in X ;)
greets
Kiamu
Andy Mecham
04-02-03, 03:14 PM
We're aware of this, and hope to have a solution soon.
--andy
Yes i was about to ask the same. Would it really be that difficult to do, since the code is already there (in your gfx drivers, no?)?
Or perhaps we will never see an AGP module since that allow NForce1/2 owners to use other cards then NVidia's...
What would this solution be? 1. Providing specs to the linux agpgart maintainer. 2. Ripping the nvagp from the nVidia video drivers and making it work with non-nVidia cards. 3. Sell my nForce2 motherboard.
Originally posted by Andy Mecham
We're aware of this, and hope to have a solution soon.
--andy
derm123
04-05-03, 05:16 AM
Originally posted by Andy Mecham
We're aware of this, and hope to have a solution soon.
--andy
I'm in the market for a new motherboard, my abit KT7 is on its last legs. The only thing stopping me from getting a nforce2 board is this AGPGART problem.
I've got a ATI 7500 graphics card and I see no reason to upgrade. I will not buy a board with compatability issues !
Originally posted by Andy Mecham
We're aware of this, and hope to have a solution soon.
--andy
i'm in the same boat as the others here. My old motherboard is not going to recognize any of the new K7's i think, plus it's the slow version of the KT266 chipset. If the AGP, the APIC and the hardware monitoring works, it'd be a completely worthwhile drop-in upgrade for me, and i suspect also for lots of other linux folks.
If the AGPGART works then for one video would work, as in playing DVD's, and that might be more important for people than games. Does the MTRR work?
i use gimp to work on big image files sized around 37meg (highest rez i can get out of a 35mm slide) and the memory bandwidth of the nforce2 chipset would make the manipulations go fast.
m
Mason, to my knowledge the kt266 should support the Athlon XP that use a 266MHz FSB. Heck, even some kt133a support Athlon XP's as the kt133a does also have an effective 266MHz bus.
With my nForce2 board, the APIC doesn't quite work. It works fine with WinXP. I see 2x+ IRQs. With the stock 2.4.21-pre6 kernel, IO-APIC doesn't even get detected. Using the latest 2.4.21-pre6 ACPI patch, I am able to get IO-APIC, however, for IRQs higher than 15, the PCI IRQ routing simply doesn't work. Someone has posted to the acpi-devel list, but there hasn't been a response to it yet. With some of ACPI's core developers working for Intel, I doubt this is high on their priority to fix PCI IRQ routing on a chipset designed for its rival AMD.
gambit:~> cat /proc/mtrr
reg00: base=0x00000000 ( 0MB), size= 512MB: write-back, count=1
reg01: base=0xd0000000 (3328MB), size= 128MB: write-combining, count=1
reg02: base=0xd8000000 (3456MB), size= 64MB: write-combining, count=1
MTRR is detected and looks to work.
The GIMP loads up, but I haven't had it open anything large.
I've not tried watching DVDs on Linux on the nForce2 system. I doubt that it will work since I can't even play MPEGs. It looks like without agpgart, XVideo extension doesn't work properly.
Thanks for the run down on these things, suexec.
Not to beat a dead horse, but i don't understand how it's in nVidia's interest to withhold specs for these things that let their product interface with third party hardware and/or broaden the utility of their product. After all they are implementations of pubicized standards.
The linux kernel developers are a competent bunch and their work wouldn't reflect badly on nVidia hardware, nor would those guys need nVidia driver writers to hold their hand every time there's a problem down the road.
Granted the linux world is small in comparison to that of Windows. Linux and linux guys do tend to be in some influential places tho. The analogy might be to the audience of the original Star Trek series. They were tiny in number compared to general viewership, but after the show was shut down the network realized that these were exactly the people who made public opinion and influenced spending habits.
m
Originally posted by derm123
I've got a ATI 7500 graphics card and I see no reason to upgrade. I will not buy a board with compatability issues ! But the nf2's onboard gfx is faster than a R7500 ;)
Heh I registered to ask this exact same question.
In future (i.e. shortly) will the AGPgart be working for non NVidia cards? I'm about to upgrade my system, but not the gfx card (gf2 mx) so this issue wont effect me yet, but I don't want to get a motherboard that locks me to a certain make of gfx?
Also will it be GPL and be able to be compiled into the kernel? As only having the option of installing it as a module would suck seeing as it would be in use all the time!
Otherwise Ill have little choice other to go with the KT400, which is a shame as reviews and friends experiance indicate its not as good :(
Thanks
Originally posted by Zeus
But the nf2's onboard gfx is faster than a R7500 ;)
But having the freedom to choose gives peace of mind.
No problems mason.
I had done some research before purchasing my nForce2 board (A7N8X Deluxe). I have pretty much most things working except for the agp. AGP is an open standard so I assumed it would be supported by agpgart. Only after purchasing it and playing with it did I realize this was not the case. I googled and realized even nforce1 didn't have support in agpgart. But then, with nforce1, one did not have a choice of not having integrated video.
I've emailed the agpgart maintainer and got a response back. I don't intend to quote him, but what he basically said was that he has tried to contact nVidia for specs, but his emails have been ignored.
After my runins with the nForce2, when some of my co-workers wanted to upgrade their systems, I steered them away from nForce2. As such, they are able to game since they bought KT333 boards instead.
If nVidia decides to continue to do nothing, it just means I plus people I have influence won't be buying nVidia.
People in the minority (especially those who choose to be so) usually are more vocal.
ldimmu, I only regestered a few days ago for the same reason :)
I really hope the forum moderator can make a official response for nVidia about our questions. Some questions, nVidia can't answer...like the part on agpgart working, but nVidia does influence its outcome. The agpgart maintainer(s) can't do much if they don't have anything to work with.
The KT400a does appear to be better than KT400, but still doesn't compare up to the nForce2. Then again, there are rumours of a KT600. I wonder what enhancements it would have.
Andy and volt; is there anything we can do to help make this happen? i don't want merely to natter from the peanut gallery and give linux users a bad name. After all being proactive (in a calm and useful manner) is part of the philosophy behind the open source movement and linux.
i'm not much interested in games except as an occasional diversion, but i do manage approx. eight servers, all linux, and have a continuing interest in stable hardware with good bang for the dollar. i've been using linux as servers and routers for about nine years.
When Athlon64 hits the streets i expect AthlonXP will become good buys, that's when i'll be looking at replacing the guts to many of our boxes. --i already have an nForce2 motherboard on order, but so far am holding off on installing it.
m
yepp, like suexec said:
I have pretty much most things working except for the agp. AGP is an open standard so I assumed it would be supported by agpgart. Only after purchasing it and playing with it did I realize this was not the case.
and i am pretty disappointed by this. i do understand to have binary drivers for graphic cards. but trying the same for a mobo will fail utterly IMHO.
even the network card should be pretty much near the standard. why having a precompiled module there too?
well, i still have problems with the board (AOpen AK79D-1394) concerning memory timing (5-2-2-2) under heavy load. but i blame it on the bios. (need to update that one ;) )
Hmm, everything I've read doesn't look to promising..
Well, the performance gain from upgrading from a 466 Celeron to a high end XP will be so high, any difference between a kt400 and nf2 chipset wouldn't really be noticed.
I think I've made my decision now :(
Andy Mecham
04-06-03, 04:24 PM
Yes, we're aware of this, and we're looking into it. Unfortunately, I don't have a timeline for a solution right now - as soon as I do, i'll post it here.
--andy
Hm. If this is like the other motherboard bits i've looked up then the AGPGART and APIC bits will hew pretty close to some published implementation. If that's so it won't be so difficult for the kernel guys to put in support for this chipset. Does that mean it's a political issue within the nVidia org, or perhaps a legal problem?
Anyway if there's anything we can do from the outside to help, let us know.
m
nitromullet
04-07-03, 03:20 AM
Originally posted by Idimmu
Hmm, everything I've read doesn't look to promising..
Well, the performance gain from upgrading from a 466 Celeron to a high end XP will be so high, any difference between a kt400 and nf2 chipset wouldn't really be noticed.
I think I've made my decision now :(
I think that you are probably right in terms of your percieved performance, but there are other things to consider that make this whole issue more complicated.
First of all, if you are going to run a dual boot box, you will probably absolutely love an nForce2 based motherboard under Windows. The Sound Storm audio on my Asus A7N8X Deluxe is so good that I haven't bothered to re-install my SB Audigy. On top of this, the board is ROCK STABLE, which I can not say about the KT333 based mother board that it replaced. On the other hand, you have all of the issues mentioned previously in this forum under Linux. So, it is serioulsy a real problem that we AMD/Linux users are faced with in regards to this AGP/GART problem, and the responses from nVidia are not exactly informative.
I personally opted for the nForce2 based board because it offers an excellent price/feature/performance ratio. Also, nVidia has a pretty good track record for supporting Linux and I don't think that they will let us down, but only time will tell.
Just my two cents to help make your decision a bit more difficult :)
-nitromullet
Originally posted by Kiamu
hi,
has anyone heard anything if nvidia will come up with a kernel module or support (open specs) for the linux apggart?
it is no fun having a fast card (ati) running as standard vga-card in X ;)
greets
Kiamu
=======================================
The view from way down here :firedevil
nvidia has a good name in my book. i bought this A7N8X Deluxe on blind faith(and reviews. :D ). i can't get my 9500 Pro to work but i will continue to keep the faith. i don't understand the reasoning for non-gpl but i guess there has to be a reason. just get it out as soon as it's stable.....Thanks nvidia
Originally posted by suexec
I've not tried watching DVDs on Linux on the nForce2 system. I doubt that it will work since I can't even play MPEGs. It looks like without agpgart, XVideo extension doesn't work properly.
Forgot to ask: Good old 2D accel works, just like in a PCI graphics card, is that right?
m
Originally posted by mason
Forgot to ask: Good old 2D accel works, just like in a PCI graphics card, is that right?
m
2D works fine. I haven't notice it snag. It felt snappier than in XP (with default drivers). Once I installed Catalyst drivers, it was fine.
Thanks suexec; sounds good.
i've had my cheapo nForce2 motherboard (the MSI no frills one, K7N2) for a couple days now and i've been trying to figure out if i should put it in or return it.
Well it's a pretty red colour.
-- i thot the Epox one would be cheaper but here in Montreal it's very expensive.
Also looked up the CPU compatibility list for this KT266 motherboard i'd change out if i actually go ahead with it, and it's compatible up to the Palomino CPU. Says it's not compatible with T'bred and up.
m
nitromullet
04-10-03, 02:10 AM
Originally posted by mason
Thanks suexec; sounds good.
i've had my cheapo nForce2 motherboard (the MSI no frills one, K7N2) for a couple days now and i've been trying to figure out if i should put it in or return it.
Well it's a pretty red colour.
-- i thot the Epox one would be cheaper but here in Montreal it's very expensive.
Also looked up the CPU compatibility list for this KT266 motherboard i'd change out if i actually go ahead with it, and it's compatible up to the Palomino CPU. Says it's not compatible with T'bred and up.
m
...two things on this, just my opinion:
1) if you're going to get an nForce2 board, get one with the Sound Storm sound build in. The Asus A7N8X isn't the cheapest board on the block, but it has the onboard Sound Storm, 2 NIC's (one nVidia and one 3com), and includes S-ATA which currently is not very useful but might be nice to have as these drives become more common.
2) if you're going to opt for the VIA chipset, get at least a KT333 if not a KT400. The KT400 will support all of the T-bred and Barton chips.
I also have the Xserver running in 2D mode just fine with the A7N8X and a 9700 Pro, so this is certainly doable, but no 3D until nVidia does something about the AGP/GART situation. :(
-nitromullet
I too have a A7N8X (Deluxe). Only the deluxe has the SATA, FireWire, SoundStorm, dual NICs, etc.
The initial incarnation of SATA doesn't allow for daisy chaining. I believe SATA 2 has this in its design. But then 1394/FireWire already supports daisy chaining.
If going with Via, skip the KT400 and stick with either the KT333 or KT400a.
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